Green Party Presidential candidates kept off the ballot in Wisconsin

[lpetrich]

Wisconsin Supreme Court keeps Green Party off presidential ballot and allows ballots to be mailed on time - CNNPolitics
and
Wisconsin Supreme Court rules Green Party presidential ticket is ineligible for state ballot - The Washington Post

From CNN:

Ordering local clerks to add Green Party candidate Howie Hawkins to the ballot at this late stage would "create a substantial possibility of confusion among voters who had already received, and possibly returned, the original ballots," the court added.

Democrats will claim the ruling as a win for their nominee, Joe Biden, because Hawkins could have played spoiler in a state that had one of the closest margins in 2016.

In 2016, Green Party candidate Jill Stein received 31,072 votes in Wisconsin, more than the 22,748-vote margin that handed Trump a victory in the state over Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.

From WaPo:

The court’s decision last week to halt the distribution of mail ballots while it considered the Green Party petition raised the prospect that a third-party candidate could be on the ballot in November, potentially siphoning votes from Democratic nominee Joe Biden. Rapper Kanye West is also fighting in court to get on the ballot in Wisconsin after his petition was denied by the election commission.

In a state that Donald Trump won by just under 23,000 votes four years ago — less than a percentage point — a third-party candidate could attract a difference-making number of votes. In 2016, Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein won more than 30,000 votes in Wisconsin.

Bob Spindell, a Republican member of the Wisconsin Elections Commission who voted to allow the Green Party on the ballot, said in an interview Monday that partisan leanings influenced the actions of many of those involved in both the Green Party and the West cases.

“To be truthful with you, the Republicans wanted West to be on the ballot, and Republicans wanted the Green Party to be on the ballot,” Spindell said. “Democrats did not want the West or Green Party tickets to be on the ballot.”

The Green Party would have attracted votes from the more liberal Democrats, and the Republicans were hoping that Kanye West would get votes from black people who didn't want to vote for yet another honky.

 

[lpetrich]

More from the WaPo:

The potential threat of a third-party ticket has been on the minds of Democrats and liberals, who have filed ballot-access challenges in other states, too. In Pennsylvania, because of pending litigation over whether the Green Party will appear on the ballot, the secretary of state so far has been unable to certify the presidential candidate list.

Also Monday, more than 170 environmental activists and scientists, including the founder of Earth Day and leaders of the Natural Resources Defense Council and the Sierra Club, distributed a letter urging Americans to support Biden and not the Green Party. “Twenty years ago, the Green Party snatched the White House from a climate-change leader and handed it to George W. Bush,” the letter states. “In Florida, no less than 97,488 progressive voters snubbed Al Gore for Ralph Nader, letting Bush win the state, and therefore the presidency, by 537 votes, or so the Supreme Court ruled.”

Kanye West’s presidential bid bolstered by Republican operatives in at least five states - The Washington Post

Most minor-party Presidential candidacies seem like vanity candidacies to me. The Libertarian and Green Parties are the biggest of these parties, but as far as I can tell, they only try to elect Presidents. Some candidates associated with these two parties have gotten elected, however, though mostly on a local level and some on a state level.

I watched the People's Party convention video, and there was a bit on the end about organizing local hubs and state parties -- that suggest that this party is serious about acting like a real political party.

 

[Patooka]

How do third parties expect to be relevant in the US with no one in the senate or congress?

...Nevermind, I see their "logic" now.

 

[Swammerdami]

Earlier I read that the Wisconsin Supreme Court voted 4-3 on partisan lines, ordering a temporary halt and making absurd demands.

What happened? One of the 4 GOP-appointed judges part of the "Lincoln Project"?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Wisconsin Supreme Court keeps Green Party off presidential ballot and allows ballots to be mailed on time - CNNPolitics
and
Wisconsin Supreme Court rules Green Party presidential ticket is ineligible for state ballot - The Washington Post

From CNN:

Ordering local clerks to add Green Party candidate Howie Hawkins to the ballot at this late stage would "create a substantial possibility of confusion among voters who had already received, and possibly returned, the original ballots," the court added.

Democrats will claim the ruling as a win for their nominee, Joe Biden, because Hawkins could have played spoiler in a state that had one of the closest margins in 2016.

In 2016, Green Party candidate Jill Stein received 31,072 votes in Wisconsin, more than the 22,748-vote margin that handed Trump a victory in the state over Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.

From WaPo:

The court’s decision last week to halt the distribution of mail ballots while it considered the Green Party petition raised the prospect that a third-party candidate could be on the ballot in November, potentially siphoning votes from Democratic nominee Joe Biden. Rapper Kanye West is also fighting in court to get on the ballot in Wisconsin after his petition was denied by the election commission.

In a state that Donald Trump won by just under 23,000 votes four years ago — less than a percentage point — a third-party candidate could attract a difference-making number of votes. In 2016, Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein won more than 30,000 votes in Wisconsin.

Bob Spindell, a Republican member of the Wisconsin Elections Commission who voted to allow the Green Party on the ballot, said in an interview Monday that partisan leanings influenced the actions of many of those involved in both the Green Party and the West cases.

“To be truthful with you, the Republicans wanted West to be on the ballot, and Republicans wanted the Green Party to be on the ballot,” Spindell said. “Democrats did not want the West or Green Party tickets to be on the ballot.”

The Green Party would have attracted votes from the more liberal Democrats, and the Republicans were hoping that Kanye West would get votes from black people who didn't want to vote for yet another honky.

People are wising up to these republican tactics. Or the dems are finally starting to wise up.

 

[lpetrich]

Marc E. Elias on Twitter: "BREAKING: Supreme Court REJECTS GOP's final desperate effort to get Green Party on Montana ballot. https://t.co/F6xs6A9Rbr" / Twitter

Montana Republicans bankrolled Green Party ballot access

The Montana Republican Party bankrolled the signature-gathering effort to get the Montana Green Party certified for the 2020 election ballot, an official for a political committee said Tuesday.

Democrats — who last week asked the state commissioner of political practices to find out who paid for the signature gathering effort — immediately accused the GOP of election fraud and of propping up a leftist political party as a means to siphon votes from Democratic candidates this fall.

Like this:

The GOP paid Advanced Micro Targeting, Wenetta said.

Workers hired by Advanced Micro Targeting turned in enough signatures for the Green Party to qualify for the Montana ballot, and several people filed as Green Party candidates on March 9, the filing deadline.

Green Party officials have disavowed most of those candidates. Party officials did not respond to a message seeking comment on Tuesday.

It seems that the Republican Party recognizes that there is a such thing as spoiler candidates, even if some people deny that.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why was the Green Party excluded originally? Not the biggest fan of this Democrat tactic.

Candidates are required to list their current address on nominating petitions, and according to guidance on the Elections Commission's website, if any information is incorrect, their signatures must be rejected.

"I don't think it's unreasonable or unfair to expect that candidates who want to be President of the United States can follow the clear rules that each state sets out," said Jeff Mandell, a Democratic attorney from Madison who filed the complaint.
State law requires independent presidential candidates to file at least 2,000 signatures from valid Wisconsin electors to get on the ballot. Hawkins and Walker turned in 3,737 when all their signatures are counted.

But according to the complaint, 2,046 of those signatures appeared on petitions that don't list Walker's current address. The complaint contends those signatures should be stricken, taking Hawkins and Green below threshold needed for ballot access.

Granted, it was a stupid error on their own part to forget to fill in the form properly!

Also, of note, the Partisan divide on the WI Supreme Court is 4-3 in favor of the GOP.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Marc E. Elias on Twitter: "??????BREAKING: Supreme Court REJECTS GOP's final desperate effort to get Green Party on Montana ballot. https://t.co/F6xs6A9Rbr" / Twitter

Montana Republicans bankrolled Green Party ballot access

The Montana Republican Party bankrolled the signature-gathering effort to get the Montana Green Party certified for the 2020 election ballot, an official for a political committee said Tuesday.

Democrats — who last week asked the state commissioner of political practices to find out who paid for the signature gathering effort — immediately accused the GOP of election fraud and of propping up a leftist political party as a means to siphon votes from Democratic candidates this fall.

Like this:

The GOP paid Advanced Micro Targeting, Wenetta said.

Workers hired by Advanced Micro Targeting turned in enough signatures for the Green Party to qualify for the Montana ballot, and several people filed as Green Party candidates on March 9, the filing deadline.

Green Party officials have disavowed most of those candidates. Party officials did not respond to a message seeking comment on Tuesday.

It seems that the Republican Party recognizes that there is a such thing as spoiler candidates, even if some people deny that.

The green party has so greatly damaged the environment by helping the republicans.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why was the Green Party excluded originally? Not the biggest fan of this Democrat tactic.

Candidates are required to list their current address on nominating petitions, and according to guidance on the Elections Commission's website, if any information is incorrect, their signatures must be rejected.

"I don't think it's unreasonable or unfair to expect that candidates who want to be President of the United States can follow the clear rules that each state sets out," said Jeff Mandell, a Democratic attorney from Madison who filed the complaint.
State law requires independent presidential candidates to file at least 2,000 signatures from valid Wisconsin electors to get on the ballot. Hawkins and Walker turned in 3,737 when all their signatures are counted.

But according to the complaint, 2,046 of those signatures appeared on petitions that don't list Walker's current address. The complaint contends those signatures should be stricken, taking Hawkins and Green below threshold needed for ballot access.

Granted, it was a stupid error on their own part to forget to fill in the form properly!

Also, of note, the Partisan divide on the WI Supreme Court is 4-3 in favor of the GOP.

Because it was a Republican effort to get the signatures. I forget the exact issue but that caused campaign finance problems.

 

[Valjean]

Until we can adopt ranked choice voting, millions of people will be prevented from voting for the candidates they really prefer, and forced to vote strategically to prevent candidates they really dislike from being elected.

 

[Patooka]

Until we can adopt ranked choice voting, millions of people will be prevented from voting for the candidates they really prefer, and forced to vote strategically to prevent candidates they really dislike from being elected.

Trust me, that happens with preferential voting as well. It's all about being an adult when it comes to one's vote. Both US Green and Libertarian Parties adopt a "do it my way or kiss my arse you worthless cunts", kind of attitude. That allows them to remain pure and insignificant so it gives them the perceived opportunity to snipe on the the sidelines. To actually have skin in the game would require them to put their money where their mouth is. Compromise is cancer to those people.

Fringe irrelevant groups like the Greens or Libertarians will only gain significance if and only if they gain seats in Congress and the Senate. And that includes State legislation as well. Until they are prepared to put in some honest work, it's never going to happen.

 

[lpetrich]

I like this about the Green Party:

Greg Афиногенов on Twitter: "rather than argue about voting Green for the umpteenth time ..." / Twitter

rather than argue about voting Green for the umpteenth time I'll point you to this really crucial essay about how the electoral Green Party (and its obsession with ballot access) emerged by destroying the social movement from which it sprang

as I understand the whole dismal saga, the electoral Greens basically repeated what the Democrats have historically done to social movements but on a smaller scale, all in a doomed effort to repeat the success of the German Greens (who were themselves coopted rapidly in the 90s)

if you don't want to end up like Canada with its useless NDP (as a best case scenario), you have to move beyond seeing "the two party system" as the basic problem

(Doug Newman) At least the German Greens and the NDP exercise some power! (I'm not commenting on whether they're better than the parties that already existed, but I mean, just from a purely mercenary standpoint: they win sometimes!)

(GA) right, that's what I mean by best case scenario

(DN) I wouldn't even describe it as a best-case scenario given the way the US political system works.

The Greens as a Social Movement: Values and Conflicts | Institute for Social Ecology

By the late 1990s, Green work at the local level was largely overshadowed by the pursuit of permanent ballot access at the state level, and by Ralph Nader’s 1996 and 2000 campaigns for president. Greens at all levels came to focus almost entirely on electoral work, and those who identified primarily with the movement-building vision of the Greens increasingly drifted away. Ralph Nader drew hundreds of enthusiastic people to participate in his presidential campaigns, but his promise to build the Green Party as a political force at the state and local levels went largely unrealized. Nader’s own decision not to join or actively participate in any existing Green formation contributed to the US Greens’ organizational weaknesses. By the summer of 2004, Greens of all political stripes were intensely divided over whether to support Nader’s third run for president, or to support the “official” Green candidate, Texas lawyer and activist David Cobb, and encourage Greens in electoral “swing states” to vote for the Democratic candidate, John Kerry.

Seems to me that they ought to run their candidates as Democrats. Consider AOC. She seems like she'd be a very good Green Party politician, but she's a Democrat instead. She never would have won if she hadn't run as a Democrat. She would still have had to take on long-time incumbent Joe Crowley, and she would have had to do so without a "D" next to her name. She would also have had to get more votes than she needed to by competing in a primary. From Joseph Crowley - Ballotpedia in the general elections:

2018: 141,122, 2016: 178,132, 2014: 67,372, 2012: 170,995, 2010: 97,971, 2008: 182,506, 2006: 93,741, 2004: 170,854, 2002: 100,176, 2000: 153,374, 1998: 102,885

But by running as a Democrat, AOC needed much fewer votes. In 2018, JC got 12,880 votes and she got 16,898 votes, for a total of 29,778. She claims that she got an increased turnout of 68%, and if that increased turnout was all votes for her, she would have gotten only about 5000 votes.

But in the general election, she would have needed to convince about 40,000 - 50,000 registered Democrats to vote for her, or else she would have to have gotten 100,000 additional votes.

 

[lpetrich]

Searching for "Green Party" in Twitter gives lots of juicy comments about this affair, like

Ben Spielberg on Twitter: "You can't make this up: Wisconsin Democrats just justified blocking the Green Party from the ballot by saying that allowing them on would delay printing & mailing. Meanwhile, Pennsylvania Democrats are delaying printing & mailing in order to block the Green Party from the ballot." / Twitter

Kyle Griffin on Twitter: "A Republican member of the Wisconsin Elections Commission advised a Green Party representative about who to hire as an attorney after its presidential nominee was denied ballot access in the state, records obtained by The Associated Press show. https://t.co/1OhAsBiZ0r" / Twitter
noting
GOP Wisconsin elections commissioner advised Green Party

Canadian-American James on Twitter: "@kylegriffin1 Kanye West was represented in Wisconsin by a GOP operative who represented Trump in court. Republicans have no shame anymore. https://t.co/Cw3je5xXG0" / Twitter
noting
A Well-Connected GOP Strategist Is Helping Kanye West Get on the Ballot in Wisconsin - "Lane Ruhland filed West’s filing paperwork and signatures on Tuesday. She’s also representing President Donald Trump in court."

BallotReady on Twitter: "#ElectionTidbit of the Day: The Green Party of Alaska rejected the national party nominee, Howie Hawkins. They have instead nominated / drafted @GovJVentura, former governor of Minnesota (and of course professional wrester)." / Twitter

'vampire' streaming now link in bio on Twitter: "LOL the Green Party has been blocked from being in the ballot in virginia. Guess I’ll write them in?? Writing in a presidential candidate is high key crank activity and im so happy that’s where my life has led" / Twitter

Natalia Shae on Twitter: "Is the Green Party actually on track to get 5% of the vote this time? Where can I go to see this info? Also what kind of advocacy are they doing to get the vote? I'm new to this. Help me out." / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

Krystal Ball: Dem WAR On Green Party Exposes Voter Suppression Hypocrisy - YouTube - Krystal Ball jumped up and down on the Democratic Party pretty hard on that one. (Metaphorically, of course)

She seemed to pooh-pooh the idea that Republicans are supporting Greens as spoilers, but just because Democrats misbehave doesn't mean that Republicans don't also misbehave -- both sides can be abundantly guilty.

Remove#45 on Twitter: "It's not just Kanye — the GOP is propping up the Green Party too https://t.co/jS3T5Dpxf5" / Twitter
noting
It's not just Kanye — the GOP is propping up the Green Party too

Third-party candidates played a major role in Donald Trump's election in 2016, siphoning off voters from Hillary Clinton and helping Trump eke out wins by the narrowest of margins in enough swing states to hand him a victory — even as he lost the popular vote by 3 million ballots.

Four years later, with Trump down in the polls and facing the possibility of defeat, Republican operatives are making a last-ditch effort to try to recreate that same third-party effect, and are playing a behind-the-scenes role in numerous states to get Kanye West and Green Party presidential nominee Howie Hawkins onto state ballots.

...
And NBC News reported that "people connected to Republican politics" have tried to help West get on the ballot in Missouri, Arkansas, and Illinois — though West was ultimately booted from the ballot in Illinois and failed to collect enough signatures to make the Missouri ballot.

But even if KW and the GP get ballot access, how many people might vote for them?

An NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll from August found that people who voted third party in 2016 overwhelmingly back Biden. According to the poll, 47% of third-party voters from 2016 back Biden, while 20% back Trump.

 

[lpetrich]

• Pennsylvania Supreme Court Boots Green Party Candidate Off November Ballot – NBC10 Philadelphia
• Green Party candidates won't be on ballot in Pennsylvania, state's highest court rules - CBS News
• Election 2020: Pennsylvania Supreme Court rulings are big wins for Biden - CNNPolitics
• Pennsylvania Supreme Court strikes Green Party presidential ticket from ballot, clearing the way for mail ballots to be sent out - The Washington Post

From NBC10:

The Green Party's candidate for president did not strictly follow procedures for getting on Pennsylvania's ballot in the November election and cannot appear on it, the state Supreme Court ruled Thursday, delivering a win for Democrats as Joe Biden tries to capture the battleground state's electoral votes.

The court, with a 5-2 Democratic majority, reversed the ruling by a Republican judge in a lower court on the candidacy of Green Party presidential nominee Howie Hawkins.

All five Democrats on the court joined the majority opinion. The court’s two Republicans agreed the Green Party did not meet the law's requirements, but, in a dissenting opinion, said it might be possible to allow the Green Party to fix it retroactively.

From CBS:

At issue was whether the Green Party properly filed nomination paperwork with the state. The court ruled that Elizabeth Faye Scroggin, the party's Pennsylvania stand-in candidate, did not properly append a candidate affidavit to her nomination papers, as the state election code requires. Instead, Scroggin faxed to the Bureau of Elections a slightly cut-off copy of an affidavit separate from her nomination papers, and notaries didn't see or print it until after the deadline. Because the affidavit was improperly submitted, the party's substitution of Hawkins for Scroggin was also invalid, the Court ruled.

"Was I surprised? No. I knew going in that the affidavit was the key issue," said Lawrence Otter, a Doylestown elections lawyer who represented Hawkins. "When you challenge a nomination paper or petition, you look at everything. If I would have been on the other side, I would have zeroed in on this."

 

[lpetrich]

So the Dem Party got the Green Party booted off of the ballot with a technicality. Like in Wisconsin, where the ballot petitions featured two different addresses for Green VP Angela Walker. Krystal Ball claims that AW moved during the petition.

I'm reminded of AOC's first campaign. She knew that her opponent was likely to try to invalidate some of her ballot-petition signatures on various technical grounds. So she decided to collect 10,000 signatures instead of 1,250 ones. She ended up collecting 5,000 ones, 4 times as much as she needed.


As to the Green Party as a spoiler, some people try to rebut that argument by claiming that it assumes that every GP voter would otherwise have voted Democratic, but that argument is easy to test. Imagine that some fraction of the GP's voters might have voted Republican. What fraction of the GP's voters would have to have voted Democratic to give the Democratic Party's candidate a win in each state?

• 2000 FL: 50.28%
• 2016 PA: 94%
• 2016 MI: 60%
• 2016 WI: 87%

 

[lpetrich]

I recall from somewhere that in 2000, 2/3 of the Green Party's voters might have voted Democratic and 1/3 Republican. That would have given the Democrats victory in Florida. But in 2016, that would have helped the Democrats win in Michigan, but not in Pennsylvania or Wisconsin.

𝕍𝕠𝕥𝕖 𝕗𝕠𝕣 𝕪𝕠𝕦𝕣 𝕝𝕚𝕗𝕖 * on Twitter: "@marceelias Can we all finally agree the Green Party is nothing but a GOP-funded election spoiler with the singular purpose of splitting the Democratic vote?" / Twitter - someone whose avatar picture says "Biden Harris 2020".

I think that that is a gross overstatement, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Republicans are supporting the Greens behind the scenes. One can recognize that and also consider the Democrats' anti-Green efforts undemocratic.

 

[lpetrich]

From AOC's first campaign (2018 Apr 18):
Brand New Congress on Instagram: Repost of AOC post: “This is what ~5,500 grassroots signatures, collected by 141 volunteer witnesses, held by 1 overwhelmingly grateful candidate at midnight looks like!”

Well over the official threshold of 1,250 signatures.

"All weekend, high-priced opposition lawyers were crawling over our petitions to find any excuse to bump me off the ballot. Ultimately, our grassroots 5X effort was too overwhelming. As of midnight last night, no objections were filed to our campaign for Congress."