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So who has been in the miitary? I've got a question.

NobleSavage

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What's it like in peace time? If you are young and full of testosterone is there an itch to go to war? I can imagine wanting to do the real thing instead of drills, practice, preparation. If you are in the US military you have to know that our kill ratio is very favorable. Getting to see extremely expensive equipment would add to this, no? If I had a Porsche 911 Turbo at some point I'd want to see what that baby could really do.

I'm asking in general as I realize there are different types of people in the military and a huge array of jobs. I am not interested in conscripted troops of times past. If you want to break it down start with seasoned soldiers (and officers) with combat experience vs those without.
 
I'm asking in general as I realize there are different types of people in the military and a huge array of jobs.

"There are four types of people who join the military. For some, it's family trade. Others are patriots, eager to serve. Next you have those who just need a job. Then there's the kind who want the legal means of killing other people." - Jack Reacher
 
As an officer, it's very hard to get promoted in peacetime. Your career can, in effect, stall. If there is a war, and you don't get to participate, that's even worse, since people with actual combat experience get promoted over you. So you grab it when it comes around.

Three friends of mine went different routes. One fell into the family trade angle, and trained heavily for jungle warfare, in the expectation that that is where the action would be. Unfortunately, the second Iraq war sucked up almost all the deployment time, and he and his jungle trained unit ended up as support. He managed to wangle a deployment, but not in the area he wanted, very much rear echelon, and he had to leave his tank behind.

The second was very much the patriot type. He went into diplomatic protection, which has the advantage of being one of the few forms of active deployment available in peacetime. He did very well, and got promoted, but it will be harder for him to command a full combat unit.

The third was... category four. He went the special forces route, and ended up with lots of active duty. He mostly operates in friendly countries. It doesn't seem to make much difference to him whether there is a war on or not, he's busy either way.

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As an officer, it's very hard to get promoted in peacetime. Your career can, in effect, stall. If there is a war, and you don't get to participate, that's even worse, since people with actual combat experience get promoted over you. So you grab it when it comes around.

Three friends of mine went different routes. One fell into the family trade angle, and trained heavily for jungle warfare, in the expectation that that is where the action would be. Unfortunately, the second Iraq war sucked up almost all the deployment time, and he and his jungle trained unit ended up as support. He managed to wangle a deployment, but not in the area he wanted, very much rear echelon, and he had to leave his tank behind.

The second was very much the patriot type. He went into diplomatic protection, which has the advantage of being one of the few forms of active deployment available in peacetime. He did very well, and got promoted, but it will be harder for him to command a full combat unit.

The third was... category four. He went the special forces route, and ended up with lots of active duty. He mostly operates in friendly countries. It doesn't seem to make much difference to him whether there is a war on or not, he's busy either way.
 
I was a scout stationed in west germany during the height of the cold war. I am glad the shooting never started and I think the rest of my platoon was just happy playing wargames while living in Europe than actually having to go out and get shot at.
 
What's it like in peace time? If you are young and full of testosterone is there an itch to go to war? I can imagine wanting to do the real thing instead of drills, practice, preparation. If you are in the US military you have to know that our kill ratio is very favorable. Getting to see extremely expensive equipment would add to this, no? If I had a Porsche 911 Turbo at some point I'd want to see what that baby could really do.

I'm asking in general as I realize there are different types of people in the military and a huge array of jobs. I am not interested in conscripted troops of times past. If you want to break it down start with seasoned soldiers (and officers) with combat experience vs those without.

I was in the U.S. Army from 1980 to 1989, a very peaceful period. I had absolutely no desire whatsoever to see any combat (and thankfully, I didn't). There may have been a few gung ho types, but it was a different time period. Because it was very peaceful period, most the non-lifers were there for educational benefits while most of the lifers were there for the retirement benefits.
 
What's it like in peace time? If you are young and full of testosterone is there an itch to go to war?
God, no! If I went to war, the world was over.
We DID sometimes hope for an anti-nuke demonstrator to come over the fence, just to relieve the boredom. But not actual war.
If you are in the US military you have to know that our kill ratio is very favorable.
Not in my area of training.

If you want to break it down start with seasoned soldiers (and officers) with combat experience vs those without.
You might read Bill Mauldin's Up Front. He maintains there are few pacifists like a soldier who's been in a foxhole.
 
What's it like in peace time? If you are young and full of testosterone is there an itch to go to war? I can imagine wanting to do the real thing instead of drills, practice, preparation. If you are in the US military you have to know that our kill ratio is very favorable. Getting to see extremely expensive equipment would add to this, no? If I had a Porsche 911 Turbo at some point I'd want to see what that baby could really do.

I'm asking in general as I realize there are different types of people in the military and a huge array of jobs. I am not interested in conscripted troops of times past. If you want to break it down start with seasoned soldiers (and officers) with combat experience vs those without.

I was in the Air Force during peace time (1985-89). There was no itch for me to go to war. Had there been a war in '85, I would never have enlisted. I wanted nothing to do with war, rather I was in Reacher's category 3. I didn't really think I needed a job, but my parents sure thought I did. I just wanted to get out from under their roof, and out of my crappy home town. I got to see expensive equipment every day, F-111s, F-16s, even an SR-71 once, and almost an F-117 before they officially existed (they shut down the flight line for all non-essential personnel when one came in for an emergency landing, and kept us out of our own squadron hangar for a couple days because it was next to the hanger where they parked the stealth fighter). Things would have barely been different had I been in during a war. I would have been loading real bombs and missiles instead of practice bombs and dummy missiles, but I still would not have seen any of them drop.

Of course, I don't think many people join the Air Force expecting to see action, except for the pilots, and maybe Search and Rescue.
 
I'm thinking you guys might be a little biased towards peace because you are rational people.
 
I'm thinking you guys might be a little biased towards peace because you are rational people.

I don't think so. Except for a few outliers most guys I knew, I was in a tank battalion with a couple of infantry battalions across the street, were prepared to fight but would rather not have to.
 
I'm thinking you guys might be a little biased towards peace because you are rational people.
You might be a little confused, too. Not wanting war is not the same as not wanting some sort of action to be involved in.

Some officers wanted combat to score points for advancement, but they would rather have had something like Grenada than a full-out, declared war. Check off 'combat engaged,' but still have the regular rotation opportunities.

And we could blow off some of the testosterone steam with activities OTHER than declared war. Shooting SEALs out of the torpedo tube for training, or exploring under the ice, or anchoring in foreign ports hoping for anti-American demonstrators (I had a shotgun on the forecastle, my buddies had a 5-inch fire hose. They let the demonstrators climb the anchor chain a bit, then flushed them off. No one made it to the deck and I never even pumped my shotgun. But I had a nice laugh watching the splashes....)
 
A good way to look at being in the military (navy) is you are not so much employed as you are maintained. This is the way I thought of it. Lots of school (18 months full time) then you go to the fleet, train, train, train. Maintain your equipment. Sit an wait. For 23 years.
I originally went in to the navy because I couldn't bear the thought of another failed job interview. It was really messing with me and sadly, making me aware of who I was and the discrimination I could expect going forward. Then my friend who joined a few months prior, and was home on leave after boot camp said, "Hey, I'm going to go say hello to my recruiter. Want to come along?"
"Okay."
That was a big okay.
I didn't plan on staying in. I went to TAP class (I'm getting out school) four times throughout my career. But, I had nice duty stations and it was such a learning experience to meet people from other countries. I just loved to try and converse with them. Sit with them and observe their interactions. Awesome. And I love eating with Filipinos. Such happy people.

The expensive weapon systems can be fun. For the most part I worked on Close In Weapon System. Another system I worked on later, Rolling Airframe Missile was fun too but we didn't get to shoot it nearly as much.
Peace time or war, didn't much matter with regards to the excitement level in that no one was shooting at us. We got paid more during war time and stood more watches in very cold rooms. The navy likes to keep their electronics at about 55 F. That feels very cold after sitting still for a few hours. Keeps you awake. I stood watch with the same person over and over in our little corner of Combat Information Center on the carrier. Conversations got weird after awhile. For example, she was into gymnastics in school and claimed to be very flexible to this day. I just nodded thoughtfully throughout. You couldn't read books, magazines, play with any gadgets, etc. You could study textbooks, get away with writing some, and read anything as long as you printed it out and stapled it together so it looked official.
I had a few females in my division. Three of our four work spaces were outboard of male berthing compartments and heads. The girls would have to call "female on deck" before passing through. Which in time of course ends up being a call out while they are passing through. Girls just don't care. Oddly a few of the guys in the berthing would complain about being in various stages of undress while the girls passed through. Male modesty. Who would have thought? It's cold in the berthing compartments too.

I enjoyed the ports most of all. We had Greenpeace come at us pulling into Sydney back in the late eighties when I was on an Adams Class Destroyer out of Hawaii. I was in deck department back then and at sea and anchor detail on the fo'c'sle. No one could throw a monkey fist like me. I was the best. Anyways, there were Greenpeace small boats coming at us. Guys manning the fire hoses. This one poor dude in the water was pinned up against the side of the ship. Couldn't swim away and they kept blasting him with the hose. I didn't like that. What was cool was there was a small schooner that tried to block our way. We didn't back down. We went ahead, probably 2/3rds or full on the engines. The schooner ended up running into us and loosing a chunk of his bow on our starboard screw guard. That I liked.
We picked up Vietnamese refugees twice. That was nice. Afterwards we got to blast the shit out of the boat they were on with the 50 cals. It's a navigation hazard, you know. That was nice too.
Guns are fun. I don't own a gun but I understand the attraction. Probably don't own one because they're all so tiny out here. I've shot so many different weapons and they are a blast. I can't deny it.

Oh, there's nothing like the sunsets and the night sky out at sea. That makes it all worth it. I don't know how many times I had CSN playing in my head while looking at the night sky. I want my daughter to see it. Not by joining the navy but, she has no idea what the night sky is suppose to look like. Some of my best memories are of standing lookout watch at night.

I'm not an aggressive person at all. I was glad that the weapon systems I maintained were programmed to be defensive. CIWS couldn't shoot unless something was very close to us and very likely to hit the ship. That's it's mission. I joined because I needed a paycheck. Things worked out for me. I got good duty stations. It's the luck of the draw. My friend who went in a few month before me, got stuck on a carrier out of Norfolk for his first duty station. He was an airman. Worked his ass off. Couldn't get out of the navy fast enough.

If I had a son that wanted to join the navy with the thought of staying in for awhile, I'd tell him to go for it. The travel. The experience. I have no regrets at all.
 
A good way to look at being in the military (navy) is you are not so much employed as you are maintained. This is the way I thought of it. Lots of school (18 months full time) then you go to the fleet, train, train, train. Maintain your equipment. Sit an wait. For 23 years.
I originally went in to the navy because I couldn't bear the thought of another failed job interview. It was really messing with me and sadly, making me aware of who I was and the discrimination I could expect going forward. Then my friend who joined a few months prior, and was home on leave after boot camp said, "Hey, I'm going to go say hello to my recruiter. Want to come along?"
"Okay."
That was a big okay.
I didn't plan on staying in. I went to TAP class (I'm getting out school) four times throughout my career. But, I had nice duty stations and it was such a learning experience to meet people from other countries. I just loved to try and converse with them. Sit with them and observe their interactions. Awesome. And I love eating with Filipinos. Such happy people.

The expensive weapon systems can be fun. For the most part I worked on Close In Weapon System. Another system I worked on later, Rolling Airframe Missile was fun too but we didn't get to shoot it nearly as much.
Peace time or war, didn't much matter with regards to the excitement level in that no one was shooting at us. We got paid more during war time and stood more watches in very cold rooms. The navy likes to keep their electronics at about 55 F. That feels very cold after sitting still for a few hours. Keeps you awake. I stood watch with the same person over and over in our little corner of Combat Information Center on the carrier. Conversations got weird after awhile. For example, she was into gymnastics in school and claimed to be very flexible to this day. I just nodded thoughtfully throughout. You couldn't read books, magazines, play with any gadgets, etc. You could study textbooks, get away with writing some, and read anything as long as you printed it out and stapled it together so it looked official.
I had a few females in my division. Three of our four work spaces were outboard of male berthing compartments and heads. The girls would have to call "female on deck" before passing through. Which in time of course ends up being a call out while they are passing through. Girls just don't care. Oddly a few of the guys in the berthing would complain about being in various stages of undress while the girls passed through. Male modesty. Who would have thought? It's cold in the berthing compartments too.

I enjoyed the ports most of all. We had Greenpeace come at us pulling into Sydney back in the late eighties when I was on an Adams Class Destroyer out of Hawaii. I was in deck department back then and at sea and anchor detail on the fo'c'sle. No one could throw a monkey fist like me. I was the best. Anyways, there were Greenpeace small boats coming at us. Guys manning the fire hoses. This one poor dude in the water was pinned up against the side of the ship. Couldn't swim away and they kept blasting him with the hose. I didn't like that. What was cool was there was a small schooner that tried to block our way. We didn't back down. We went ahead, probably 2/3rds or full on the engines. The schooner ended up running into us and loosing a chunk of his bow on our starboard screw guard. That I liked.
We picked up Vietnamese refugees twice. That was nice. Afterwards we got to blast the shit out of the boat they were on with the 50 cals. It's a navigation hazard, you know. That was nice too.
Guns are fun. I don't own a gun but I understand the attraction. Probably don't own one because they're all so tiny out here. I've shot so many different weapons and they are a blast. I can't deny it.

Oh, there's nothing like the sunsets and the night sky out at sea. That makes it all worth it. I don't know how many times I had CSN playing in my head while looking at the night sky. I want my daughter to see it. Not by joining the navy but, she has no idea what the night sky is suppose to look like. Some of my best memories are of standing lookout watch at night.

I'm not an aggressive person at all. I was glad that the weapon systems I maintained were programmed to be defensive. CIWS couldn't shoot unless something was very close to us and very likely to hit the ship. That's it's mission. I joined because I needed a paycheck. Things worked out for me. I got good duty stations. It's the luck of the draw. My friend who went in a few month before me, got stuck on a carrier out of Norfolk for his first duty station. He was an airman. Worked his ass off. Couldn't get out of the navy fast enough.

If I had a son that wanted to join the navy with the thought of staying in for awhile, I'd tell him to go for it. The travel. The experience. I have no regrets at all.

How about needing Dramamine every minute you're out to sea. Recommendation still the same?
 
Thanks everyone, I appreciate your perspective. If I sad the problem with a big standing army is that sooner or later someone is gonna want to use it the wrong way, would you agree or disagree?
 
Thanks everyone, I appreciate your perspective. If I sad the problem with a big standing army is that sooner or later someone is gonna want to use it the wrong way, would you agree or disagree?
Well, yes, when you have a 614 billion dollar hammer, all your problems begin to look like nails...

But I wouldn't say that's THE problem with a big standing army. _A_ problem, maybe.
 
Thanks everyone, I appreciate your perspective. If I sad the problem with a big standing army is that sooner or later someone is gonna want to use it the wrong way, would you agree or disagree?
Sure, but not because the soldiers are demanding it.
 
I was a cavalry officer and scout platoon leader from 1997-2002. I was never deployed to a major conflict and never wished for it. I enjoyed gunnery and maneuvers and both provided enough excitement and danger (live firing a tank isn't exactly "safe") without the added degree of difficulty of having people shoot back at me. Most of the veteran soldiers in my platoon had a firefighter's attitude - They didn't wish for a fire, but if there was a fire they wanted to be the ones to put it out. I would also say that they were veterans of Gulf War 1 which was the fastest most one-sided conflict that the US Military had ever been in. There was no weariness to their victory (In all honesty there was no action for most of them either, but it was more than I was ever going to see).

I believe - and have first hand anecdotal experience - that the veterans returning from these more recent conflicts are much less enthused about participating in existing 'nation building' exercises. PTSD is ruining our military. Even those not diagnosed with the disorder have low morale and low expectations. We've been asking them to do too much with too little for too long.

Thanks everyone, I appreciate your perspective. If I sad the problem with a big standing army is that sooner or later someone is gonna want to use it the wrong way, would you agree or disagree?

We've been using it the wrong way consecutively since 2001. Sooner rather than later, someone ought to stop.

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