Sweden vs Assange round 3

[DrZoidberg]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48249486

BTW, this is misleading. It says that one of the two women who originally accused Assange of raped wanted the case re-opened.

1) None of the women ever accused Assange of rape. That was what the prosecutor chose to label it as.
2) In Sweden as soon as a rape accusation has been made (not necessarily by the alleged victim) the state takes it over and the victim has zero control over the case. This means that this initiative has to have come from the prosecutor. Not the victim.
3) So this is 100% only an initiative by the Swedish government. So politically motivated.
4) Considering how damn dodgy the initial case was this is interesting. The prosecutor hardly has the cooperation of the two women. They were never happy about it.

So, what's the goal here? Super strange.

No, matter how I dislike Assange, it's increasingly starting to look like he was correct originally. That the goal was to get him extradited to USA

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

BTW, this is misleading. It says
No, matter how I dislike Assange, it's increasingly starting to look like he was correct originally. That the goal was to get him extradited to USA

Was there ever any doubt?

 

[DrZoidberg]

BTW, this is misleading. It says
No, matter how I dislike Assange, it's increasingly starting to look like he was correct originally. That the goal was to get him extradited to USA

Was there ever any doubt?

I initially thought it was just Swedish incompetence among prosecutors. They let him leave the country. So they certainly were incompetent to some degree. It took them a while to decide it was rape. I'm still not sure they've even decided on that. They need to interrogate Assange first. And they haven't done that. In Sweden, pretty much anything counts as rape, so it's no surprise they manage to reach that conclusion. But it's pretty fucking dodgy whether they can make it stick in court. All Assange needs to say is, "no I didn't", and he's good to go. If the prosecutor has the "victim" against her then it's an even weaker case. Perhaps the victim finally changed her mind and now feels raped? But even so it's still not much of a case. And it's documented that the victim didn't feel raped before, that'll need to be explained away somehow.

 

[Tammuz]

No, matter how I dislike Assange, it's increasingly starting to look like he was correct originally. That the goal was to get him extradited to USA

This sounds like a bad conspiracy theory. Your claims are not quite correct.

The legal system does not follow the bidding of the government, and it is not the Swedish government, but the prosecutor and the attorney of one of the victims who wants him extradited to Sweden. We are not China.

You are also incorrect about the women. In the news:

Swedish lawyer urges prosecutor to move quickly in Assange investigation

...

“She is going to be forced to take steps quickly to ensure that we have time to get a potential criminal charge in this case,” lawyer Elisabeth Massi Fritz told a news conference.

“My client feels great gratitude and she is very hopeful about getting restitution and we both hope that justice will win.”

The victims report to the police what happened. The prosecutor will then decide which criminal charges that are appropriate to label it as, and prosecute on.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

My understanding is that stealthing is considered rape by Swedish law. Doesn't matter if she didn't say rape.

 

[steve_bank]

From accounts over here he does not appear to have been on our govt radar specifically.

It sounds morelike the situation presented itself.

But of course in the eyes of Asaange Sweden and UK are vassals of the USA and will do our bidding on command. Forget the rule of law. From what has been reported over here it will actually be difficult for the USA to extradite from the Brits. It is difficult even with obvious criminal actions.

 

[DrZoidberg]

No, matter how I dislike Assange, it's increasingly starting to look like he was correct originally. That the goal was to get him extradited to USA

This sounds like a bad conspiracy theory. Your claims are not quite correct.

The legal system does not follow the bidding of the government, and it is not the Swedish government, but the prosecutor and the attorney of one of the victims who wants him extradited to Sweden. We are not China.

Hmm... nor are we USA. The judiciary in Sweden can be strong armed by the government. As has happened many times. That's why it was so remarkable with the "Swedish judiciary drug rebellion" when the judges lowered the punishment for drug offences. They refused to back down for once. But they usually do.

You are also incorrect about the women. In the news:

Swedish lawyer urges prosecutor to move quickly in Assange investigation

...

“She is going to be forced to take steps quickly to ensure that we have time to get a potential criminal charge in this case,” lawyer Elisabeth Massi Fritz told a news conference.

“My client feels great gratitude and she is very hopeful about getting restitution and we both hope that justice will win.”

The victims report to the police what happened. The prosecutor will then decide which criminal charges that are appropriate to label it as, and prosecute on.

You're confusing things. It's because in Sweden there's loads of things that fall under the rubric "rape" that no sensible person would label as rape. These women didn't accuse him of actual rape. They only went to the police initially because they were worried Assange had AIDS and was spreading it on purpose. Which is a NUTS accusation, of course. That was the original accusation. They both had sex willingly with Assange. That's beyond question. The prosecutors then took this to build a case which barely hangs together.

Just the fact that the victim represented by Elisabeth Massi Fritzl says a lot. She's a woman's rights advocate and takes any case she can spin to help her image. She's notorious for turning complete bullshit into stuff people talk about. Her reputation among other lawyers is not great.

 

[DrZoidberg]

My understanding is that stealthing is considered rape by Swedish law. Doesn't matter if she didn't say rape.

But good luck proving it in court. All he needs to say is that he didn't do it and this case is dead in the water. And we already know that he will deny it. Any prosecutor must realise that this case will go nowhere. So the whole thing is bullshit.

 

[DrZoidberg]

But of course in the eyes of Asaange Sweden and UK are vassals of the USA and will do our bidding on command. Forget the rule of law. From what has been reported over here it will actually be difficult for the USA to extradite from the Brits. It is difficult even with obvious criminal actions.

Sweden has extradited suspected criminals to USA, who turned out to not be terrorists. Since USA habitually tortures suspects, (but off US soil, which makes it ok somehow) this is troubling.

Sweden are vassals of USA. Not officially. But in practice. And have been for over a hundred years.

 

[Bomb#20]

Sweden has extradited suspected criminals to USA, who turned out to not be terrorists. Since USA habitually tortures suspects, (but off US soil, which makes it ok somehow) this is troubling.

Sweden are vassals of USA. Not officially. But in practice. And have been for over a hundred years.

Try seventy-four. Sweden was historically in Germany's sphere of influence. They broke up incrementally over the course of WWII. The USA didn't really have overseas vassals until WWII except for some islands.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Sweden has extradited suspected criminals to USA, who turned out to not be terrorists. Since USA habitually tortures suspects, (but off US soil, which makes it ok somehow) this is troubling.

Sweden are vassals of USA. Not officially. But in practice. And have been for over a hundred years.

Try seventy-four. Sweden was historically in Germany's sphere of influence. They broke up incrementally over the course of WWII. The USA didn't really have overseas vassals until WWII except for some islands.

If you read early 20'th century Swedish books it was clear that people in general deeply admired USA. Their image of USA was completely unrealistic. But it was the country we looked up to. Yes, it was in Germany's sphere of influence. But the reason Sweden ended up being such an obedient tool goes way back to the 19'th century. Before WW2 rich people admired Germany. While poor people admired USA. After WW1 Sweden became incredibly socialist and (from 1932 onward) rich people were effectively removed from all positions of power. This shifted Sweden from an allegiance to Germany to USA.

During WW2 Sweden was split between an allegiance to Germany, which was most of the Swedish people, and to USA (and to a lesser extent the other allies), which was the entire Swedish ruling elite. It was down to impressive political juggling by the Swedish prime minster, Per-Albin Hansson, to keep Sweden from joining Germany. Germany was seen as the obvious ally of Sweden. After Finland became allied to Germany, joining the war on the allied side was out of the question. Finland and Sweden are extremely close. For ethnic reasons.