The Chicken or the Egg, which came first?

[Finding Truth]

In finding the truth we have to go back to the beginning cut out all present and past thinking, and so called evidence as it may be based on an erroneous starting point or interpretation of the facts because of biased leanings or lack of understanding.

We need to be completely unbiased, not basing our ideas on other people’s opinions no matter how sincere, plausible, or how well educated, or anything else the person may be, without questioning the information given by them.
If we are truly truth seekers we will not be offended or upset at others questioning our thoughts and opinions, in fact it should be welcomed because truth can only help us to understand our universe more, the seen and unseen.

We are in an age where we are discovering great thing and as a result we find it is unbelievably more complicated than we thought and getting more complicated by the day and truth is only going to help us understand it more accurately.

To get to the more accurate truth we must become unbiased, neutral, not judgemental, we can form our own opinions or theory as long as they are provisional and always willing to listen and consider new ideas that may conflict with our ideas or theory, that is a true Freethinker and this will get us closer to the truth.

I am having difficulty with evolution for I have so many unanswered questions. I think the best way to deal with this is to go to people who know more about it, so let’s start talking. It would be best to start from the beginning. That is the beginning of when life was supposed to have begun.

I use the chicken and the egg title because most of my difficulty is, which came first scenario, this will become evident as we get deeper into the subject.
I will start the ball rolling with these two questions.

Where did life begin and how? And, how this could even be possible?

 

[Finding Truth]

The greatest killer to free thinkers is authority and pressure that that can exert on our thinking.
Let me give an example, when you find any item in the street we can determine whether a very skilled person or one with an educated mind produced it.
Say for example we found a computer. You would know that it was not the product of one person, but many minds. It is also a very complicated piece of equipment, and you know that intelligence had to be behind that design to produce the computer.

Also you would know that it is a sensitive piece of equipment and slight damage to different parts would make it useless.
And you also know if parts of computer were missing it would not work, all the essential parts had to be there at the same time or it could not function (this I do believe applies to all functional things) you would also acknowledge that it had a design and designers; you would think it unreasonable to think otherwise.
And yet we are asked to believe the opposite from the above and to accept it even without a shred of evidence. That is the power of authority.
We are asked to believe that life came by accident, slowly, bit by bit, and without a brain without reasoning capacity and this has brought about things so complex and intricate that science has very few answer and cannot in any shape or form duplicate it, and the more learn the more complicated it seems to get, this to me is indicative of a supreme intelligence not a mindless product.

And yet we accept it willingly and as reasonable because learned men say so, that is the power of authority.
Are we truly free thinkers when we accept something that is not logical and goes against reason and accept it, all because authority says so.
We must have the guts to ask questions and demand sensible logical and reasonable answers, and at least some plausible evidence and in line with truth. And truth is understood by most people, even uneducated ones.

When something is in line with truth it simplifies it.

When explanations are difficult, complex, tedious, very long, that person has not got to the full truth of the matter and or does not fully understand the subject himself, otherwise he would be able to put it into simple terms.

DO YOU THINK I AM WRONG IN WHAT I HAVE SAID SO FAR?

And is anyone willing to answer the other questions I posed at the beginning which is:

Where did life begin and how? And, explain simply how this could even be possible?

If evolution is a fact as many believe then there should be no difficulty in answering it.

And finally free thinkers. Think with a Free Mind and in this way we will make advancement in accurate knowledge and understanding of our existence in this universe of ours.

 

[Finding Truth]

The chicken or the egg! which came first? Who laid the egg, a fully grown complete chicken, or a partly formed one, or even a half evolved one, and when did it discover it needed to lay an egg and to choose that method of reproduction, and of course there is the cockerel when did he evolve because you cannot have one without the other, and how did they evolve together and be compatible.

Next question, how long did it take to evolve into a complete chicken? thousands of years, millions, that is the usual answer. Did it have millions of years, or thousands or five hundred years or even fifty.

Next question How long does a chicken live? Who was laying the eggs to hatch to preserve the chickens evolution how did it reproduce itself to keep itself in existence when it was only part complete, and how did it know it needed to reproduce itself to survive, and then to evolve the mechanism to do that and on top of that, it would have had to get everything absolutely right the first time even a man with a brain cannot do that.

Next question? How did it know what the next step was, and to produce something that never existed before, did it have reasoning capacity, did it think? Did it even have a brain and how did it do that without those abilities. Even man with all their brains put together in the world can not do what mindless evolution accomplished, what does this say about the intelligence of man.

These are just some of the questions I have. The above can also apply to all the other things that supposed to have evolved. If you have an answer to them let me know.

Let me quote Richard Dawking he says “Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence”
All I am asking is for some evidence to evaluate for us to think about, and none have ventured even to try.

Is it after what I have said and having considered the evidence of why you believe evolution and realised it is based on faith only.

Science has moved forward dramatically since the conception of evolution and I would imagine if they had this knowledge we have today and the unbelievable complexity of life, evolving of life would not have even been considered.

The Theory of Evolution has been around over a 100 years surly there must be at least a glimmer of evidence around.
Let me ask another question that might spark a response.

There are only two alternatives to how we got here. I do not know of a third.
(1) Blind chance
(2) Or By universal intelligence.
Also what I do not understand is why a supreme intelligence is so unacceptable, I am sure you will tell me. (I would go as far as saying it must be an eternal intelligence) I am basing this on logic and reason not on any human belief.

Human belief can be fickle,
Unless it is based on truth as a starting point.

As I see it everything should harmonise with truth, (up till then it is considered a theory) when things do not harmonise we try to find harmony, and when we do everything seems to work properly and we can duplicate the process again and again then it passes the theory stage, and improved on as understanding of it gets better.
LET US DO THE SAME.

Finally The truth sets you free, to think freely to explore present knowledge not to be held a slave of past thinking, tradition, rituals which men put into place because of limited knowledge which at that time appeared wise to people, just as wisdom of the 60s is not the wisdom of the 21st centaury.

Because they idolised the man not the idea, as a result cannot move on with forward moving knowledge and understanding, they are now stuck in the past with the man and built around him the traditions, rituals, teachings, based on the then advanced knowledge.

We must not glorify men, but have respect and appreciation of what has been achieved by them, and build on what they have had the privilege to give to us. Let us move those bounties forward to greater understanding; we all have that potential within us. MAKE USE OF IT!

Why not start me of with any Question you like, test me out. In fact I have never done this before. I am eager to see how I will stand up to scrutiny.
I am no professor or been to college or any other higher education. In fact I would be made mince meat in a debate.
But in print I can put my thoughts clearly for I have time to think about it. I will not be giving instant answers, I only type slowly, and need to put thought into it,
I am not here to score points and win, if I make you think I will have accomplished my goal and that is what will make me a winner.

I am a seeker of truth wherever it takes me.

WHO IS GOING TO START AND CHALLENGING ME

 

[Keith&Co.]

And you also know if parts of computer were missing it would not work, all the essential parts had to be there at the same time or it could not function (this I do believe applies to all functional things) you would also acknowledge that it had a design and designers; you would think it unreasonable to think otherwise.

This is just from finding a computer in the street?
I think your analogy is more than a little stretched.
My very first computer did not have a modem. Is that missing an essential part? If the first PC you found was my old Apple IIc, would you notice if a modem was missing?
I really don't think so.
I mean, sure, they're standard for computers sold NOW. For today's
market. but back in the 80's, they weren't essential. They were a luxury.
But to fully understand that, you have to know at least a little bit about how computers work today and how they used to work back in the dark ages. And that's just personal computers.
To really understand the computer you typed this blog entry on, you'd have to know the whole history of such machines, back to the drum memory and vacuum tubes and punched tape.

But by the time you understood all that, you might be less and less impressed
by the sole quality of 'complexity.' You might start to grasp that the whole
process of producing computers is complex, yes, but each individual change, each stage that advances, is produced by incremental changes. And that no one's saying that a
Superwhammodyne, state-of-the-art computer just popped into being on the street, without being an adaptation of something else that worked, for as far as it went, with some improvements.
A whole chain of incremental improvements moves us from a working device to another working device. Not ZAP! There you go, a iPad.

 

[Finding Truth]

The purpose of my illustration was to show to show it had intelligence to produce a computer in fact so does everything else.

Are you confirming that by what you said above?

 

[Keith&Co.]

No.
I do not see any reason to think that everything that exists requires an intelligence to make it exist.

 

[Finding Truth]

I was only using computer to Illustrate the complexity of of design and designers of computers.

It may have had improvements on the way but that still took intelligence to move it forward and no doubt many disappointments on the way, but it still was a computer.

From one idea will come other, but it needed intelligence, reasoning ability, and possibly input from other individuals to achieve anything.

I am sure you will not say that a computer came about by chance and without an intelligent designer or designers in the case of a computer, I an sure you would say it would be unthinkable to say that.

And yet this is what evolutionists are trying to convince us, it is against all logic an reason and something we will ever witness or reproduce, and so far nobody and I mean nobody produced that evidence or there would be singing and dancing in the street and saying we told you so.

It has now been over a hundred years surely that should be enough time to come up with somthing.

 

[ontological_realist]

What do you mean by "chance" ?