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fine tuning argument

Snowflakes, tornadoes, hurricanes all consist at a high level of order. Stars and planets as well. What you seem to be forgetting is that in between these items, there is a tremendous lack of order. Flip a coin long enough, and you'll get 10 heads in a row. The planet is billions of years old. That is a lot of time to flip a coin.

He is yet to give us examples of things that he detects as not designed. He made an attempt early in this thread where he stated that sand dunes were not designed, explicitly to contrast sand dunes to a sand sculpture of Jesus that very clearly was. When it was pointed out that this violated his claim that the natural universe was designed and bore the appearance of being designed, he tried to walk it back by saying the creator did not intend to create sand dunes, but he/it did create sand to serve as the building block for humans, or something like that. At this point Lion IRC likely understands the contradictions inherent to his position, and has apparently abandoned any attempt to support his views.

It should also be noted that Lion IRC has not given us a reason as to why he believes the universe appears to be designed and fine tuned for life. He has simply asserted that it appears to be so.

Isn't that always the case with teleological arguments?

They're really just elaborate argument from ignorance fallacy wrapped in a lot of flower rhetoric.

We know that watches are designed, not because they are complex, but because we have seen humans making them. Natural things can be simple or complex; created things can be simple or complex. Arguing "It's designed because it's complicated" is simply a nonsense argument that fails to provide a coherent test for determining if something is designed or not.

Only a designer is undesigned, and that's because they only exist in our imaginations. If real and we could observe one, it wouldn't be magical anymore. It's why for millions of believers Santa and his reindeer can fly.
 
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