Christians Disregarding Jesus

[Unknown Soldier]

Christians are very often accused of hypocrisy especially when they act hatefully or immorally. If you're a Christian or not, you're likely to assume that Jesus taught love for others and righteous behavior. When Christians apparently don't obey their "Lord," we tend to see them as phonies not practicing what they preach. Although I think the reality of what Christians have done and what the Gospel tells us is much more complicated than this simplistic view, there is no doubt that much of the dogmas attributed to Jesus go unheeded even by his most devout followers. Here's just a sample:

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matthew 5:42-44
Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you...

Matthew 19:12
For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”

Luke 18:22
...Sell all that you own and distribute the money to the poor...

Luke 6:29
If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.

Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, ‘You fool,’ you will be liable to the hell of fire.

Heck, even Jesus himself we are told didn't live up to that last one!

So why does so much of what Jesus preached go unheeded? Are there good reasons for disobedience?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matthew 5:42-44
Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you...

Matthew 19:12
For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”

Luke 18:22
...Sell all that you own and distribute the money to the poor...

Luke 6:29
If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.

Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, ‘You fool,’ you will be liable to the hell of fire.

I forgot a BIG one:

Luke 6:37
“...Forgive, and you will be forgiven..."

Whoops--Christians must have missed that one.

 

[excreationist]

.....So why does so much of what Jesus preached go unheeded? Are there good reasons for disobedience?

I think everyone picks and chooses because I think there are contradictions. Though many Christians would say there aren't any contradictions.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

This one's a biggie. When I critique Christianity, for many of its defenders it's a very bitter pill to swallow. I've literally had Christians tell me I'm persecuting them, and it hurts them when I do so. They can't stand to endure such suffering for Jesus. Great rewards in heaven may or may no come later, but for now they just know they want to be free of pain.

Oh, and did the prophets also become embittered as they suffered for God enduring tough scrutiny too?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

.....So why does so much of what Jesus preached go unheeded? Are there good reasons for disobedience?

I think everyone picks and chooses because I think there are contradictions. Though many Christians would say there aren't any contradictions.

True. Other reasons anybody including Christians should and normally do disregard Christ's reputed injunctions are that they are inconvenient, against natural human drives, expensive, foolish, or simply dangerous. At best his commandments are Christianity's window dressing meant to impress the vulnerable and the unwary that the church is a source of love and friendship for them.

 

[Learner]

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matthew 5:42-44
Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you...

Matthew 19:12
For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”

Luke 18:22
...Sell all that you own and distribute the money to the poor...

Luke 6:29
If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.

Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, ‘You fool,’ you will be liable to the hell of fire.

I forgot a BIG one:

Luke 6:37
“...Forgive, and you will be forgiven..."

Whoops--Christians must have missed that one.

I think they understand why they need a saviour. No man is perfect as Jesus was, basically.

 

[Learner]

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

This one's a biggie. When I critique Christianity, for many of its defenders it's a very bitter pill to swallow. I've literally had Christians tell me I'm persecuting them, and it hurts them when I do so. They can't stand to endure such suffering for Jesus. Great rewards in heaven may or may no come later, but for now they just know they want to be free of pain.

Oh, and did the prophets also become embittered as they suffered for God enduring tough scrutiny too?

You seem to be an alright fellow imo. I don't think I'll feel persecuted over any discussion here.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I think they understand why they need a saviour.

I've been told that Jesus is Lord, too. You can't have the savior part without the Lord part.

No man is perfect as Jesus was, basically.

But what of women? Did you forget about them?

Anyway, if Jesus can't get people to obey him, then I'm not so confident he can get anybody to live forever either.

You seem to be an alright fellow imo.

If I understand correctly, I'm an alright fellow whom Jesus will eternally damn.

I don't think I'll feel persecuted over any discussion here.

That's good. That way you don't need to rejoice and be exceedingly glad.

 

[Learner]

I think they understand why they need a saviour.

I've been told that Jesus is Lord, too. You can't have the savior part without the Lord part.

No disputing you here..

No man is perfect as Jesus was, basically.

But what of women? Did you forget about them?

A valid but important point. I think I automatically mentioned 'man' because Jesus is male. But yes to your concern, I would include women .

Anyway, if Jesus can't get people to obey him, then I'm not so confident he can get anybody to live forever either.

You seem to be an alright fellow imo.

If I understand correctly, I'm an alright fellow whom Jesus will eternally damn.

Most sins are forgivable, it does depends because Jesus judges accordingly. Unfortuantely for the reprobates (which I don't think you are), there's no forgiveness.

I don't think I'll feel persecuted over any discussion here.

That's good. That way you don't need to rejoice and be exceedingly glad.

Yes and you can relay that to those, you allegedly persecuted - there's nothing to feel persecuted about, evident in our mutual & decent dialogue, even in disagreements, sarcasm or otherwise.

 

[atrib]

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matthew 5:42-44
Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you...

Matthew 19:12
For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”

Luke 18:22
...Sell all that you own and distribute the money to the poor...

Luke 6:29
If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.

Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, ‘You fool,’ you will be liable to the hell of fire.

I forgot a BIG one:

Luke 6:37
“...Forgive, and you will be forgiven..."

Whoops--Christians must have missed that one.

I think they understand why they need a saviour. No man is perfect as Jesus was, basically.

What do you need to be saved from? Do you worry about death, and wish you could live forever? Why is the idea of god so attractive to you? Is it fear, or do you think you love the idea of God/Jesus?

I hear Christians tell me this all the time - Jesus was sacrificed to save us from our sins. And I don't get it. What have humans done to deserve eternal punishment (the consequence of not being saved)? Why did God create us broken, and then punish us for behaving in a way we were created to behave? Why does a god require human sacrifice to allow himself to forgive us? None of this makes any sense to me. Do you think about these questions, and if you do, how do you resolve them?

 

[steve_bank]

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matthew 5:42-44
Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you...

Matthew 19:12
For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”

Luke 18:22
...Sell all that you own and distribute the money to the poor...

Luke 6:29
If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.

Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, ‘You fool,’ you will be liable to the hell of fire.

I forgot a BIG one:

Luke 6:37
“...Forgive, and you will be forgiven..."

Whoops--Christians must have missed that one.

I think they understand why they need a saviour. No man is perfect as Jesus was, basically.

What do you need to be saved from? Do you worry about death, and wish you could live forever? Why is the idea of god so attractive to you? Is it fear, or do you think you love the idea of God/Jesus?

I hear Christians tell me this all the time - Jesus was sacrificed to save us from our sins. And I don't get it. What have humans done to deserve eternal punishment (the consequence of not being saved)? Why did God create us broken, and then punish us for behaving in a way we were created to behave? Why does a god require human sacrifice to allow himself to forgive us? None of this makes any sense to me. Do you think about these questions, and if you do, how do you resolve them?

That pretty much says it all.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I've been told that Jesus is Lord, too. You can't have the savior part without the Lord part.

No disputing you here..

Earlier you said: "I think they understand why they need a saviour. No man is perfect as Jesus was, basically." That sounds like a "savior" who saves no matter how imperfect one may be, and disobedience in this context is an imperfection. In other words, you appeared to be saying that Jesus saves whether people accept him as Lord or not.

I think I automatically mentioned 'man' because Jesus is male. But yes to your concern, I would include women .

Actually, I think it's more likely that you neglected to mention women because they are secondary to men in the Judeo-Christian belief system. Does the Bible, for example, mention a "Daughter of God"? It seems odd to me that a real God would care what genitals a person has, but men creating a God in a patriarchal society that subjugates women for the sexual pleasure and procreation of dominant males would care.

Most sins are forgivable, it does depends because Jesus judges accordingly. Unfortuantely for the reprobates (which I don't think you are), there's no forgiveness.

Christians tend to divide people up that way into the sheep and the goats, the sinners and the saints, and the saved and the damned. I've found that such bifurcations have little to do with what people are really like. We all have degrees of good and bad in us regardless of what God we do or do not believe in.

Yes and you can relay that to those, you allegedly persecuted - there's nothing to feel persecuted about, evident in our mutual & decent dialogue, even in disagreements, sarcasm or otherwise.

But shouldn't they be told to welcome persecution like Jesus said they should? They seem to hate suffering for Jesus. Maybe they're not so sure about those great rewards in heaven.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

What do you need to be saved from? Do you worry about death, and wish you could live forever? Why is the idea of god so attractive to you? Is it fear, or do you think you love the idea of God/Jesus?

I think it's safe to say that if we lived happily forever, then few if any of us would bother with any Gods real or imagined. We would have no need for Gods. Gods are means to an end, and it's the end that really matters.

I hear Christians tell me this all the time - Jesus was sacrificed to save us from our sins. And I don't get it. What have humans done to deserve eternal punishment (the consequence of not being saved)? Why did God create us broken, and then punish us for behaving in a way we were created to behave? Why does a god require human sacrifice to allow himself to forgive us? None of this makes any sense to me. Do you think about these questions, and if you do, how do you resolve them?

Logically, no real God would act like the God of the Bible presumably does. If that God was created by crafty men seeking power over other people, on the other hand, then Christian theology does make sense. Christ's supposed death on the cross can create sympathy and guilt moving some people to show gratitude if not to Christ then to those who espouse him. The idea of eternal punishment can frighten people into belief in an outlandish God they wouldn't buy otherwise. We are told we are "sick" to make us seek the cure offered by the clergy.

Does it make sense now?

 

[atrib]

What do you need to be saved from? Do you worry about death, and wish you could live forever? Why is the idea of god so attractive to you? Is it fear, or do you think you love the idea of God/Jesus?

I think it's safe to say that if we lived happily forever, then few if any of us would bother with any Gods real or imagined. We would have no need for Gods. Gods are means to an end, and it's the end that really matters.

I hear Christians tell me this all the time - Jesus was sacrificed to save us from our sins. And I don't get it. What have humans done to deserve eternal punishment (the consequence of not being saved)? Why did God create us broken, and then punish us for behaving in a way we were created to behave? Why does a god require human sacrifice to allow himself to forgive us? None of this makes any sense to me. Do you think about these questions, and if you do, how do you resolve them?

Logically, no real God would act like the God of the Bible presumably does. If that God was created by crafty men seeking power over other people, on the other hand, then Christian theology does make sense. Christ's supposed death on the cross can create sympathy and guilt moving some people to show gratitude if not to Christ then to those who espouse him. The idea of eternal punishment can frighten people into belief in an outlandish God they wouldn't buy otherwise. We are told we are "sick" to make us seek the cure offered by the clergy.

Does it make sense now?

Yes, I understand the broad strokes. I was inquiring specifically about that particular individual's thoughts and motivations.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Yes, I understand the broad strokes. I was inquiring specifically about that particular individual's thoughts and motivations.

I just wanted to make sure you got an informative, straight answer because it appeared you weren't going to get one. Christian apologists tend to dodge tough questions that if answered honestly will falsify some Christian dogma.