Imagine there's no religion.

[uzersuperman]

Religion played an essential role in providing a comfortable answer to the question of the purpose of existence and in giving meaning to a short, difficult and inevitable life. This answer, although it is an individual need, becomes a collective contract, a desire to make the agreement reached a proof of its reality. Thus, each society produced a special religion: it has its own rituals, spirituality, duties, and laws, which in my view constitutes a mixture of philosophy, primitive science, and myth: At the same time, it is a system of morals and values, an interpretation of natural phenomena and food for the imagination. Religion formed one of the most important foundations on which ancient civilizations were built, with all that this means in terms of presence in the political, economic and social fields of these countries.

 

[steve_bank]

People are interteting John Lennon. Fascinating.

 

[rousseau]

Lennon sang 'imagine no possessions' while being a multi-millionaire, which tells you most of what you need to know.

It's a pretty song, though.

That's an interesting observation. Lennon evidently saw communism as an ideal, but in practice, he opted for private property--LOTS of private property.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Religion formed one of the most important foundations on which ancient civilizations were built,

I prefer to think that ancient civilizations provided the foundation upon which religions were built. Religion is primarily an outgrowth of human curiosity, a pseudoscience full of pseudo-knowledge, but a search for answers nevertheless, at least at a fundamental level.

As for brother Leroy, I vividly recall how "religious" the drug dealers on campus became after their convictions and release. I think "finding Jesus" was part of their sentence, like having to attend AA meetings after a DUI.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I disagree with what Emerson is saying here. The world's pretensions are very tenacious and most often endure the most blistering attacks on the part of doubters. We all then must live with those pretensions whether we see them as lies or not.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Religion formed one of the most important foundations on which ancient civilizations were built,

I prefer to think that ancient civilizations provided the foundation upon which religions were built.

Actually, there is evidence for religion that long predates the rise of civilization. The early civilizations made those religions into institutions because religion is handy for governing large masses of people.

Religion is primarily an outgrowth of human curiosity, a pseudoscience full of pseudo-knowledge, but a search for answers nevertheless, at least at a fundamental level.

The knowledge sought by religion is not any knowledge but a knowledge that is important to the searcher. So for example if a general wants to lead his troops to victory in an impending battle, then the truth he seeks is that important victory, and he may seek that truth through prayer asking God for it. Defeat, of course, is a truth he will not seek!

As for brother Leroy, I vividly recall how "religious" the drug dealers on campus became after their convictions and release. I think "finding Jesus" was part of their sentence, like having to attend AA meetings after a DUI.

I understand that many convicted felons while in prison will hold up their newfound religious faith as a reason to be paroled. Most parole boards, wisely, are skeptical that a prisoner's conversion truly signifies that the prisoner is truly reformed.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Actually, there is evidence for religion that long predates the rise of civilization. The early civilizations made those religions into institutions because religion is handy for governing large masses of people.

For example? We're not talking about art, even though religion is artistic expression.

 

[rousseau]

I disagree with what Emerson is saying here. The world's pretensions are very tenacious and most often endure the most blistering attacks on the part of doubters. We all then must live with those pretensions whether we see them as lies or not.

I think the point is more along the lines of realizing that there is a type of dishonesty embedded in most of what people say and do. Like Lennon's Imagine - recognizing that it's basically a flowery song meant to emotionally appeal to people to sell records, and has no deeper meaning or insight.

Was Lennon himself aware of this? Most people aren't able to see their own inconsistencies.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I disagree with what Emerson is saying here. The world's pretensions are very tenacious and most often endure the most blistering attacks on the part of doubters. We all then must live with those pretensions whether we see them as lies or not.

I think the point is more along the lines of realizing that there is a type of dishonesty embedded in most of what people say and do.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that most of what we say and do is dishonest although there is no doubt a lot of deceit in what we say and do. Generally people are genuine and we only go astray from that virtue when we think there is a "higher" good in doing so. Those higher goods include the drive for immortality, and that's why the lie of eternal life endures so much criticism.

Like Lennon's Imagine - recognizing that it's basically a flowery song meant to emotionally appeal to people to sell records, and has no deeper meaning or insight.

I'm not so cynical there. Lennon wrote 26 number one hits most of which lacked profound truths, so he didn't need to rise to writing songs with deeper meanings to sell records. I think he sincerely wanted to send a message of peace to the world when he wrote Imagine.

Was Lennon himself aware of this? Most people aren't able to see their own inconsistencies.

I think Lennon was well aware of the superficiality of much of the music the Beatles made. I think he wanted to change that superficiality with his later work.

So getting back to the OP, if I imagine there's no religion, then I imagine that Lennon would never have written Imagine.

 

[Marvin Edwards]

Perhaps Lennon did not realize that a set of beliefs which guide our behavior is a "Faith" and is a "religion". The song "Imagine" is a hymn.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Actually, there is evidence for religion that long predates the rise of civilization. The early civilizations made those religions into institutions because religion is handy for governing large masses of people.

For example? We're not talking about art,

Well, if you rule out religious art as evidence for religion, then it looks like you're making it tough for me to offer evidence for prehistoric religion. But no worries--even aside from the religious artworks from prehistory, there is evidence that neanderthals buried their dead. Many anthropologists see that practice as resulting from a religious impulse. So religion existed long before the time civilization arose.

...even though religion is artistic expression.

Religion is an artistic expression? That's news to me.