Chinese restaurant refuses to serve blacks -- in Kenya

[hinduwoman]

I am not sure if the story is legit

A Chinese restaurant barring black clients from entering its premises in the Kenyan capital Nairobi has been shut down and its owners summoned by authorities.

The city authorities decided to investigate the Chongquing Chinese restaurant after furious residents took to social media to denounce an apparently racist policy of not allowing African customers to eat there after 5pm.
The owners of the restaurant, located in the Kilimani district, said the measure had been put in place following a robbery in 2013, and have apologised for causing any offence, the Daily Nation reported.

So they open a restaurant in an African country and say they don't want African customers?

False or something else going on?

 

[Trausti]

Seems true: http://news.yahoo.com/no-blacks-chinese-restaurant-shut-down-kenya-082940084.html

My take is that the Chinese going to Africa are not that interested in assimilation and would prefer to keep their social interaction limited to an insular Chinese community.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

What's funny is when they apologized for causing offense. Like they didn't realize beforehand that this would be offensive to people.

 

[Warpoet]

Wonder if we'll see reports on FOX about Chinese "no-go" zones now.

 

[dismal]

Since Chinese Do not control the power structure of Kenya and do not have a long and horrible history of oppressing African-Kenyans at least this isn't racism.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Seems true: http://news.yahoo.com/no-blacks-chinese-restaurant-shut-down-kenya-082940084.html

My take is that the Chinese going to Africa are not that interested in assimilation and would prefer to keep their social interaction limited to an insular Chinese community.

That's exactly my thought, also. The Chinese tend to want to socialize with fellow countrymen. My wife has gotten flak from other Chinese for marrying outside her race.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Well, if it's just after 5, it's hardly discrimination.

They should try Chinese Ladies Night.

 

[fast]

What's funny is when they apologized for causing offense. Like they didn't realize beforehand that this would be offensive to people.

It's not their fault discriminatory actions are offensive. That's an unfortunate consequence of being discriminatory. One can want one thing and not want the consequences of doing it. They are setting out not to offend but to keep them out, and if they could keep them out without offending they would, so the apology isn't for doing what they wanted to happen but rather for what happened they didn't want to happen.

 

[Valjean]

It never occurred to the restaurant owners that excluding blacks in a black society might not go down well?
I thought the Chinese were supposed to be clever.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

What's funny is when they apologized for causing offense. Like they didn't realize beforehand that this would be offensive to people.

It's not their fault discriminatory actions are offensive. That's an unfortunate consequence of being discriminatory. One can want one thing and not want the consequences of doing it. They are setting out not to offend but to keep them out, and if they could keep them out without offending they would, so the apology isn't for doing what they wanted to happen but rather for what happened they didn't want to happen.

OK ... parse that logic out for me a bit more, because I'm not seeing what you're getting at.

I am a Chinese restaurant owner in Kenya who doesn't want blacks coming into my restaurant in the evening. Explain to me exactly how I would go about doing that in a non-offensive manner.

If there are zero ways that this could happen (as it seems to me to be the case), then it is entirely my fault that my actions are offensive. If there's no way for me to do the action without causing offense, then it's not an "unfortunate consequence" of the action, then it's the inevitable (and in this case blatantly easily forseeable) consequence of the action and I can't go around trying to duck my responsibility for causing the offense.

I honestly don't see a difference between what you're saying and the statement "Well, I just wanted to have sex with the unconscious woman. I wasn't trying to rape anybody".

If you can't do something without it causing something else and that's blatantly obvious before you do it, then that other thing is entirely your fault.

 

[Nexus]

If you can't do something without it causing something else and that's blatantly obvious before you do it, then that other thing is entirely your fault.

Its not blatantly obvious though. From your perspective as a westerner in the 21st century segregation is offensive but to other people like these Chinese fraternizing with their own kind is what they prefer. It possible from their perspective they wouldn't be offended from being excluded from non-chinese restaurants and never seek them out in the first place.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

If you can't do something without it causing something else and that's blatantly obvious before you do it, then that other thing is entirely your fault.

Its not blatantly obvious though. From your perspective as a westerner in the 21st century segregation is offensive but to other people like these Chinese fraternizing with their own kind is what they prefer. It possible from their perspective they wouldn't be offended from being excluded from non-chinese restaurants and never seek them out in the first place.

No, it's actually blatantly obvious to anyone who isn't a complete idiot. Given that these people owned a restaurant, it's safe to say that they had at least a level of intellect sufficient for them to be able to unlock a door without accidentally knifing themselves in the throat and if you can do that, you're smart enough know beforehand exactly how offensive it is to have a policy excluding blacks from your business when you operate that business in the middle of an African country.

 

[dismal]

Its not blatantly obvious though. From your perspective as a westerner in the 21st century segregation is offensive but to other people like these Chinese fraternizing with their own kind is what they prefer. It possible from their perspective they wouldn't be offended from being excluded from non-chinese restaurants and never seek them out in the first place.

No, it's actually blatantly obvious to anyone who isn't a complete idiot. Given that these people owned a restaurant, it's safe to say that they had at least a level of intellect sufficient for them to be able to unlock a door without accidentally knifing themselves in the throat and if you can do that, you're smart enough know beforehand exactly how offensive it is to have a policy excluding blacks from your business when you operate that business in the middle of an African country.

Perhaps they didn't care if black people were offended. Or were willing to risk it.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

No, it's actually blatantly obvious to anyone who isn't a complete idiot. Given that these people owned a restaurant, it's safe to say that they had at least a level of intellect sufficient for them to be able to unlock a door without accidentally knifing themselves in the throat and if you can do that, you're smart enough know beforehand exactly how offensive it is to have a policy excluding blacks from your business when you operate that business in the middle of an African country.

Perhaps they didn't care if black people were offended. Or were willing to risk it.

And that's fine. What I'm saying is that the idea that they were unaware of how offensive their policy was isn't a credible claim.

 

[Nexus]

No, it's actually blatantly obvious to anyone who isn't a complete idiot.

Again you're imposing your first world western views upon the Chinese immigrants there. Considering the 100's of years Chinese have self segregated themselves throughout the world in their own China towns its safe to assume some don't share your opinion that segregation is wrong.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

No, it's actually blatantly obvious to anyone who isn't a complete idiot.

Again you're imposing your first world western views upon the Chinese immigrants there. Considering the 100's of years Chinese have self segregated themselves throughout the world in their own China towns its safe to assume some don't share your opinion that segregation is wrong.

How is that "imposing my views" as opposed to "holding someone accountable for basic levels of logical thought"?

We may just have to agree to disagree about this one.

 

[Nexus]

Again you're imposing your first world western views upon the Chinese immigrants there. Considering the 100's of years Chinese have self segregated themselves throughout the world in their own China towns its safe to assume some don't share your opinion that segregation is wrong.

How is that "imposing my views" as opposed to "holding someone accountable for basic levels of logical thought"?

Moral axioms like segregation is wrong is not a basic logical thought its a moral preference.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

How is that "imposing my views" as opposed to "holding someone accountable for basic levels of logical thought"?

Moral axioms like segregation is wrong is not a basic logical thought its a moral preference.

And they can be fine thinking that it's an OK thing for them to do - racists often have that point of view. To think that the people being segregated against wouldn't be offended, however, is just too idiotic to be justified.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It never occurred to the restaurant owners that excluding blacks in a black society might not go down well?
I thought the Chinese were supposed to be clever.

Of course they knew it wouldn't go over well with the blacks. The issue is with their clientele. If they feel they'll get more business by excluding blacks than by including them it's understandable why they might make such a choice. We consider such actions illegal but what are the laws like there?

When I was there (admittedly more than 30 years ago) racism was rampant.

 

[laughing dog]

If some people actually bothered to read the article, it is perfectly clear that the owners of the restaurant had no problem with black people eating at their restaurant before 5pm or at any time prior to some time in 2013 when they were robbed by a black man. And from the cited article

"We have established that the restaurant did not have the licences and I have have ordered it closed until the management complies," Nairobi governor Evans Kidero was quoted as saying.

He also said that "all business and service providers must ensure that all customers and clients are treated with respect and dignity, irrespective of race colour, sex, tribe and religion'

.