http://piecefit.com/index.php/en/sy...around-the-universal-basic-income#k2Container
Here are the myths being debunked:
Here are the myths being debunked:
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Debunking the top 5 Myths about the Universal Basic Income
- Thread starter ksen
- Start date
dystopian
Veteran Member
Nice; I'd like UBI to be discussed more often in general (not specifically on this forum); it really seems like the only way to ensure a decent standard of living for everyone while also having a money-based system; especially as jobs are increasingly automated. I'm definitely in favor of a generous UBI. It has to at the very least make it so that everyone can live off of it without having to go in debt the moment they get a busted knee or are faced with some other unforeseen expense. Having it provide for a least a modicum of luxury should really also be included if we're going to do it for the right reasons (the betterment of our fellow human beings).
dystopian
Veteran Member
I've heard 4 of these arguments at least every time a universal basic income is discussed; so it seems like a pretty apt title to me.
I guess if you don't want to argue with the content try to derail to the presentation.
Indeed. This is one of the more tiresome devices editorialists resort to.
Your thread does not actually need (or perhaps more importantly have) anyone to argue with, so I don't see how it can be "derailed".
Just make up some more imaginary responses to get it back on track if you must.
You know what you could do?
Look at the things I have actually said in other threads about UBI and argue against them if you like, though this would require effort and you may find that my comments don't line up all that well with your lazy strawman device.
laughing dog
Contributor
With you around, he doesn't need to.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
The first two make me scratch my head and say "huh?" But enough about including empty rhetoric to round out a list all the way up to five. It is the third one where an argument is finally presented.
This one is fascinating. This is part of argument three. And I cannot say I agree with the mindset behind that argument. It is meant to be a counter-argument to the argument that people would stop working if they didn't have to. But he posits that people work for the recognition - of other people. And that I find very interesting. People basing their lives on what other people think of them. People who judge their own worth by the perception of others. Fascinating.
There are some other people who I work on behalf of. Not my neighbors, though. And not the people I meet on the street. Not even my coworkers, although my effort is to ensure my boss is pleased with my work. The only people outside of myself that I could be said to work for are my wife and kids. That's it. And what I get there isn't "recognition from them" but the knowledge inside myself that I am successfully supporting them. Perhaps I am too internally motivated. It is said that libertarians are much more likely to be internally motivated and much less likely to be externally motivated. The satisfaction of a job well done can come from inside or from outside, and for me it comes from the inside.
This one is fascinating. This is part of argument three. And I cannot say I agree with the mindset behind that argument. It is meant to be a counter-argument to the argument that people would stop working if they didn't have to. But he posits that people work for the recognition - of other people. And that I find very interesting. People basing their lives on what other people think of them. People who judge their own worth by the perception of others. Fascinating.
There are some other people who I work on behalf of. Not my neighbors, though. And not the people I meet on the street. Not even my coworkers, although my effort is to ensure my boss is pleased with my work. The only people outside of myself that I could be said to work for are my wife and kids. That's it. And what I get there isn't "recognition from them" but the knowledge inside myself that I am successfully supporting them. Perhaps I am too internally motivated. It is said that libertarians are much more likely to be internally motivated and much less likely to be externally motivated. The satisfaction of a job well done can come from inside or from outside, and for me it comes from the inside.
dystopian
Veteran Member
Or, you might repeat them here, instead of clogging up the thread and then expect people to dig around through the archives for your posts (has this forum even HAD a thread about UBI?)
nah
AthenaAwakened
Contributor
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coloradoatheist
Veteran Member
While some of all of them might be used, an argument on 3 and 5 would be used. And the argument for all of them would be how much of a basic income and how many people it might affect. If the income is big enough a lot of people won't work and it would be expensive.
Dismal, I do hope you put your thoughts on the arguments against it, though a basic income i think is one that has more economists support.
NobleSavage
Veteran Member
Whenever UBC comes up I think of the lyrics to Big Rock Candy Mountain.
One evening as the sun went down
And the jungle fires were burning,
Down the track came a hobo hiking,
And he said, "Boys, I'm not turning
I'm headed for a land that's far away
Besides the crystal fountains
So come with me, we'll go and see
The Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains,
There's a land that's fair and bright,
Where the handouts grow on bushes
And you sleep out every night.
Where the boxcars all are empty
And the sun shines every day
And the birds and the bees
And the cigarette trees
The lemonade springs
Where the bluebird sings
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains.
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
All the cops have wooden legs
And the bulldogs all have rubber teeth
And the hens lay soft-boiled eggs
The farmers' trees are full of fruit
And the barns are full of hay
Oh I'm bound to go
Where there ain't no snow
Where the rain don't fall
The winds don't blow
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains.
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
You never change your socks
And the little streams of alcohol
Come trickling down the rocks
The brakemen have to tip their hats
And the railway bulls are blind
There's a lake of stew
And of whiskey too
You can paddle all around it
In a big canoe
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains,
The jails are made of tin.
And you can walk right out again,
As soon as you are in.
There ain't no short-handled shovels,
No axes, saws nor picks,
I'm bound to stay
Where you sleep all day,
Where they hung the jerk
That invented work
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains.
One evening as the sun went down
And the jungle fires were burning,
Down the track came a hobo hiking,
And he said, "Boys, I'm not turning
I'm headed for a land that's far away
Besides the crystal fountains
So come with me, we'll go and see
The Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains,
There's a land that's fair and bright,
Where the handouts grow on bushes
And you sleep out every night.
Where the boxcars all are empty
And the sun shines every day
And the birds and the bees
And the cigarette trees
The lemonade springs
Where the bluebird sings
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains.
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
All the cops have wooden legs
And the bulldogs all have rubber teeth
And the hens lay soft-boiled eggs
The farmers' trees are full of fruit
And the barns are full of hay
Oh I'm bound to go
Where there ain't no snow
Where the rain don't fall
The winds don't blow
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains.
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
You never change your socks
And the little streams of alcohol
Come trickling down the rocks
The brakemen have to tip their hats
And the railway bulls are blind
There's a lake of stew
And of whiskey too
You can paddle all around it
In a big canoe
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains,
The jails are made of tin.
And you can walk right out again,
As soon as you are in.
There ain't no short-handled shovels,
No axes, saws nor picks,
I'm bound to stay
Where you sleep all day,
Where they hung the jerk
That invented work
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains.
UBI would be so much simpler and fairer than the systems we now have for economic welfare. Just make it a tax credit that everybody gets.
I have generally been favorable toward it in other threads to the extent it replaces our current byzantine systems.
But "the arguments" here are generally strawmen.
Not to mention, even if they weren't simply labeling them a "myth" does not constitute an intellectual argument.
NobleSavage
Veteran Member
I think the biggest barrier would be the welfare industrial complex. To many people have a stake in the current system.