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Now is the time I would pray to a god if I believed in one.

FievelJ

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2022
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Basic Beliefs
Fievel is my god, whatever that all means. LOL.
Too much death happening around me and I am pretty sure I am losing my life partner.
My one friend who use to take me for beer and get me pot, I believe he is dying.
Might be losing my brother and law.

A certain person's boyfriend, no loss I don't care much for him.
 
Too much death happening around me and I am pretty sure I am losing my life partner.
My one friend who use to take me for beer and get me pot, I believe he is dying.
Might be losing my brother and law.

A certain person's boyfriend, no loss I don't care much for him.
Well, us folks are here and if you ever need someone to talk to, you can ping me.

If you want, I could even have a discussion with you about the real power of prayer from the perspective of a pure materialist.

Don't be afraid to pray. Just understand when you are doing it, you are talking to yourself and trying to work out new ways to feel about the situation.

Don't cut yourself off from a useful, normal, ancient mechanism by which humans cope with their feelings just because you aren't going to get God himself on the horn, owing to their likely non-existence.
 
Too much death happening around me and I am pretty sure I am losing my life partner.
My one friend who use to take me for beer and get me pot, I believe he is dying.
Might be losing my brother and law.

A certain person's boyfriend, no loss I don't care much for him.
Well, us folks are here and if you ever need someone to talk to, you can ping me.

If you want, I could even have a discussion with you about the real power of prayer from the perspective of a pure materialist.

Don't be afraid to pray. Just understand when you are doing it, you are talking to yourself and trying to work out new ways to feel about the situation.

Don't cut yourself off from a useful, normal, ancient mechanism by which humans cope with their feelings just because you aren't going to get God himself on the horn, owing to their likely non-existence.
I will cope without a god to pray to as I doubt any god exists.
Besides never in my life God of Christianity has never answered my prayers. Not one time.

So I doubt any god of any kind.
 
Too much death happening around me and I am pretty sure I am losing my life partner.
My one friend who use to take me for beer and get me pot, I believe he is dying.
Might be losing my brother and law.

A certain person's boyfriend, no loss I don't care much for him.
Well, us folks are here and if you ever need someone to talk to, you can ping me.

If you want, I could even have a discussion with you about the real power of prayer from the perspective of a pure materialist.

Don't be afraid to pray. Just understand when you are doing it, you are talking to yourself and trying to work out new ways to feel about the situation.

Don't cut yourself off from a useful, normal, ancient mechanism by which humans cope with their feelings just because you aren't going to get God himself on the horn, owing to their likely non-existence.
I will cope without a god to pray to as I doubt any god exists.
Besides never in my life God of Christianity has never answered my prayers. Not one time.

So I doubt any god of any kind.
So you know what exists? You exist. And a lot of parts of you exist that aren't directly the one talking to me.

Invasive thoughts come from somewhere and no, they aren't  exactly the one I'm talking to now.

It's kind of like when you smoke DMT and get transported past the Marigold Gate to meet and select a Machine Elf.

You have a lot of weird shit kicking around in there, and that experience, for example, is having a chemical that warps your neural function in a way that allows you to see all of it strewn about in a fairly disorganized way and pick one of them to directly experience.

Theres just so much more
even just to the landscape of you than your conscious self.

There are things in the individual human mind that are documented as angels.

There are parts that are documented as demons.

There are parts that are documented as "gods".

Sometimes it helps to talk out into the void of your own mind, not at god, but to all that of yourself unseen and not directly experienced, and talk about things with it.

This is what prayer does in grief.

Most people aren't privileged enough to see it this way, and form unhealthy expectations of it, and of themselves, and of "god".
 
If religion can help you go ahead. There is nothing fundamentally wrong about it.

Someone in my building does not rely believe, but oes to a Russian Orthodox church he grew up in because the rituals give him comfort. He has cancer.
 
FievelJ said:
Now is the time I would pray to a god if I believed in one.
Why?

Did you used to pray and get comfort from it?

Jarhyn's not wrong about subpersonalities, or "parts", but it's not clear how that is useful for grief. He's just rationalizing the idea of praying but skips the main point - grief. (And anyway, no "parts" need to be referenced as angels or demons or gods; not if you want some bit of clarity. See Internal Family Systems if there's anything about the talk of "parts" that is interesting.)

So, I wonder, why do you think of praying when confronted with death? If it was comforting, then how so?
 
If religion can help you go ahead. There is nothing fundamentally wrong about it.

Someone in my building does not rely believe, but oes to a Russian Orthodox church he grew up in because the rituals give him comfort. He has cancer.
So sorry to hear that.

Well to me I believe what Morgan Freeman seems to believe, you're here for awhile, then you are just not here anymore. That's not what he said, but I could post it I believe YouTube links are okay.



I tend to agree with him as I never found comfort praying to the Christian god as his answer seemed to always be no. I realized at one point around 47 years old. There was that and there was google searches to strengthen my faith and it crashed into atheism.

If I were to believe in a god it sure wouldn't be Christianity but I also opened my eyes and mind to the facts, as 6.5 billion other people either have a different god, split into 10,000 religions. I more or less think of Christianity as a book in a large library of books as just another religion.

Do I believe there's an afterlife? No.

Does this scare me? Yes. And no.
It would be nice to last a few hundred years, then die. But that's not how it works and I have used up half my life already as I turn 52 in June.

Between here and there I am enjoying the experience of just being here at this moment.

Life is 100% worth living even if there is no afterlife, which so far as I can tell there isn't one.
Besides... the number one question I like to ask is, "What the hell are you doing for an eternity?"

Life is long enough without having to figure out what to do in-between now and forever.
I can not imagine a worse hell than not being able to die.

End of story Amen. LOL.
 
FieveLJ, you might want to post a thread in the Support Fireside forum (https://iidb.org/forums/support-fireside.11/), which is specially set up to help give support to members undergoing difficult life experiences. Wishing you well.
Thanks much, I didn't know any better I thought it was the most relevant.
And yes it sucks as I watch his mind dying more and more every day.
 
it's not clear how that is useful for grief. He's just rationalizing the idea of praying but skips the main point - grief.
Have you ever not felt better I a moment of grief by being able to talk out how you are feeling to someone who actually cares?

The audience most likely to care and understand how you are feeling is yourself.

And more importantly, there are parts out there in the mind that listen, and most importantly having it talked through with yourself can help lead better to acceptance.

There are fundamentally reasons why these ancient exercises have been engaged in for eons as a part of the grieving process. I expect this lives at the core of it.
 
FieveLJ, you might want to post a thread in the Support Fireside forum (https://iidb.org/forums/support-fireside.11/), which is specially set up to help give support to members undergoing difficult life experiences. Wishing you well.
Thanks much, I didn't know any better I thought it was the most relevant.
And yes it sucks as I watch his mind dying more and more every day.
Have you said goodbye to him? Does he know you are saying goodbye to him more and more every day? And what are their thoughts, as they still have them, about what this is doing to your life?

Has he ever discussed with you what to do AT the end, and what their wishes are?

This is part of acceptance, too.
 
it's not clear how that is useful for grief. He's just rationalizing the idea of praying but skips the main point - grief.
Have you ever not felt better I a moment of grief by being able to talk out how you are feeling to someone who actually cares?

The audience most likely to care and understand how you are feeling is yourself.

And more importantly, there are parts out there in the mind that listen, and most importantly having it talked through with yourself can help lead better to acceptance.

There are fundamentally reasons why these ancient exercises have been engaged in for eons as a part of the grieving process. I expect this lives at the core of it.
Yeah, the catharsis of talking with friends. And the several ways to achieve self-compassion.

But you weren't talking about talking about it; you were rationalizing prayer. I'm a deeply introspective person and dialogue with my parts and have acquaintance with (and ultimately I am) the "wise self". Praying makes exactly as little sense in this, as praying to your friends.
 
it's not clear how that is useful for grief. He's just rationalizing the idea of praying but skips the main point - grief.
Have you ever not felt better I a moment of grief by being able to talk out how you are feeling to someone who actually cares?

The audience most likely to care and understand how you are feeling is yourself.

And more importantly, there are parts out there in the mind that listen, and most importantly having it talked through with yourself can help lead better to acceptance.

There are fundamentally reasons why these ancient exercises have been engaged in for eons as a part of the grieving process. I expect this lives at the core of it.
Yeah, the catharsis of talking with friends. And the several ways to achieve self-compassion.

But you weren't talking about talking about it; you were rationalizing prayer. I'm a deeply introspective person and dialogue with my parts and have acquaintance with (and ultimately I am) the "wise self". Praying makes exactly as little sense in this, as praying to your friends.
Prayer is, fundamentally, talking seriously to yourself about things, usually "on the inside".

Prayer is the catharsis of talking about it with a friend, who happens to be you. You can tell yourself what you wish were true for them, reflect on your memories, and your relationship with the version of them you built inside you with your empathy, their ghost.

The religions have always just thought more of that pantheon of the mind than was really warranted.

What I know is that talking out into that part of us that rarely calls back in any sensible or obvious way is part of the catharsis.

My point is that that's still there as a thing that helps in these situations, and it's not unhealthy or ineffective in the grieving process.

Really, the unhealthy part is to not release the tension, to keep it all unsaid and even unacknowledged to your own self.

You get to tell yourself how much you don't want to lose them and that part of you that you use to comfort others can come around to take the advice it gives, and hurt less, at the "low" price of accepting now, that it hurts a whole lot.
 
One of the benefits of religion is that it is a coping mechanism for most people. Life throws a lot of pain and suffering our way during our brief time, so I personally don't want to challenge, judge, or disrupt whatever helps people to survive the difficult times. I'll engage in debate with those who feel inclined to discuss their religious beliefs, but it doesn't really matter to me that people believe things I do not. I am a strong atheist in that I think there is positive evidence against belief in gods, but I am not an evangelical atheist. People need to be allowed the space to take comfort in whatever works to give them comfort when it doesn't interfere with my own journey through life.
 
One of the benefits of religion is that it is a coping mechanism for most people. Life throws a lot of pain and suffering our way during our brief time, so I personally don't want to challenge, judge, or disrupt whatever helps people to survive the difficult times. I'll engage in debate with those who feel inclined to discuss their religious beliefs, but it doesn't really matter to me that people believe things I do not. I am a strong atheist in that I think there is positive evidence against belief in gods, but I am not an evangelical atheist. People need to be allowed the space to take comfort in whatever works to give them comfort when it doesn't interfere with my own journey through life.
I ah. I accept that there's probably no afterlife and probably a good thing too. Was reaching out cause this all is happening in my life.
I would say my life partner has around a year. But when you're gone you are gone, there's no coming back in some other form.

Like Morgan Freeman says you're here, you're not here period.
 
One of the benefits of religion is that it is a coping mechanism for most people. Life throws a lot of pain and suffering our way during our brief time, so I personally don't want to challenge, judge, or disrupt whatever helps people to survive the difficult times. I'll engage in debate with those who feel inclined to discuss their religious beliefs, but it doesn't really matter to me that people believe things I do not. I am a strong atheist in that I think there is positive evidence against belief in gods, but I am not an evangelical atheist. People need to be allowed the space to take comfort in whatever works to give them comfort when it doesn't interfere with my own journey through life.
I ah. I accept that there's probably no afterlife and probably a good thing too. Was reaching out cause this all is happening in my life.
I would say my life partner has around a year. But when you're gone you are gone, there's no coming back in some other form.

Like Morgan Freeman says you're here, you're not here period.
Even THAT is a little fuzzy. In some ways people survive in the empathetic reflections others develop to understand and relate with those folks.

I've mentioned a few times how parents can end up trying to dominate their children and shut out other sources of personal enrichment and development.

This is because these reflections become a part of us and our own personalities.

This is, to me, roughly the reality behind the claims of heaven, not in the eternity of a whole real life but as a partial imperfect copy living in someone else's memories.

It is the "them" we interact with when we know already that they will be happy with us, or perhaps disappointed. Of course it's us, but it's a part of us we wholely gave for their happiness and for the sake of understanding them.

It doesn't go away when they die, because it's not a part of them it's a part of you, and it always will be and always was. Depending on how much you invested into the relationship, it can be more or less complete, and yes, these things are capable of haunting you.

Once you think of it that way, it makes a lot more sense why people try to leave behind a book or a story embedded with some part of them that will get re-absorbed and live empathetically again in the heads of others.

Roughly speaking of you want to research more, see "Lamarckism" or "Neo-Lamarckism" or "Lamarkian evolution".

The general idea is that social and communicative entities (of which we are a subclass) have evolutionary strategies that involve passing "self" out to other compatible platforms laterally, rather than vertically as in darwinian evolution.

It may not be exactly what is meant with the overflowing promises of eternal heavens, but it is also a material reality, unlike the promises made by the religious.

Perhaps it might help both of you to tell their story somewhere.
 
Lamarkiism? Religion is part of culture and culture is passed down generation to generation evolving over time. There is nothing mysterious about that.

In an case as we now know we are a simulation, right?
 
Lamarkiism? Religion is part of culture and culture is passed down generation to generation evolving over time. There is nothing mysterious about that.

In an case as we now know we are a simulation, right?
Steve, your lack of empathy and understanding among these words is enough to rattle the faith in humanity of any man.

I don't believe we are in a simulation. In fact I expect we are probably NOT.

But the fact is, yes, we teach each other who we are and we all do learn better to coexist through empathy, for the sake of living better with each other and for the sake of taking a lateral transfer of ideas and making those ideas their own.

It's an observable reality of our existence.
 
I have empathy with people who are lost in odd beliefs. I disagree but I empathize with the feelings of the anti abortionists. I undersdtand why they feel like they do.

There are chimps who make tools to crack hard nuts. They have a quarry area where they select sopecific rocks which they carry to a work area and chip it into a tool. Lacking speech and writing young chimps learn by observation, mimic, and trail and error. It takes a chimp a long time to learn the skill.

Nothing mysterious, in the end a function of the chimp brain. The question is always how much is nature, genetic inheritance, and nurture. Nurture being culture and soft skills.

I am not much for elaborate discussion over what amounts to simple observation and conclusion.

The persistence of religion IMO may be part gEnetic, A genetic predisposition to hiearchy, Horses are a good eample. Chimps are hierarchcal with birth mother a factor in social status.

I expect relgion is part genetics and part soft culture,.


And this is a derail to social science.
 
I have empathy with people who are lost in odd beliefs. I disagree but I empathize with the feelings of the anti abortionists. I undersdtand why they feel like they do.

There are chimps who make tools to crack hard nuts. They have a quarry area where they select sopecific rocks which they carry to a work area and chip it into a tool. Lacking speech and writing young chimps learn by observation, mimic, and trail and error. It takes a chimp a long time to learn the skill.

Nothing mysterious, in the end a function of the chimp brain. The question is always how much is nature, genetic inheritance, and nurture. Nurture being culture and soft skills.

I am not much for elaborate discussion over what amounts to simple observation and conclusion.

The persistence of religion IMO may be part gEnetic, A genetic predisposition to hiearchy, Horses are a good eample. Chimps are hierarchcal with birth mother a factor in social status.

I expect relgion is part genetics and part soft culture,.


And this is a derail to social science.
Religion isn't something I believe in. I would have to close my mind to facts, and I can not do that.

Thanks for the reply.
 
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