Priest–penitent privilege

[NobleSavage]

Should one be able to tell his priest the he is a child molester and have this kept in confidence?

I was curious about the law on this so I looked it up:

Known as the clergy–penitent privilege, clergy privilege, confessional privilege, priest–penitent privilege, clergyman-communicant privilege, and ecclesiastical privilege; it is an application of the principle of privileged communication that protects the contents of communications between a member of the clergy of any religious faith (a “clergy” is a minister, priest, rabbi, or other similar functionary of a religious organization, or an individual reasonably believed to be so by the person consulting him) and a penitent, who shares information in confidence. It stems from the principle of confessional privilege. It is a distinct concept from that of confidentiality (see non-disclosure agreement).

The protection of the clergy-penitent privilege relationships rests on one of the more basic privileges as strong or stronger than the similar clauses to confidentiality between lawyer and client.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest–penitent_privilege#United_States_of_America

I was kind of surprised to learn this.

For the Catholics

According to Roman Catholic canon law, "The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason." (983 §1) The confessor is always an ordained priest, because in the Catholic Church only ordained priests can absolve sins; lay confession is not recognized.

Priests may not reveal what they have learned during confession to anyone, even under the threat of their own death or that of others. For a priest to break confidentiality would lead to a latae sententiae (automatic) excommunication, the lifting of which is reserved to the Holy See—in fact, to the Pope himself (Code of Canon Law, 1388 §1)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_the_Confessional_and_the_Catholic_Church

I guess we won't have Priest Confessions as a reality show anytime soon. On a more serious note I can see a lot of people against this because of the entire Catholic Church child abuse scandal. Is it possible to maintain this confidentiality and at the same time move a confessing priest to a job that doesn't involve children? I'm not sure how to articulate it yet, but I can see some value in 100% confidentiality. Let me think about that and get some responses before I come to a decision.

 

[bigfield]

Should one be able to tell his priest the he is a child molester and have this kept in confidence?

No.

It serves no useful function outside of religious superstitions.

 

[NobleSavage]

Should one be able to tell his priest the he is a child molester and have this kept in confidence?

No.

It serves no useful function outside of religious superstitions.

Picking child molester as an example was an extreme. I kind of like the idea of a power that the all encompassing police state can't touch.

Not saying you are wrong, but in the case of child molesters the criminal justices system isn't a sparkling success. From what I understand most child molesters were themselves molested as a children. Maybe, (there are no statistics to prove this) a priest can ease their pain and get them started on a better life more successfully than the criminal justice system?

 

[bigfield]

No.

It serves no useful function outside of religious superstitions.

Picking child molester as an example was an extreme. I kind of like the idea of a power that the all encompassing police state can't touch.

Not saying you are wrong, but in the case of child molesters the criminal justices system isn't a sparkling success. From what I understand most child molesters were themselves molested as a children. Maybe, (there are no statistics to prove this) a priest can ease their pain and get them started on a better life more successfully than the criminal justice system?

You are right about the justice system in that it does not do a good enough job of rehabilitating those whose crimes are due to mental illness. However the same can be said of priests. At least the justice system has the future potential to set up a system where they get offenders into science-based rehabilitation programs and turn them into people fit to live in society.

 

[NobleSavage]

Picking child molester as an example was an extreme. I kind of like the idea of a power that the all encompassing police state can't touch.

Not saying you are wrong, but in the case of child molesters the criminal justices system isn't a sparkling success. From what I understand most child molesters were themselves molested as a children. Maybe, (there are no statistics to prove this) a priest can ease their pain and get them started on a better life more successfully than the criminal justice system?

You are right about the justice system in that it does not do a good enough job of rehabilitating those whose crimes are due to mental illness. However the same can be said of priests. At least the justice system has the future potential to set up a system where they get offenders into science-based rehabilitation programs and turn them into people fit to live in society.

I know this is dreaming, but maybe churches (I'm thinking the RCC as they slowly tend to come around to science ) could have science-based rehabilitation programs. There should be an organization for pedophiles who don't break the law and who need help. And it should be 100% private. If the RCC would set up something like this it would be impressive. (Not holding my breath).

 

[bigfield]

You are right about the justice system in that it does not do a good enough job of rehabilitating those whose crimes are due to mental illness. However the same can be said of priests. At least the justice system has the future potential to set up a system where they get offenders into science-based rehabilitation programs and turn them into people fit to live in society.

I know this is dreaming, but maybe churches (I'm thinking the RCC as they slowly tend to come around to science ) could have science-based rehabilitation programs. There should be an organization for pedophiles who don't break the law and who need help. And it should be 100% private. If the RCC would set up something like this it would be impressive. (Not holding my breath).

Despite their past patronage of the sciences, the RCC just isn't capable of that.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I guess we won't have Priest Confessions as a reality show anytime soon.

Well, we'd have to have penitents sign a release before-hand. Like all the TV court shows, where they acknowledge that it's not a real civil court, they just sign a contract to abide by the ruling.

But we could have a mystery guest get into the box, deliver their confession, then a panel of experts in law, theology, mental health, disect the confession. They offer up advice on how to deal with the problems addressed, the ramifications, the possible explanation (with technical terms like 'You is whacked, dude.').
Dear Abby meets Dr. Phil and Judge Judy.

Then at the end of the show a mystery guest confess something and a panel of celebrity guests tries to figure out what the sin was.
"I done a bad thing."
"Was it a mortal sin?"
"No."
"Did it involve Pudding?"
"Um..."
"Jello?"
"Yes!"

 

[Togo]

The Goon Show did a spoof version of 'what's my line' called 'what's my crime' where the panellists tried to guess exactly what the mystery guest had been arrested for.

 

[NobleSavage]

I know this is dreaming, but maybe churches (I'm thinking the RCC as they slowly tend to come around to science ) could have science-based rehabilitation programs. There should be an organization for pedophiles who don't break the law and who need help. And it should be 100% private. If the RCC would set up something like this it would be impressive. (Not holding my breath).

Despite their past patronage of the sciences, the RCC just isn't capable of that.

I'm thinking abut the future i.e. when the Millennials run the show.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

If a priest has more rights than a lawyer or a doctor, in terms of confidentiality not applying when they have knowledge of a crime about to be committed or abuse taking place etc, then that's a problem. It's fine for them to act as counsellors and the like but they should be subject to the same restrictions and limitation as other counsellors.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If a priest has more rights than a lawyer or a doctor, in terms of confidentiality not applying when they have knowledge of a crime about to be committed or abuse taking place etc, then that's a problem. It's fine for them to act as counsellors and the like but they should be subject to the same restrictions and limitation as other counsellors.

You beat me to it.

I have no problem with them having the same protections conversations with psychiatrists have but no more than that.