Democrats trying to unseat each other

[lpetrich]

House Democrats Are Privately Supporting Marie Newman

On September 17, this happened:
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to Back First 2020 Challenger to Sitting Democrat - The New York Times

“Marie Newman is a textbook example of one of the ways that we could be better as a party — to come from a deep blue seat and to be championing all the issues we need to be championing,” Ms. Ocasio-Cortez said in an interview.

Of Mr. Lipinski, she said: “The fact that a deep blue seat is advocating for many parts of the Republican agenda is extremely problematic. We’re not talking about a swing state that is being forced to take tough votes.”

Mr. Lipinski, 53, bills himself in his campaign ads as “a workhorse, not a show horse,” and the eight-term congressman, who opposes abortion rights and voted against the Affordable Care Act, has repeatedly expressed his concerns that it is “detrimental” for the party to push out conservative lawmakers. He succeeded his father, William O. Lipinski, who held the seat for more than two decades before the younger Mr. Lipinski was elected in 2004.

For his part, DL dismissed MN as "extreme" and a potential "fifth member of 'the squad'" (AOC, RT, AP, IO). But his idea of moderation is to vote with Pres. Trump 40% of the time. But last year, DL won by only 2.2% against MN - a squeaker of a victory.

The New York Times on Twitter: "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is making her first move to back primary challengers to incumbents. She plans to endorse Marie Newman, a progressive candidate seeking to oust Representative Daniel Lipinski, a conservative-leaning Illinois Democrat. https://t.co/h7FG3XNcXX" / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Marie Newman (@Marie4Congress) is a grassroots fighter for working families in #IL03.
To me, choosing to support is about more than just policy. It’s also about who puts in the WORK. Are they wearing out their shoes?
Marie is. Her supporters are. Let’s knock doors & join them. https://t.co/jjSy4Anc14" / Twitter

The next day,
Ro Khanna on Twitter: ".@LaurenUnderwood, @AOC and I are so far the Democrats endorsing pro choice @Marie4Congress over anti choice, anti ACA, anti LGBTQ equality Dan Lipinski. Honest question: Shouldn’t endorsing @Marie4Congress be a no brainer for anyone who is a progressive in Congress?" / Twitter
Though LU supports MN, she has not officially endorsed MN.

Many progressive House Democrats who want to stand up for reproductive rights have been privately helping Newman’s campaign, but are trying to keep it under wraps out of fear of retribution by party leadership. Other members have quietly expressed their desire to help.

Because the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee wants to protect incumbents no matter what.

Newman, in her first run, even had the backing of two of Lipinski’s home-state colleagues, Reps. Jan Schakowsky and Luis Gutiérrez. This time around, she’s also garnered support from leading progressives including presidential candidates Sens. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. And despite the fact that several consultants dropped her campaign under pressure from the House Democrats’ campaign arm, she’s had no problem winning institutional support once again from groups like EMILY’s List, MoveOn, NARAL Pro-Choice America, Planned Parenthood, and the Progressive Change Campaign Committee.

Enough to push her to victory in the primary? We will see. "It ain't over till it's over", the old saying goes.

 

[lpetrich]

AOC considered it understandable that people would want to stay quiet about primary challengers.

“I also think that the dynamic is changing a little bit this cycle,” she said. Ocasio-Cortez herself, of course, upset longstanding Rep. Joe Crowley. “I’m trying to contribute to that culture, obviously.”

“When I first got here,” she continued, “quite a few members told me it’s an open secret that the more conservative members of the party quietly support primary challengers to certain progressives as well … so the way I kinda think about it is might as well be honest about it.”

Progressives including AOC herself, it seems. But this seems like civil war -- the Democratic Party being divided into factions that try to primary each other.

As for Hoyer’s comments about the Democratic Party’s inclusion of anti-choice lawmakers, Ocasio-Cortez disagreed while recognizing that “we’re a caucus of many different people.”

“He’s free to believe that obviously, I’m not here to say that he’s wrong,” she continued. “I’m saying we have different takes, and I think that an anti-choice position is a relic of our past and it is firmly in the Republican ideology, and I do not think that is what our party should be standing for.”

In any case, antiabortion Democrats have become very rare.

Here are some more such challenges:

• Meet Jessica Cisneros, the 26-year-old Laredo attorney running against Cuellar in Congress - Laredo Morning Times
• Wall Street-Friendly Long Island Democrat Picks Up A Progressive Challenger | HuffPost - Melanie D'Arrigo
• Alex Morse ’11 challenges 30-year incumbent in Congress

But without the high-level support that Marie Newman has gotten.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Finish him! Of course the DCCC has a long history of not supporting progressives, so it is not like any of this is new. I suspect Lipinski will fall as women turn out at the polls to vote against politicians that have not been supporting important women's issues. This is going to be an ongoing battle for a number of future election cycles.

 

[Harry Bosch]

AOC considered it understandable that people would want to stay quiet about primary challengers.

“I also think that the dynamic is changing a little bit this cycle,” she said. Ocasio-Cortez herself, of course, upset longstanding Rep. Joe Crowley. “I’m trying to contribute to that culture, obviously.”

“When I first got here,” she continued, “quite a few members told me it’s an open secret that the more conservative members of the party quietly support primary challengers to certain progressives as well … so the way I kinda think about it is might as well be honest about it.”

Progressives including AOC herself, it seems. But this seems like civil war -- the Democratic Party being divided into factions that try to primary each other.

As for Hoyer’s comments about the Democratic Party’s inclusion of anti-choice lawmakers, Ocasio-Cortez disagreed while recognizing that “we’re a caucus of many different people.”

“He’s free to believe that obviously, I’m not here to say that he’s wrong,” she continued. “I’m saying we have different takes, and I think that an anti-choice position is a relic of our past and it is firmly in the Republican ideology, and I do not think that is what our party should be standing for.”

In any case, antiabortion Democrats have become very rare.

Here are some more such challenges:

• Meet Jessica Cisneros, the 26-year-old Laredo attorney running against Cuellar in Congress - Laredo Morning Times
• Wall Street-Friendly Long Island Democrat Picks Up A Progressive Challenger | HuffPost - Melanie D'Arrigo
• Alex Morse ’11 challenges 30-year incumbent in Congress

But without the high-level support that Marie Newman has gotten.

I read the HuffPost article regarding D'Arrigo vs Suozzi. How is Suozzi a "wall street friendly"?

But this trend is extremely predictable and happens over and over. Dems win congress. Then they get cocky. They go against the moderates, go far left. Eventually enough moderates get kicked out and then they go republican. Then the republicans take over. This happens about every 10 years or so.

 

[Jarhyn]

Of course we should seek primary challenges against people who don't actually represent the interests of the people.

This is exactly what separates the democrats and the republicans: the idea that we decide democratically on what our path forward is to look like.

This is how a party is supposed to function, and exactly why primaries exist with incumbents in the first place. Otherwise, what is the point of democracy at all? We need the power to say "NO!" to being forced to pick between a douche and a turd. That power needs to be expressed, or else a "safe" district is just an excuse to be another bought asshole.

In the US we have "Conservatives", and "Conservatives that don't hate gay people". It's time to have "Progressives".

 

[Harry Bosch]

Of course we should seek primary challenges against people who don't actually represent the interests of the people.

This is exactly what separates the democrats and the republicans: the idea that we decide democratically on what our path forward is to look like.

This is how a party is supposed to function, and exactly why primaries exist with incumbents in the first place. Otherwise, what is the point of democracy at all? We need the power to say "NO!" to being forced to pick between a douche and a turd. That power needs to be expressed, or else a "safe" district is just an excuse to be another bought asshole.

In the US we have "Conservatives", and "Conservatives that don't hate gay people". It's time to have "Progressives".

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that this is very common. The republicans will retake the house someday when enough moderates get pushed out of the dem party, rinse and repeat.

 

[Jarhyn]

Of course we should seek primary challenges against people who don't actually represent the interests of the people.

This is exactly what separates the democrats and the republicans: the idea that we decide democratically on what our path forward is to look like.

This is how a party is supposed to function, and exactly why primaries exist with incumbents in the first place. Otherwise, what is the point of democracy at all? We need the power to say "NO!" to being forced to pick between a douche and a turd. That power needs to be expressed, or else a "safe" district is just an excuse to be another bought asshole.

In the US we have "Conservatives", and "Conservatives that don't hate gay people". It's time to have "Progressives".

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that this is very common. The republicans will retake the house someday when enough moderates get pushed out of the dem party, rinse and repeat.

No. They won't. The reason they took power before was because not enough progressives were driving the party, and country, left. People started to see both parties as the same, and the youth of America continued to stay home because the party continued to ignore their needs.

The way to keep conservatives out of power is not mythical 'moderates'.

"Why vote, both parties are the same, liars and corrupt". That's what keeps republicans in power: failing to actually oppose them, and capitulation to their asymmetrical tactics.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Of course we should seek primary challenges against people who don't actually represent the interests of the people.

This is exactly what separates the democrats and the republicans: the idea that we decide democratically on what our path forward is to look like.

This is how a party is supposed to function, and exactly why primaries exist with incumbents in the first place. Otherwise, what is the point of democracy at all? We need the power to say "NO!" to being forced to pick between a douche and a turd. That power needs to be expressed, or else a "safe" district is just an excuse to be another bought asshole.

In the US we have "Conservatives", and "Conservatives that don't hate gay people". It's time to have "Progressives".

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that this is very common. The republicans will retake the house someday when enough moderates get pushed out of the dem party, rinse and repeat.

No. They won't. The reason they took power before was because not enough progressives were driving the party, and country, left. People started to see both parties as the same, and the youth of America continued to stay home because the party continued to ignore their needs.

The way to keep conservatives out of power is not mythical 'moderates'.

"Why vote, both parties are the same, liars and corrupt". That's what keeps republicans in power: failing to actually oppose them, and capitulation to their asymmetrical tactics.

Jarhyn: you're my favorite poster on this forum. You are the only one to have ever given me neg rep. And I appreciate that! But your weakness is always wanting to push away those who don't 100% agree with your position. Moderates are not the enemy. The real group sending us down the toilet are the far right. We will feel their power greatly over the next 30 years due to the supreme court. Finally, I won't give much credence to the "youth of America" until they start voting. If they can't put down their video games for 30 minutes and vote, we shouldn't bother trying to court them...

 

[Jarhyn]

No. They won't. The reason they took power before was because not enough progressives were driving the party, and country, left. People started to see both parties as the same, and the youth of America continued to stay home because the party continued to ignore their needs.

The way to keep conservatives out of power is not mythical 'moderates'.

"Why vote, both parties are the same, liars and corrupt". That's what keeps republicans in power: failing to actually oppose them, and capitulation to their asymmetrical tactics.

Jarhyn: you're my favorite poster on this forum. You are the only one to have ever given me neg rep. And I appreciate that! But your weakness is always wanting to push away those who don't 100% agree with your position. Moderates are not the enemy. The real group sending us down the toilet are the far right. We will feel their power greatly over the next 30 years due to the supreme court. Finally, I won't give much credence to the "youth of America" until they start voting. If they can't put down their video games for 30 minutes and vote, we shouldn't bother trying to court them...

Sorry. No. Moderates who would vote for a group openly pushing for fascism rather than accept progress are 100% "the enemy".

You CANNOT expect youth to vote if you do not give them a clear reason to do so.

Think of how ridiculous this sounds: "I won't make video games, because young people don't buy my word processor products!"

The "moderate" left is refusing to market policies for young Americans because young Americans don't care about their shitty policies that enrich boomers and throw them into debt slavery. If you want someone to consume your product, you change your product, you don't bemoan the fact that your product is shit.

Catering to the "middle", with one side that refuses to give ground, is a good way to let that side take ground

 

[lpetrich]

Ballotpedia ("the Encylopedia of American Politics") is a good reference for election details and political careers.

• Ro Khanna (D-CA) beat 8-term incumbent Mike Honda in 2016
• Pramila Jayapal (D-WA) won in 2016
• AOC (D-NY) beat 10-term incumbent Joe Crowley in 2018
• Ayanna Pressley (D-MA) beat 10-term incumbent Michael Capuano in 2018
• Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) won in 2018
• Ilhan Omar (D-MN) won in 2018
• Lauren Underwood (D-IL) won in 2018
• Deb Haaland (D-NM) won in 2018
• Sharice Davids (D-KS) beat 4-term incumbent Kevin Yoder in 2018

Earlier this year, the documentary "Knock Down the House" was released, chronicling the efforts of AOC and three other women in their runs for public office:

• Cori Bush failed to beat 9-term incumbent William Lacy Clay (D-MO) in 2018, getting 37% of the vote
• Paula Swearengin failed to beat 4-term incumbent Joe Manchin III (D-WV) in 2018, getting 30% of the vote
• Amy Vilela failed to win the primary in 2018, getting 9% of the vote

Cori Bush and Paula Swearengin will be trying again in 2020, and Amy Vilela is campaigning for Bernie Sanders instead, though she may try again in 2022.

 

[lpetrich]

In list form,

• Marie Newman is challenging 8-term incumbent Dan Lipinski (D-IL)
• Jessica Cisneros is challenging 8-term incumbent Henry Cuellar (D-TX)
• Melanie D'Arrigo is challenging 2-term incumbent Tom Suozzi (D-NY)
• Alex Morse is challenging 16-term incumbent Richard Neal (D-MA)
• Mckayla Wilkes and Briana Urbana are challenging 20-term incumbent Steny Hoyer (D-MD)
• Agatha Bacelar, Shahid Buttar, and Tom Gallagher are challenging 17-term incumbent Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)

Mckayla Wilkes Is Trying To Take Down The Second Most Powerful Democrat In The House - "Inspired By AOC, A Young Progressive Woman Is Trying To Take Down The Second Most Powerful Democrat In The House -- Mckayla Wilkes, inspired by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, sees her focus on Medicare for All and the Green New Deal as a way to beat Rep. Steny Hoyer." Briana Urbana is running on essentially the same platform.

Shahid Buttar’s Campaign to Unseat House Speaker Nancy Pelosi - California Globe

This 27-Year-Old Wants To Lead A Progressive Rebellion to Take Down Nancy Pelosi - VICE - "Just don't call her another AOC."

She wants to unseat someone who has been in Congress for longer than she has been alive. Someone that some people have warned her not to mention.

Bacelar has a lot of things to sort out in the early going of this underdog campaign. To name another, she needs to decide whether she fashions herself as the next Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Everyone around her seems to want her to. So much so that a two-person film crew flew in from London and is handing bystanders waivers to use their likenesses in an upcoming documentary, “Agatha for Congress (working title),” which they’re betting can be the next “Knock Down the House.”

But while AOC hammed it up for the camera, Bacelar seems deeply uncomfortable with the attention.

“I don't see anyone else with cameras following them. Like, why me?” she says. “I’m trying to acknowledge certain similarities, but also just be me.”

She doesn't consider it likely that she will win, but she wants to advertise herself. Like finishing second in the primary, which means that in California's top-two system, she will move on to the general election.

Bacelar doesn’t have Ocasio-Cortez’s ebullience or moral righteousness. She doesn’t work a room, and she isn’t backed by insurgent money or buoyed by an ethnological demographic shift, like AOC was. Instead, Bacelar believes the Bay Area’s tech boom and the resulting influx of young voting-age tech workers is her ticket to victory. The city’s average age is 38.5, and most young people don’t vote. But she’s got an app for that.

AB seems rather introverted, unlike AOC's being very extroverted. But then again, some introverts have made it to the White House.

 

[Worldtraveller]

One of things I'm seeing is that it's time to amend the constitution again to put term limits on the house and senate.

My idea: pass an amendment that repeals the 22nd, and replaces it with a 12 year limit on the house, senate, and presidency. At most, if one serves in both houses, and the presidency, one could theoretically serve in the government for 36 years, but we have senators and house members that already do that, and they get entrenched, and almost always wind up corrupted (the few that weren't already).

 

[lpetrich]

But this trend is extremely predictable and happens over and over. Dems win congress. Then they get cocky. They go against the moderates, go far left. Eventually enough moderates get kicked out and then they go republican. Then the republicans take over. This happens about every 10 years or so.

What do you consider "far left"?

 

[Jarhyn]

But this trend is extremely predictable and happens over and over. Dems win congress. Then they get cocky. They go against the moderates, go far left. Eventually enough moderates get kicked out and then they go republican. Then the republicans take over. This happens about every 10 years or so.

What do you consider "far left"?

Probably "anything to the left of Nixon"?

 

[Derec]

Finish him! Of course the DCCC has a long history of not supporting progressives, so it is not like any of this is new. I suspect Lipinski will fall as women turn out at the polls to vote against politicians that have not been supporting important women's issues. This is going to be an ongoing battle for a number of future election cycles.

You seem to be quite obsessed about this idea of female vote.

In any case, it's not a good idea if Democrats fill Congress with the sort of "Bizarro Tea Party" radicals. Four squad members are more than enough! By the way, did you guys hear that Ilhan Omar is getting divorced? I am guessing the reason is that affair.

 

[Derec]

What do you consider "far left"?

Anybody supported by AOC.

 

[Derec]

In list form,

• Marie Newman is challenging 8-term incumbent Dan Lipinski (D-IL)
• Jessica Cisneros is challenging 8-term incumbent Henry Cuellar (D-TX)
• Melanie D'Arrigo is challenging 2-term incumbent Tom Suozzi (D-NY)
• Alex Morse is challenging 16-term incumbent Richard Neal (D-MA)
• Mckayla Wilkes and Briana Urbana are challenging 20-term incumbent Steny Hoyer (D-MD)
• Agatha Bacelar, Shahid Buttar, and Tom Gallagher are challenging 17-term incumbent Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)

What they are basically doing is trying to remove experienced Democrats.

Also, "Shahid"? That's what Arabs call suicide bombers and other dead terrorists.

Mckayla Wilkes Is Trying To Take Down The Second Most Powerful Democrat In The House - "Inspired By AOC, A Young Progressive Woman Is Trying To Take Down The Second Most Powerful Democrat In The House -- Mckayla Wilkes, inspired by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, sees her focus on Medicare for All and the Green New Deal as a way to beat Rep. Steny Hoyer." Briana Urbana is running on essentially the same platform.

Hopefully they end up canceling each other out. By the way, this McKayla spent time in jail for driving with a suspended license. Very responsible!

Shahid Buttar’s Campaign to Unseat House Speaker Nancy Pelosi - California Globe
This 27-Year-Old Wants To Lead A Progressive Rebellion to Take Down Nancy Pelosi - VICE - "Just don't call her another AOC."

They think Nancy Pelosi of all people is not left-wing enough? That's almost as stupid as Joe Kennedy primarying Markey in the Senate.

 

[RVonse]

No. They won't. The reason they took power before was because not enough progressives were driving the party, and country, left. People started to see both parties as the same, and the youth of America continued to stay home because the party continued to ignore their needs.

The way to keep conservatives out of power is not mythical 'moderates'.

"Why vote, both parties are the same, liars and corrupt". That's what keeps republicans in power: failing to actually oppose them, and capitulation to their asymmetrical tactics.

Jarhyn: you're my favorite poster on this forum. You are the only one to have ever given me neg rep. And I appreciate that! But your weakness is always wanting to push away those who don't 100% agree with your position. Moderates are not the enemy. The real group sending us down the toilet are the far right. We will feel their power greatly over the next 30 years due to the supreme court. Finally, I won't give much credence to the "youth of America" until they start voting. If they can't put down their video games for 30 minutes and vote, we shouldn't bother trying to court them...

I disagree with both of you and so does Chris Hedges. The real problem with our country is Corporate Totalitarianism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBcOyv8LZ8s&t=35s

Its been the problem long before Trump and still very much alive today. And of all the democratic candidates, Elizabeth Warren seems to be the only one who has a platform to address the corporate and elite community that now runs the US. For this reason, I think she will be the only person who can compete against Trump.

The average person does not really care about a fake Russia scandal or a trumped up Bidan scandal. But they sure do care about what will be the end game for the US. If Trump manages to keep the economy from tanking before the next election, Warren will be the only chance to defeat him.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Finish him! Of course the DCCC has a long history of not supporting progressives, so it is not like any of this is new. I suspect Lipinski will fall as women turn out at the polls to vote against politicians that have not been supporting important women's issues. This is going to be an ongoing battle for a number of future election cycles.

You seem to be quite obsessed about this idea of female vote.

In any case, it's not a good idea if Democrats fill Congress with the sort of "Bizarro Tea Party" radicals. Four squad members are more than enough! By the way, did you guys hear that Ilhan Omar is getting divorced? I am guessing the reason is that affair.

I am not obsessed. I am simply able to read the various polls and surveys that indicate that women are not supporting Trump or the GOP. It is this rather stark situation that hes Trump's approval ratings hovering over a year now at very low 40's. Women, whether Democrats or Independents will be gunning for the GOP on voting day, and they are going to turn out in large numbers. In 2018, 52% of voters were women, 48% men. The hand writing is on the wall. The GOP has been measured and has been found wanting. Women are not going to stay home on voting day 2020. The big question is not will Trump lose. Trump is gone. It is rather, can the Senate be flipped? And then will the new women voters start sweeping away the blue dog Democrats and start transitioning to a more progressive Democratic party?

To get votes, the now chastened GOP will have to decide. Cling to the far right, or moderate to more women friendly policies and positions? You on the right wanted a culture war? The right is about to get one. And we are going to see a realignment of Democratic politics that will start in earnest post 2020 election.

Again, this is something that the polls and surveys indicate is starting to happen now. Pew shows only 31% of women approve of Trump. Another recent poll has 59% of women not supporting Trump or leaning to not supporting Trump. A mighty beast is stirring out their which almost nobody seems to be paying attention to.

Save a copy of this post and see if I was right come November, 2020.

 

[Harry Bosch]

But this trend is extremely predictable and happens over and over. Dems win congress. Then they get cocky. They go against the moderates, go far left. Eventually enough moderates get kicked out and then they go republican. Then the republicans take over. This happens about every 10 years or so.

What do you consider "far left"?

That's a difficult question. And it changes depending on where you are and where you live. For example, on this forum I'm considered to be a far right person because I'm extremely pro-business. On another forum I'm considered far left because I'm pro-life and pro-environment. I think that in general moderates are those who are in middle politically: they mostly prefer status quo, fiscally conservative, socially liberal, comfortable with a safety net, want a fair system, and etc. I would describe people on the left as those who are more interested in social justice, want a significantly higher safety net, pro-choice, pro gun regulation, pro union. I would describe those on the right as wanting a smaller safety net, less taxes, less regulation, prolife, pro gun, and etc. IMO: moderates and those on the right and left still support the system. I would describe those on the far right and far left as those who have opinions so far out of the mainstream that they want to dramatically change the system. I would describe far left as those who want a socialist system: means of production owned by the government or the workers. Outlaw incentive. No tolerance of other systems is allowed.

I've seen polls that state that people who identify with the "far left" represent about 8% of the population. A roughly equal amount equal the "far right". So again, I'd define people who dramatic change to the system as being far left or right or "extremists".