Bernie Sanders: Economic Bill of Rights

[lpetrich]

Bernie Sanders Proposes New Economic Bill of Rights noting Transcript: Bernie Sanders defines his vision for democratic socialism in the United States - Vox

• The right to a decent job that pays a living wage
• The right to quality health care
• The right to a complete education
• The right to affordable housing
• The right to a clean environment
• The right to a secure retirement

As FDR stated in his 1944 State of the Union address: “We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence.”

1944 State of the Union Address: FDR's Second Bill of Rights or Economic Bill of Rights Speech noting State of the Union Message to Congress: January 11, 1944

• The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the Nation
• The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation
• The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living
• The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad
• The right of every family to a decent home
• The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health
• The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment
• The right to a good education

FDR's economic BOR was cut short by his death and I think also by broader political changes. Arthurs Schlesinger I and II proposed that US history has an alternation between liberal and conservative periods, between reform and retrenchment, between expanding democracy and containing it, between public purpose and private interest, between concern with the wrongs of the many and concern with the rights of the few.

1776 - Lib Creation of Constitution - 1788 - Con Hamilton Era - 1800 Lib Jefferson Era - 1812 - Con Retreat after 1812 War - 1829 - Lib Jacksonian Democracy - 1841 - Con Domination by Slaveowners - 1861 - Lib Abolition of Slavery, Reconstruction - 1869 - Con The Gilded Age - 1901 - Lib Progressive Era - 1919 - Con Republican Restoration - 1931 - Lib The New Deal - 1947 - Con Eisenhower Era - 1962 - Lib Sixties Era - 1978 - Gilded Age II

Conservative eras accumulate problems that society's elites are reluctant to do much to solve -- if they consider them problems. This provokes a big effort to solve them, giving a liberal era. Liberal eras end from activism burnout, because it takes a lot of effort to do major reforms. Such eras also end from seeming to succeed and seeming to have gone too far. Thus setting the stage for another conservative era.

Ends of liberal eras can leave lots of unfinished business. The end of the Sixties Era left the US with the failure of the Equal Rights Amendment and the culture war over abortion. The Progressive Era ended with women getting the vote but with most of the feminist project being left undone. In fact, feminism only revived in the Sixties Era, with feminists then having to research their foremothers of half a century ago.

So it was with FDR's Economic Bill of Rights - unfinished business from the end of the New Deal era, I think.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I'm on board with all of those except for the first... a right to a decent job? How do they make that happen? Are we talking giant government work programs that don't actually do much of anything like Russia had?

If not, then how do you guarantee everyone a job, much less a decent job?

 

[Keith&Co.]

I'm on board with all of those except for the first... a right to a decent job? How do they make that happen? Are we talking giant government work programs that don't actually do much of anything like Russia had?

If not, then how do you guarantee everyone a job, much less a decent job?

is he saying you MUST have a job, or if you have a job, it should be decent? Wage, conditions, acceptable snacks in the vending machine...

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I'm on board with all of those except for the first... a right to a decent job? How do they make that happen? Are we talking giant government work programs that don't actually do much of anything like Russia had?

If not, then how do you guarantee everyone a job, much less a decent job?

is he saying you MUST have a job, or if you have a job, it should be decent? Wage, conditions, acceptable snacks in the vending machine...

Dunno. It says "Right to a decent job". That seems to me to mean you have a right to said job existing for you and you having it.

*shrug*

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm on board with all of those except for the first... a right to a decent job? How do they make that happen? Are we talking giant government work programs that don't actually do much of anything like Russia had?

If not, then how do you guarantee everyone a job, much less a decent job?

Second this. Jobs are created by the business sector, not by government. The idea that government can ensure decent jobs exist is nuts.

The rest of it depends on the details.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Bernie Sanders Proposes New Economic Bill of Rights noting Transcript: Bernie Sanders defines his vision for democratic socialism in the United States - Vox

• The right to a decent job that pays a living wage
• The right to quality health care
• The right to a complete education
• The right to affordable housing
• The right to a clean environment
• The right to a secure retirement

Sooo, iow, once again, the Democratic Platform as it has been for the last fifty years at least.

 

[ZiprHead]

Bernie Sanders Proposes New Economic Bill of Rights noting Transcript: Bernie Sanders defines his vision for democratic socialism in the United States - Vox

• The right to a decent job that pays a living wage
• The right to quality health care
• The right to a complete education
• The right to affordable housing
• The right to a clean environment
• The right to a secure retirement

Sooo, iow, once again, the Democratic Platform as it has been for the last fifty years at least.

Seems to have been forgotten by the party lately. Glad it's being brought back.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Bernie Sanders Proposes New Economic Bill of Rights noting Transcript: Bernie Sanders defines his vision for democratic socialism in the United States - Vox

• The right to a decent job that pays a living wage
• The right to quality health care
• The right to a complete education
• The right to affordable housing
• The right to a clean environment
• The right to a secure retirement

Sooo, iow, once again, the Democratic Platform as it has been for the last fifty years at least.

Seems to have been forgotten by the party lately.

When? This is exactly the platform it's been for at least the past fifty years. This was exactly what Hillary ran on and what Obama ran on and Bill and Carter and Kennedy for that matter (even the "clean environment" part).

At no point in the last half century (at least) were these exact issues not front and center in the DNC platform and in every candidate's mouths.

 

[barbos]

I'm on board with all of those except for the first... a right to a decent job? How do they make that happen? Are we talking giant government work programs that don't actually do much of anything like Russia had?

If not, then how do you guarantee everyone a job, much less a decent job?

Yeah, should be decent living even for unemployed, in other words meaningful universal basic income for everyone.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Seems to have been forgotten by the party lately.

When? This is exactly the platform it's been for at least the past fifty years. This was exactly what Hillary ran on and what Obama ran on and Bill and Carter and Kennedy for that matter (even the "clean environment" part).

At no point in the last half century (at least) were these exact issues not front and center in the DNC platform and in every candidate's mouths.

I don't have those platforms at hand, but I'd guess they use a word like "entitled" instead of "right" wrt jobs.

Bernie is advocating a job guarantee, a job for everyone willing and able.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Seems to have been forgotten by the party lately.

When? This is exactly the platform it's been for at least the past fifty years. This was exactly what Hillary ran on and what Obama ran on and Bill and Carter and Kennedy for that matter (even the "clean environment" part).

At no point in the last half century (at least) were these exact issues not front and center in the DNC platform and in every candidate's mouths.

I don't have those platforms at hand, but I'd guess they use a word like "entitled" instead of "right" wrt jobs.

Bernie is advocating a job guarantee, a job for everyone willing and able.

No, he's rhetorically classifying it as a "right," but he is not seriously arguing that we amend the actual Bill of Rights. Or, rather, he may be doing so, but of course knows it won't ever happen. It's yet another rhetorical gimmick, like saying he's submitting his "Medicare for All" bill knowing it will not pass, but just to "start the conversation." As if the "conversation" had not already been started and debated for decades prior.

Iow, he's just doing exactly what he's always done; co-opting someone else's platform and pretending it's his.

Regardless, it's still the exact same DNC platform that every Democratic candidate has argued for since the 50s.

ETA: Among other specifics, this is what Hillary promised:

Hillary will make it a central priority to make sure every American can find a good-paying job, with rising incomes across the board. In order to create jobs today and help businesses create them in the future, she’ll make the largest investment in good-paying jobs since World War II.
...
Commit to a full-employment, full-potential economy and break down barriers so that growth, jobs, and prosperity are shared in every community in America.

Same thing, just not promising magical unicorns.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I don't have those platforms at hand, but I'd guess they use a word like "entitled" instead of "right" wrt jobs.

Bernie is advocating a job guarantee, a job for everyone willing and able.

No, he's rhetorically classifying it as a "right," but he is not seriously arguing that we amend the actual Bill of Rights. Or, rather, he may be doing so, but of course knows it won't ever happen. It's yet another rhetorical gimmick, like saying he's submitting his "Medicare for All" bill knowing it will not pass, but just to "start the conversation." As if the "conversation" had not already been started and debated for decades prior.

Iow, he's just doing exactly what he's always done; co-opting someone else's platform and pretending it's his.

Regardless, it's still the exact same DNC platform that every Democratic candidate has argued for since the 50s.

Disagree. A jobs guarantee is beyond anything the Dems have advocated before, even under FDR. Rhetorical quibbles aside, it's something new.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I don't have those platforms at hand, but I'd guess they use a word like "entitled" instead of "right" wrt jobs.

Bernie is advocating a job guarantee, a job for everyone willing and able.

No, he's rhetorically classifying it as a "right," but he is not seriously arguing that we amend the actual Bill of Rights. Or, rather, he may be doing so, but of course knows it won't ever happen. It's yet another rhetorical gimmick, like saying he's submitting his "Medicare for All" bill knowing it will not pass, but just to "start the conversation." As if the "conversation" had not already been started and debated for decades prior.

Iow, he's just doing exactly what he's always done; co-opting someone else's platform and pretending it's his.

Regardless, it's still the exact same DNC platform that every Democratic candidate has argued for since the 50s.

Disagree. A jobs guarantee is beyond anything the Dems have advocated before

He's NOT advocating for a constitutional right to be employed. At least not in the sense of it ever actually happening, because it can't.

It's like "advocating" that everyone be made a millionaire. So, I tell you what, I'm now running for President and I'm advocating that it's everyone's right to be a millionaire. So by your logic, you must now vote for me because I am, after all, advocating that we all be made millionaires. Oh, and you get your own pet unicorn.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Disagree. A jobs guarantee is beyond anything the Dems have advocated before

He's NOT advocating for a constitutional right to be employed. At least not in the sense of it ever actually happening, because it can't.

It's like "advocating" that everyone be made a millionaire. So, I tell you what, I'm now running for President and I'm advocating that it's everyone's right to be a millionaire. So by your logic, you must now vote for me because I am, after all, advocating that we all be made millionaires. Oh, and you get your own pet unicorn.

Didn't say he did. You want to stick with your rhetorical hobby horses, fine. The point is that it's something quite new and different, whatever you decide to call it.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Disagree. A jobs guarantee is beyond anything the Dems have advocated before

He's NOT advocating for a constitutional right to be employed. At least not in the sense of it ever actually happening, because it can't.

It's like "advocating" that everyone be made a millionaire. So, I tell you what, I'm now running for President and I'm advocating that it's everyone's right to be a millionaire. So by your logic, you must now vote for me because I am, after all, advocating that we all be made millionaires. Oh, and you get your own pet unicorn.

Didn't say he did. You want to stick with your rhetorical hobby horses, fine. The point is that it's something quite new and different, whatever you decide to call it.

Idiotic. That's what I would call it. Oh, and I'm advocating for the constitutional right to take your car from you. And the right to force you to pay me a salary.

It is in no way different than any other DNC platform, other than in the rhetorical use of "right." He cannot amend the constitution so that you have a federally mandated right to be employed. That's simply not how rights work or within the power of the constitution, so it doesn't matter what he says rhetorically, it's not something that can ever be obtained.

Let's demonstrate. You tell us exactly how that would work. It's the magical Bernie future and you now have a constitutional right to be employed. What does that mean? You can walk into any company and force them to hire you? If they don't? They will be fined by the government or imprisoned?

So, if you don't hire me, I can order the government to send in the jackboots and force you to give me a job? No, that's private industry.

So it must mean he is advocating for my right to force the government to give me a job and because I have a right to be employed, the government would have no choice but to give me a job. I don't have to ever do jackshit, of course, because it's my right to be employed.

See any obvious problems with that?

 

[Horatio Parker]

Didn't say he did. You want to stick with your rhetorical hobby horses, fine. The point is that it's something quite new and different, whatever you decide to call it.

Idiotic. That's what I would call it. Oh, and I'm advocating for the constitutional right to take your car from you. And the right to force you to pay me a salary.

It is in no way different than any other DNC platform, other than in the rhetorical use of "right." He cannot amend the constitution so that you have a federally mandated right to be employed. That's simply not how rights work or within the power of the constitution, so it doesn't matter what he says rhetorically, it's not something that can ever be obtained.

Let's demonstrate. You tell us exactly how that would work. It's the magical Bernie future and you now have a constitutional right to be employed. What does that mean? You can walk into any company and force them to hire you? If they don't? They will be fined by the government or imprisoned?

So, if you don't hire me, I can order the government to send in the jackboots and force you to give me a job? No, that's private industry.

So it must mean he is advocating for my right to force the government to give me a job and because I have a right to be employed, the government would have no choice but to give me a job. I don't have to ever do jackshit, of course, because it's my right to be employed.

See any obvious problems with that?

What a relief to hear there are no problems, corruption or slack in the private sector. No wonder jobs can only come from there(apparently).

But again you misdirect - this is different from previous Dem platforms, idiotic or not.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I misdirect? Nice sense of irony.

So, yeah, no, it is not in any substantive manner different from any previous Dem platform. Sanders and you are merely playing pointless semantics games.

But, thanks for confirming the deliberate attempt to co-opt and deceive, I guess, because that's all this is just like he tried in the primaries.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I misdirect? Nice sense of irony.

So, yeah, no, it is not in any substantive manner different from any previous Dem platform. Sanders and you are merely playing pointless semantics games.

But, thanks for confirming the deliberate attempt to co-opt and deceive, I guess, because that's all this is just like he tried in the primaries.

A policy offering a job to anyone willing and able is not a substantive difference? What then would be a substantial difference be?

Where is the deception?

By all indiications you have no idea what a job guarantee is, but that it's a Bernie trick this you know.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I misdirect? Nice sense of irony.

So, yeah, no, it is not in any substantive manner different from any previous Dem platform. Sanders and you are merely playing pointless semantics games.

But, thanks for confirming the deliberate attempt to co-opt and deceive, I guess, because that's all this is just like he tried in the primaries.

A policy offering a job to anyone willing and able is not a substantive difference?

No. Again, every Democrat has promised to put anyone who is "able and willing" into a job.

Where is the deception?

In making it seem as if that can be made into a Constitutional right? Have you not been paying attention?

By all indiications you have no idea what a job guarantee is

Apparently neither do you, because you are the one who said the difference was that he was arguing to make it a right.

So, which is it? He's promising that if elected he'll do all that he can to create more jobs (i.e., ethe exact same thing that every single Democrat in the last fifty years at least has promised, as well as many Republicans for that matter), or that he is promising to make it a constitutional right to be employed?

According to the OP, here's what he allegedly is shucking:

The right to a decent job that pays a living wage

Does he have some other definition of "right" that you know of and wasn't that nonsense what lead us down this path to begin with? If that's NOT merely rhetorical, then, again, it's just the same thing as every DNC platform from the past half century.

 

[laughing dog]

Some of these "rights" are so ill-defined as to be impractical. I have no idea what a "complete education" means, nor "a decent paying job that pays a living wage", because "complete" and "decent" will differ in the eyes of different beholders.