my solution to the confederate flag nonsense

[tantric]

there are too many people responding for me to quote and reply to each one individually.

African-American/one drop pollutes - okay, my DNA is 2% sub-saharan african, ergo, i'm black, piss off. i'm not a racist, i don't use those terms because they are *evil*, but if don't you don't know what i'm talking about. from here on out, 'southerners with medium brown skin'.

Pan-Africanism: Nasema kiSwahili. I have a book about Bantu mythology and legends coming out which i wrote to show people that africa isn't homogeneous or Hollywood dark continent. i know perfectly well that all americans, regardless of their 'color' are wazungu - foreign busy-bodies. so what?

i want a symbol of the south that encodes our history all the way back to mother africa. i don't *care* if modern brown skinned southerners know jack shit about africa - i know they don't, cause i do. i don't want the red/green/black flag because that came from Negritude, which is revisionist nonsense anti-history, and beyond that represents only part of southern culture. we need all of it, a unifier.

.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

there are too many people responding for me to quote and reply to each one individually.

African-American/one drop pollutes - okay, my DNA is 2% sub-saharan african, ergo, i'm black, piss off. i'm not a racist, i don't use those terms because they are *evil*, but if don't you don't know what i'm talking about. from here on out, 'southerners with medium brown skin'.

Pan-Africanism: Nasema kiSwahili. I have a book about Bantu mythology and legends coming out which i wrote to show people that africa isn't homogeneous or Hollywood dark continent. i know perfectly well that all americans, regardless of their 'color' are wazungu - foreign busy-bodies. so what?

i want a symbol of the south that encodes our history all the way back to mother africa. i don't *care* if modern brown skinned southerners know jack shit about africa - i know they don't, cause i do. i don't want the red/green/black flag because that came from Negritude, which is revisionist nonsense anti-history, and beyond that represents only part of southern culture. we need all of it, a unifier.

.

But isn't a flag which emphasizes the black roots of part of the culture kind of as divisive and segregationist as one which emphasizes the white parts of the culture?

Why does the South need its own symbol anyways? Is being an American not enough?

 

[Keith&Co.]

African-American/one drop pollutes - okay, my DNA is 2% sub-saharan african, ergo, i'm black, piss off. i'm not a racist, i don't use those terms because they are *evil*, but if don't you don't know what i'm talking about. from here on out, 'southerners with medium brown skin'.

Wow.
What a way to completely miss the point.
I wasn't calling you a racist, so piss up a rope. I was thinking you were being rather generous with any sort of 'the South doesn't do this anymore' claim with regard to racism.

I was pointing out that the law of the state we were in directed anyone with any black heritage to be listed as a black for whatever purpose of census, for school balance/programs/desegregation, etc.
But they don't treat the slightest bit of white heritage as qualifying one for white-ness on the same lists. I believe this holds true for most of the former slave states as well.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Yes, it's fair to say their flag was a lot more successful than the movement it represents, for whatever that's worth. On the other hand, the tendency to replace the London/New York based colors is largely a reaction to Pan-Africanists' prevailing belief that westerners have way too much influence in a political movement in which they have no stake, no investment, and no meaningful commitment. That's why Ethiopia and other more stable African nations are increasingly pushing themselves into leadership positions in the African Union, which in turn comes with the subtle (and sometimes unsubtle) replacement of symbols and imagery.



It could be, but I don't think that's true anymore, assuming that it ever was.

Put mildly, African unity movements have been heading in a different direction for quite a while. They're aiming more for formalized political agreements backed by the U.N. and depending less and less on the fickle support of the U.S. government alone. This doesn't always work, and they don't always get anything done this way, but what's happening more and more is that the AU is trying to assert its own position as the broker of progress for African nations rather than just a vessel for the collective good will of black activists around the world.

Their various attempts to change their colors is pretty much a metaphor for that: they don't want to be seen as a solidarity movement, they want to be seen as an international unity movement on par with the E.U. or NATO.

So the flag is more popular than the movement, but it only represents the movement. Uh hunh.

The flag is more popular than the Americentric branch of the movement it represents. Which, as I've started, is one of the reasons the Afro-centric branch of the movement has sought to replace it in recent years.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

African-American/one drop pollutes - okay, my DNA is 2% sub-saharan african, ergo, i'm black, piss off. i'm not a racist, i don't use those terms because they are *evil*, but if don't you don't know what i'm talking about. from here on out, 'southerners with medium brown skin'.

Wow.
What a way to completely miss the point.
I wasn't calling you a racist, so piss up a rope. I was thinking you were being rather generous with any sort of 'the South doesn't do this anymore' claim with regard to racism.

I was pointing out that the law of the state we were in directed anyone with any black heritage to be listed as a black for whatever purpose of census, for school balance/programs/desegregation, etc.
But they don't treat the slightest bit of white heritage as qualifying one for white-ness on the same lists. I believe this holds true for most of the former slave states as well.

It's not just the Southern states either. It's actually kind of interesting that according to both the State of Illinois and the Federal Government

ALL of the people in this picture are "black." Despite the fact that 3 of them one white parent, 2 have latino parents and one has two white grandparents. The "blackest" person in this picture is, in fact, Puerto-Rican.

 

[fromderinside]

....

I was pointing out that the law of the state we were in directed anyone with any black heritage to be listed as a black for whatever purpose of census, for school balance/programs/desegregation, etc.
But they don't treat the slightest bit of white heritage as qualifying one for white-ness on the same lists. I believe this holds true for most of the former slave states as well.

I wonder if such is done the great slave state of Michigan? Oh, its a lake. Sorry. Maybe not.

 

[tantric]

African-American/one drop pollutes - okay, my DNA is 2% sub-saharan african, ergo, i'm black, piss off. i'm not a racist, i don't use those terms because they are *evil*, but if don't you don't know what i'm talking about. from here on out, 'southerners with medium brown skin'.

Wow.
What a way to completely miss the point.
I wasn't calling you a racist, so piss up a rope. I was thinking you were being rather generous with any sort of 'the South doesn't do this anymore' claim with regard to racism.

I was pointing out that the law of the state we were in directed anyone with any black heritage to be listed as a black for whatever purpose of census, for school balance/programs/desegregation, etc.
But they don't treat the slightest bit of white heritage as qualifying one for white-ness on the same lists. I believe this holds true for most of the former slave states as well.

my bad, i was having a pissy morning. i meant by that "by the one drop rule, i'm black, therefore i can describe my group as anything i want, including 'funkasaurus people back from sector 6 to reclaim the pyramids' and the rest of america has to just stand there and look supportive" it was meant to be doubly ironic, i'm not sure it works at all.

however, i'd really like a map of racial incidents in the USA today. when i moved to LA in 1990, i was appalled. in the south, when we have a 'racial incident' everyone stops talking, looks embarrassed and then we just pretend it didn't happen. in LA they pull out guns and start shooting. i'm not going to look it up before hand, but i'd be willing to bet that the south is less racist than LA, NYC or Chicago today.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I'm sick of all flags -- too much potential for asshats to get preachy and try to shame their 'opposition.' Why can't we phase out all flags? Celebrate human achievement on your money, postage, airport names, etc. Fuck flags. Let them go the way of diadems, scepters, and fasces.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I'm sick of all flags -- too much potential for asshats to get preachy and try to shame their 'opposition.' Why can't we phase out all flags? Celebrate human achievement on your money, postage, airport names, etc. Fuck flags. Let them go the way of diadems, scepters, and fasces.

I agree and want to join this movement. The first thing we need to do is get ourselves a symbol for it - perhaps a rectangular, cloth one that we can put up on a pole so everyone else will know that we're part of this movement and therefore better them.

 

[Keith&Co.]

but i'd be willing to bet that the south is less racist than LA, NYC or Chicago today.

I think you need to define 'racist' before you make that bet.

Do you mean a willingness to become violent over racial comments? And is that racism or just a culture that promotes violence and self-absorption? Do the people in LA get as het up about class comments, or your mother, or sex and so on? Or just about race?

My experience was that our interracial marriage was an item of a lot of interest up North, but because it was rare when we first traveled through Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Vermont.
There wasn't as much staring in The South, because it's more common, but it also seemed to be very much more important to Southerners. No one up North stopped what they were doing to either warn me I was making a mistake or to congratulate me on being brave. Down South they did both.

 

[tantric]

but i'd be willing to bet that the south is less racist than LA, NYC or Chicago today.

I think you need to define 'racist' before you make that bet.

Do you mean a willingness to become violent over racial comments? And is that racism or just a culture that promotes violence and self-absorption? Do the people in LA get as het up about class comments, or your mother, or sex and so on? Or just about race?

My experience was that our interracial marriage was an item of a lot of interest up North, but because it was rare when we first traveled through Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Vermont.
There wasn't as much staring in The South, because it's more common, but it also seemed to be very much more important to Southerners. No one up North stopped what they were doing to either warn me I was making a mistake or to congratulate me on being brave. Down South they did both.

i've been looking for maps but everything i find just overlays population density. i will say that your experiences with being in an interracial marriage are probably less than relevant - i once went out with a jewish guy who refused to sleep with me when he found out i wasn't circumcised, but i didn't take that as bigotry. from what i've heard (and i haven't heard anything about it in a while) the opposition to interracial marriage was based on the idea that it was cruel to the children, as they 'wouldn't belong'. this came from black and white, pretty equally. look, my skin tone is beige, basically. i'm primarily attracted to south asian/middle eastern men, secondarily to mestizos and mediterranean-types, then in order of preferences, western and northern europeans, sub-saharan africans and east asians. does that make me racist? i know a tiawanese guy who's a leather master and only subjugates white guys - is that racist? Baha'i are supposed to marry outside their ethnic group - how about that?

i don't care about any of that - i'm looking for *hate*. i went on a date with an alcoholic SOB (who happened to be very attractive) and we went to see Iron Man II in a theatre in decatur (if you don't know ATL, well, it's the setting for a lot of OutKast songs) that serves beer. he was an iron man group, so he wanted to explain the movie to me - meaning he was drunk and wanted to talk. when a lady turned around and asked him to be quiet, he called her a 'nigger cunt'. THAT was hate. in my 43 years of living in GA, that was the first time i've heard that kind of language, just dripping with bile and vitriol. how do you measure that?

 

[Mumbles]

Vanglorious

This is protected...

Uh, sorry. Just a bit of a memory there.

Anyway, take it down. Call me black, African-American, black hispanic - I don't care. Take it down.

 

[tantric]

i LOVE that song - thanks, cool..... but still....