Adam Toledo video released

[Derec]

This version (not played on MSM of course) is particularly good because it shows what led up to the shooting, including when Adam Toledo and Ruben Roman were firing a handgun in the street. It also shows how little time elapsed (~800 ms) between the last frame where the handgun is clearly visible in Adam's hand and when the officer shot his gun.


Will Chicago now burn too?

 

[none]

"he's got a gun! "
"show me the gun"
bang

 

[Derec]

"he's got a gun! "
"show me the gun"
bang

He should have dropped that gun as soon as he saw the police. Instead, he ran with the gun and waited until the very last second to drop it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[none]

"he's got a gun! "
"show me the gun"
bang

He should have dropped that gun as soon as he saw the police. Instead, he ran with the gun and waited until the very last second to drop it. Stupid.

is that state law?

 

[Derec]

is that state law?

Is what state law? Shooting at passing cars? Running with a gun?

I know that finite reaction times are a biological fact, never mind state laws.

 

[none]

is that state law?

Is what state law? Shooting at passing cars? Running with a gun?

I know that finite reaction times are a biological fact, never mind state laws.

He should have dropped that gun as soon as he saw the police. Instead, he ran with the gun and waited until the very last second to drop it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

no, is this^ comment you made state law?

 

[Derec]

no, is this comment you made state law?

By definition, forum comments are not state law. What's your point?

 

[J842P]

He should have dropped that gun as soon as he saw the police. Instead, he ran with the gun and waited until the very last second to drop it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

no, is this^ comment you made state law?

Well, evading arrest and not complying with orders like that are almost certainly against state law.

 

[untermensche]

is that state law?

Is what state law? Shooting at passing cars? Running with a gun?

I know that finite reaction times are a biological fact, never mind state laws.

The problem is hand guns.

Get rid of them and very few 13 year olds will have them.

 

[none]

He should have dropped that gun as soon as he saw the police. Instead, he ran with the gun and waited until the very last second to drop it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

no, is this^ comment you made state law?

Well, evading arrest and not complying with orders like that are almost certainly against state law.

arrest? when did that take place?

 

[TV and credit cards]

The problem is hand guns.

Get rid of them and very few 13 year olds will have them.

Yes, the problem is a nation awash in guns. I’m not saying nothing can be done but for all intents and purposes, nothing can be done.

 

[zorq]

I don't understand what Derec is so excited about. The kid obeyed all the orders the officer shouted.

Officer: "Police, Stop!" ->Kid is fully stoped within 2 seconds.
"Stop Right now!" -> Kid was already stopped.
"Show me your fuckin hands" -> Kid moves his hands.
"Stop" *Bang* "Stop"-> Kid is dead.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I don't understand what Derec is so excited about. The kid obeyed all the orders the officer shouted.

Officer: "Police, Stop!" ->Kid is fully stoped within 2 seconds.
"Stop Right now!" -> Kid was already stopped.
"Show me your fuckin hands" -> Kid moves his hands.
"Stop" *Bang* "Stop"-> Kid is dead.

A decision having to be made in .8 seconds in the dark. This is why police have qualified immunity.

 

[zorq]

I don't understand what Derec is so excited about. The kid obeyed all the orders the officer shouted.

Officer: "Police, Stop!" ->Kid is fully stoped within 2 seconds.
"Stop Right now!" -> Kid was already stopped.
"Show me your fuckin hands" -> Kid moves his hands.
"Stop" *Bang* "Stop"-> Kid is dead.

A decision having to be made in .8 seconds in the dark. This is why police have qualified immunity.

A decision didn't have to be made in 0.8 seconds. It happened to be 0.8 seconds between the moment that the officer saw "something" (it was dark, remember) in his hands and the moment the gun discharged, but that does not indicate that a decision needed to be made in that time frame. The decision should be made in a much broader time frame, taking things into consideration like, Has this suspect been cooperating? Is my strobe flashlight confusing and disorienting him? Is asking a suspect to move their hands the wrong play when what I would really prefer is a suspect that is completely still?

Either way, qualified immunity needs a drastic overhaul. A badge should not be a "not even the US Constitution applies to me" permit.

BTW, How/Why is that even possible?

 

[untermensche]

Since the kid actually had a gun I don't think that cop would be convicted.

A fast decision but a gun can kill you in an instant.

Like a thrown hand grenade. You don't sit there and watch somebody point their gun at you.

The kid raised his hands but the last thing the cop saw was a gun in his hand then he saw the hand being raised.

This is human error.

This is what happens when a society allows hand guns and the police are afraid.

 

[Swammerdami]

Is there a bigger story here? The dead 13-year old had gunshot residue on his hands and was carrying a handgun. Were he and his adult friend committing crime(s) or just playing?

I normally take the side of relatively innocent blacks, and against the side of trigger-happy police. But this is ridiculous, the complete opposite of the Tamir Rice killing in many ways. Thirteen-year old kids should NOT become gun-wielding thugs. Perhaps a few deaths like this is a way to get this message across.

Please note that I am NOT blaming Adam Toledo. A 13-year old's brain is not developed enough even to be culpable. But it ain't developed enough to play with real guns either.

This bullshit makes America the laughingstock of the world. The problems are deep and there is only one simple (partial) answer: Somehow rid ourselves of the insane right-wing fixation on gun availability and "Second Amendment Rights."

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm pretty sure this makes it clear what happened. This is a reaction time issue:

He dropped the gun and raised his hands--but too late. The cop had already made the shoot decision, .8 seconds is not enough time to present new information (the empty hands) to change his mind. Fuck around with a gun with the cops, expect to be shot.

 

[Ford]

I'm pretty sure this makes it clear what happened. This is a reaction time issue:

He dropped the gun and raised his hands--but too late. The cop had already made the shoot decision, .8 seconds is not enough time to present new information (the empty hands) to change his mind. Fuck around with a gun with the cops, expect to be shot.

Seems to me I remember a slightly older kid at a protest who "fucked around with a gun," shot 3 people, and he was able to waltz right by the police, gun in hand, and was politely arrested later.

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm pretty sure this makes it clear what happened. This is a reaction time issue:

He dropped the gun and raised his hands--but too late. The cop had already made the shoot decision, .8 seconds is not enough time to present new information (the empty hands) to change his mind. Fuck around with a gun with the cops, expect to be shot.

What's the deal with ordering someone to drop their weapon but not giving them time to do so?

 

[repoman]