Do the background checks for gun purchases really matter much anymore??

[Loren Pechtel]

https://ghostgunner.net/

It's long been possible for a machinist to make their own firearms, especially if they just make the lower receiver and buy the rest of the parts. That used to be something that needed skill to do, however.

In recent years it's been possible for an unskilled person to do it with expensive CNC milling equipment.

Now there's a $1,500 CNC mill that does the job.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

https://ghostgunner.net/

It's long been possible for a machinist to make their own firearms, especially if they just make the lower receiver and buy the rest of the parts. That used to be something that needed skill to do, however.

In recent years it's been possible for an unskilled person to do it with expensive CNC milling equipment.

Now there's a $1,500 CNC mill that does the job.

You can get around background checks easily, so making your own is only because you are an artisan or just plain stupid.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

https://ghostgunner.net/

It's long been possible for a machinist to make their own firearms, especially if they just make the lower receiver and buy the rest of the parts. That used to be something that needed skill to do, however.

In recent years it's been possible for an unskilled person to do it with expensive CNC milling equipment.

Now there's a $1,500 CNC mill that does the job.

You can get around background checks easily, so making your own is only because you are an artisan or just plain stupid.

You currently can. I'm saying that an airtight background check system does little good because of things like this.

 

[ronburgundy]

You can get around background checks easily, so making your own is only because you are an artisan or just plain stupid.

You currently can. I'm saying that an airtight background check system does little good because of things like this.

The background check will still force them to use illegal means to obtain a gun, and that is good. That way the second they are found with that gun, even before they make any use of it, they can be put in prison for what ought to be decades.

 

[barbos]

How many machinists or people with access to CNC milling equipment went on killing spree?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

You currently can. I'm saying that an airtight background check system does little good because of things like this.

The background check will still force them to use illegal means to obtain a gun, and that is good. That way the second they are found with that gun, even before they make any use of it, they can be put in prison for what ought to be decades.

But not everyone who buys a gun without a background check has committed a crime or will need to resort to illegal means.

 

[ronburgundy]

The background check will still force them to use illegal means to obtain a gun, and that is good. That way the second they are found with that gun, even before they make any use of it, they can be put in prison for what ought to be decades.

But not everyone who buys a gun without a background check has committed a crime or will need to resort to illegal means.

That's because the current laws are absurd. IT ought to be a criminal act to buy, or possess any gun without a background check, a wait, and not via a licensed dealer selling guns built by a licensed manufacturer. Loren is saying that checks are pointless, even if the laws were as tight as possible in requiring them, because people could obtain illegal weapons via black market manufacturing system enabled by cheap technology. I am saying if the laws were sane that would be criminal an the second they are found with such a gun they go to prison along with everyone involved with making or selling such guns.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You can get around background checks easily, so making your own is only because you are an artisan or just plain stupid.

You currently can. I'm saying that an airtight background check system does little good because of things like this.

That is true. Seat belts also don't work 100% effectively, therefore we should get rid of seat belt laws too.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You currently can. I'm saying that an airtight background check system does little good because of things like this.

The background check will still force them to use illegal means to obtain a gun, and that is good. That way the second they are found with that gun, even before they make any use of it, they can be put in prison for what ought to be decades.

You can prosecute them today for an illegal gun.

If you want to make that easier my proposal for a gunner's license (licensing the operator, not the gun!) would make it much easier to catch the guy. Just like a cop now can arrest anyone they find behind the wheel with no driver's license I'm figuring they should be able to arrest anyone they find with a gun but no license.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You currently can. I'm saying that an airtight background check system does little good because of things like this.

That is true. Seat belts also don't work 100% effectively, therefore we should get rid of seat belt laws too.

That's a totally invalid comparison.


Rather, I'm saying you don't put a bank-vault door on your house when you have glass windows.

This gadget is a glass window to gun regulation.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That is true. Seat belts also don't work 100% effectively, therefore we should get rid of seat belt laws too.

That's a totally invalid comparison.

Rather, I'm saying you don't put a bank-vault door on your house when you have glass windows.

This gadget is a glass window to gun regulation.

Good point... get rid of the door lock all together. You've got glass windows!

 

[Crazy Eddie]

You can get around background checks easily, so making your own is only because you are an artisan or just plain stupid.

You currently can. I'm saying that an airtight background check system does little good because of things like this.

Right, because petty criminals need guns so desperately that they're going to invest in a $1500 CNC machine and spend the time to learn how to use it to actually manufacture their own firearms.

This scenario is self-defeating. If I had the resources to set up and operate a CNC machine in my garage, I wouldn't NEED a gun. Hell, I'd make a lot more money selling bootleg car parts and office furniture than I could ever hope to make robbing liquor stores.

Criminal background checks are intended to keep firearms out of the hands of people who are likely to use them to commit crimes. Spree killers and mass murderers have an alarming tendency to PASS background checks, so this wouldn't affect them either way.

 

[NobleSavage]

I check out the "dark markets" on tor every now and then. Someone is selling Glocks for about 3x retail so about $1500. With these CNC machines I'll bet someone starts sell AR lowers -- or whatever you can't legally buy.

 

[bleubird]

I have guns that I bought from private parties.Some hard to trace even if used in a crime.However,all were from people I knew well.The last gun I bought was from a dealer with full back round check.
As to the OP,CNC is not as easy as one would think.Loren,as an IT guy you must know that it is more than 1/0's.As an ex machinist I know one must have a feel for the material and the tooling.And,I bet that $1500 machine is crap.

 

[NobleSavage]

As an ex machinist I know one must have a feel for the material and the tooling.

Software will solve that problem, in time.

And,I bet that $1500 machine is crap.

For now, I'm sure you are right. In 10 years?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I have guns that I bought from private parties.Some hard to trace even if used in a crime.However,all were from people I knew well.The last gun I bought was from a dealer with full back round check.
As to the OP,CNC is not as easy as one would think.Loren,as an IT guy you must know that it is more than 1/0's.As an ex machinist I know one must have a feel for the material and the tooling.And,I bet that $1500 machine is crap.

I ran into this gadget from an article by a reporter who actually built a gun with it. A gunsmith said the part looked good, the gun actually worked and fired 100 rounds successfully.

 

[fromderinside]

I have guns that I bought from private parties.Some hard to trace even if used in a crime.However,all were from people I knew well.The last gun I bought was from a dealer with full back round check.
As to the OP,CNC is not as easy as one would think.Loren,as an IT guy you must know that it is more than 1/0's.As an ex machinist I know one must have a feel for the material and the tooling.And,I bet that $1500 machine is crap.

I ran into this gadget from an article by a reporter who actually built a gun with it. A gunsmith said the part looked good, the gun actually worked and fired 100 rounds successfully.

OK so registration isn't useful because it can be beaten. Change registration requirements to meet current technology. Require all firearms to have serial numbers identifying the source and owner of the weapon. That might mean a stamp on a gun when it is sold or it might mean including a number that requires submission to authorities when it is printed, then again when it is sold or exchanged. Don't keep stuff out op peoples hands. Just make tracing weapons more reliable and failure to do so more arduous for those who want to avoid detection.
A righteous goal is to keep scofflaws form illegally getting access to and using weapons without detection.

 

[ronburgundy]

The background check will still force them to use illegal means to obtain a gun, and that is good. That way the second they are found with that gun, even before they make any use of it, they can be put in prison for what ought to be decades.

You can prosecute them today for an illegal gun.

If you want to make that easier my proposal for a gunner's license (licensing the operator, not the gun!) would make it much easier to catch the guy. Just like a cop now can arrest anyone they find behind the wheel with no driver's license I'm figuring they should be able to arrest anyone they find with a gun but no license.

I'm all in favor of gunner's licenses, but all working guns should be licensed too with a stamped serial number. Anyone with a gun without a stamp, registered and linked to their personal gunner's license is arrested.

In addition, every few years, each gun owner should have to show that they still possess all guns registered to them. Same goes for all gun makers and dealers. They must be accountable for showing that every gun that came into their possession went to a legal owner.

FBI stats show that most black market guns came from legal guns owners selling them illegally into the black market.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I ran into this gadget from an article by a reporter who actually built a gun with it. A gunsmith said the part looked good, the gun actually worked and fired 100 rounds successfully.

OK so registration isn't useful because it can be beaten. Change registration requirements to meet current technology. Require all firearms to have serial numbers identifying the source and owner of the weapon. That might mean a stamp on a gun when it is sold or it might mean including a number that requires submission to authorities when it is printed, then again when it is sold or exchanged. Don't keep stuff out op peoples hands. Just make tracing weapons more reliable and failure to do so more arduous for those who want to avoid detection.
A righteous goal is to keep scofflaws form illegally getting access to and using weapons without detection.

And how do you mandate that the weapon gets a serial number which is registered when it's printed?!?!

- - - Updated - - -

You can prosecute them today for an illegal gun.

If you want to make that easier my proposal for a gunner's license (licensing the operator, not the gun!) would make it much easier to catch the guy. Just like a cop now can arrest anyone they find behind the wheel with no driver's license I'm figuring they should be able to arrest anyone they find with a gun but no license.

I'm all in favor of gunner's licenses, but all working guns should be licensed too with a stamped serial number. Anyone with a gun without a stamp, registered and linked to their personal gunner's license is arrested.

In addition, every few years, each gun owner should have to show that they still possess all guns registered to them. Same goes for all gun makers and dealers. They must be accountable for showing that every gun that came into their possession went to a legal owner.

FBI stats show that most black market guns came from legal guns owners selling them illegally into the black market.

I find that hard to believe as in most states there's no requirements for a person-to-person sale.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I have guns that I bought from private parties.Some hard to trace even if used in a crime.However,all were from people I knew well.The last gun I bought was from a dealer with full back round check.
As to the OP,CNC is not as easy as one would think.Loren,as an IT guy you must know that it is more than 1/0's.As an ex machinist I know one must have a feel for the material and the tooling.And,I bet that $1500 machine is crap.

I ran into this gadget from an article by a reporter who actually built a gun with it. A gunsmith said the part looked good, the gun actually worked and fired 100 rounds successfully.

You should really stop trying to store your sources in the vault of your memory. It isn't nearly as good as you think it is.

I scanned about 20 different articles referring to it and it has quickly become apparent that most if not all of these articles are, in fact, press releases with no actual reporting going on. And maybe I'm missing something, but there's only one reference to a weapon firing 100 rounds successfully:

I grabbed a 100 round box of Winchester white box .45 cal. ammo from Wal-Mart and couple grease gun mags and I headed out to the field. I had some .45 dummy rounds that I tested out first to insure the rifle would load a round properly, as well as eject it with no problems. There were no problems with the dummy rounds, so I popped in a mag with live ammo. I was kinda leery at first, because I didn't know what to expect since I had never shot a .45 caliber AR15. I shot the first round, no problems. I shot the 2nd round, no problems. I ended up shooting the whole 100 round box of ammo without one problem what so ever. Shooting the .45 caliber round in the AR15 is SWEEEET!!! I enjoyed shooting it so much that I grabbed the extra ammo from my concealed carry, and loaded up another grease gun mag. I didn't know the AR45 was going to be this much fun, otherwise I would have grabbed another couple hundred rounds. The cool thing is, the AR45 isn't very loud at all. I started out shooting with hearing protection, but half way through I decided I didn't them it. It is no where near as loud as a .45 pistol. After the testing of the AR45, all I can say is AWESOME!!!!

He's not a gunsmith. He's a hobbyist with a background in aerospace engineering and significant amount of experience working with CNC machines; interestingly, he didn't use a Ghost Gun machine to manufacture the lower receiver.

You've conflated two COMPLETELY different stories in your head and one of them isn't doesn't even seem to be legit.