The High Price of the Politics of Petulance

[SLD]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-high-price-of-the-politics-of-petulance.html

Great article, IMHO. The Bernie or Bust crowd could give us Trump as a President. They say there's no difference between HRC and DT. Bullshit. As this guy points out, if Humphrey had been elected, there would have been no Cambodian invasion, and subsequently no Cambodian holocaust. If Nader had been willing to cede Florida to Gore in 2000 (or if the liberals in Florida had realized what they were doing), there would have been no iraq war, no ISIS, and Afghanistan would be a boring country once again.

If Trump is elected, the country will be vastly different than if Clinton wins. There's just no way to logically argue that there's no difference between them. Whatever similarities are dwarfed by their differences. But I fear that we are in for a repeat of 2000, and those on the left will just fail to show up for Clinton, despite Sanders' endorsement and support.

I say, beat Trump. Beat him at almost all costs.

SLD

 

[Valjean]

The pendulum seems to be swinging back to the left. The public is beginning to realize something is wrong. Unfortunately, most people have little historical perspective and don't understand the political/economic origins of their diminishing prosperity. I fear many will be voting for the same political philosophy that got us here in the first place.

 

[SLD]

The pendulum seems to be swinging back to the left. The public is beginning to realize something is wrong. Unfortunately, most people have little historical perspective and don't understand the political/economic origins of their diminishing prosperity. I fear many will be voting for the same political philosophy that got us here in the first place.

On the contrary, they are flocking to Trump! They view him as a savior. He is a savior. Hitler did wonders for Germany while the rest of the world suffered through the great depression. Fascism is great if you're a fascist and in Hitler's Germany, everyone basically became a fascist. Except of course those who were exterminated.

SLD

 

[repoman]

Gore is no Humphrey and Clinton is no Gore. Seems that people here were saying that the problem was Trump being too soft on Russia, not too warlike. Which is it?

 

[ksen]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-high-price-of-the-politics-of-petulance.html

Great article, IMHO. The Bernie or Bust crowd could give us Trump as a President. They say there's no difference between HRC and DT. Bullshit. As this guy points out, if Humphrey had been elected, there would have been no Cambodian invasion, and subsequently no Cambodian holocaust. If Nader had been willing to cede Florida to Gore in 2000 (or if the liberals in Florida had realized what they were doing), there would have been no iraq war, no ISIS, and Afghanistan would be a boring country once again.

If Trump is elected, the country will be vastly different than if Clinton wins. There's just no way to logically argue that there's no difference between them. Whatever similarities are dwarfed by their differences. But I fear that we are in for a repeat of 2000, and those on the left will just fail to show up for Clinton, despite Sanders' endorsement and support.

I say, beat Trump. Beat him at almost all costs.

SLD

I appreciate the sentiment you are trying to express but Hillary is the bigger warmonger among the two candidates. Donald Trump has a lot of negatives but warmongering hasn't been one of them.

 

[Sarpedon]

In america, in the thirties, the fascists were the isolationists. Isolationism in the USA is useful to tyrants abroad. If Trump gets elected, NATO is gone. The principle of the alliance is absolute trust. If there is no trust between allies, there is no alliance. If Trump is elected, Putin will take the Baltic States, and their 4 million people will suffer oppression. The Ukraine war will start again, and probably Moldova will flare up. I can say these things with a fair degree of certainty. This is the least case. If Putin is prudent, he will be content with that. If not, we might see another major European war, and who knows what will come of that?

If you care so much about your precious peace, you won't let Trump win. If you don't care about the lives of other people in other countries, but only about you and yours, then why not vote for Trump? You are no different from his America-firsters.

 

[Rhea]

I appreciate the sentiment you are trying to express but Hillary is the bigger warmonger among the two candidates. Donald Trump has a lot of negatives but warmongering hasn't been one of them.

I just don't understand this stance even a little bit. It's completely illogical based on what I see.

Re: Iraq - Clinton was crystal clear in all of her statements that her vote was to give weight to negotiations and _NOT_ a blank check for war. She was QUITE CLEAR on this to those of us listening at the time.

Meanwhile Trump is egging Putin on.

I just don't understand what evidence you are claiming for this statement at all.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-high-price-of-the-politics-of-petulance.html

Great article, IMHO. The Bernie or Bust crowd could give us Trump as a President.
SLD

Why?

Because they won't vote for HRC?

People who are voting for Trump also are not voting for HRC and are ACTUALLY VOTING FOR TRUMP.

Wouldn't a Trump preisidency be the fault of people who voted FOR Trump?

 

[Deepak]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-high-price-of-the-politics-of-petulance.html

Great article, IMHO. The Bernie or Bust crowd could give us Trump as a President.
SLD

Why?

Because they won't vote for HRC?

People who are voting for Trump also are not voting for HRC and are ACTUALLY VOTING FOR TRUMP.

Wouldn't a Trump preisidency be the fault of people who voted FOR Trump?

If the NaderHaters are to be believed then people who stayed home, or voted for the other party (200k registered Ds), or voted for Pat Buchanan, or served in government are blameless.

It's a two party system, and them's the breaks.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v7XXSt9XRM[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Harry Bosch]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-high-price-of-the-politics-of-petulance.html

Great article, IMHO. The Bernie or Bust crowd could give us Trump as a President.
SLD

Why?

Because they won't vote for HRC?

People who are voting for Trump also are not voting for HRC and are ACTUALLY VOTING FOR TRUMP.

Wouldn't a Trump preisidency be the fault of people who voted FOR Trump?

I don't think so. The people who vote for Trump are going to mostly get what they want. Going back to Bush v Gore: I know many people who voted green or didn't vote at all who regret their decision. I don't know any Bush supporters who regretted their vote. I know for damn sure that I will vote for HRC and will feel no guilt if Trump wins.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Why?

Because they won't vote for HRC?

People who are voting for Trump also are not voting for HRC and are ACTUALLY VOTING FOR TRUMP.

Wouldn't a Trump preisidency be the fault of people who voted FOR Trump?

Any vote or non vote not cast for Hillary is a vote for Trump.

Then the Trump supporters are the biggest group of offenders. Should not these attacks be directed at them?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Any vote or non vote not cast for Hillary is a vote for Trump.

Then the Trump supporters are the biggest group of offenders. Should not these attacks be directed at them?

Well, first off, I tried to edit my original response as I thought the above was too harsh. But you read the post before I could change it. But I'm really not into "attacking" anyone. My point is that your vote counts. It has an impact. I have found that there is very little chance to change the minds of diehards. But I have chance with those on the fence.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Then the Trump supporters are the biggest group of offenders. Should not these attacks be directed at them?

Well, first off, I tried to edit my original response as I thought the above was too harsh. But you read the post before I could change it. But I'm really not into "attacking" anyone. My point is that your vote counts. It has an impact. I have found that there is very little chance to change the minds of diehards. But I have chance with those on the fence.

and someone who openly and loudly declares Bernie or Bust is someone on the fence?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Well, first off, I tried to edit my original response as I thought the above was too harsh. But you read the post before I could change it. But I'm really not into "attacking" anyone. My point is that your vote counts. It has an impact. I have found that there is very little chance to change the minds of diehards. But I have chance with those on the fence.

and someone who openly and loudly declares Bernie or Bust is someone on the fence?

Absolutely! It's being reported that 90% of the Bernie or Bust people have changed their minds and will vote for HRC. I think that a lot of them are younger voters who maybe care about their future.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

and someone who openly and loudly declares Bernie or Bust is someone on the fence?

Absolutely! It's being reported that 90% of the Bernie or Bust people have changed their minds and will vote for HRC. I think that a lot of them are younger voters who maybe care about their future.

I think that is 90% of former bernie supporters and not Bernie or Bust people. There is a difference.

 

[SLD]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-high-price-of-the-politics-of-petulance.html

Great article, IMHO. The Bernie or Bust crowd could give us Trump as a President.
SLD

Why?

Because they won't vote for HRC?

People who are voting for Trump also are not voting for HRC and are ACTUALLY VOTING FOR TRUMP.

Wouldn't a Trump preisidency be the fault of people who voted FOR Trump?

Those people want a Trump Presidency. The issue is for those of us trying to stop him how do we do it? I doubt we'll have much luck convincing trump supporters, more than a handful, to abandon him. The failure of those on the left to rally behind Clinton could allow a minority to elect a proto-fascist. The implications of a Trump presidency are too horrible to contemplate - not just for the U.S., but for the world. If you truly value this nation you will vote for Clinton. There's no other choice. You may not like her, but she's 65758 x better than Trump. Her policy proposal differ little from Bernie Sanders. You can fault her on many things. I get it. But the choice is truly between her or Trump. Complaining that she's not good enough is bullshit.

SLD

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-high-price-of-the-politics-of-petulance.html

Great article, IMHO. The Bernie or Bust crowd could give us Trump as a President.
SLD

Why?

Because they won't vote for HRC?

People who are voting for Trump also are not voting for HRC and are ACTUALLY VOTING FOR TRUMP.

Wouldn't a Trump preisidency be the fault of people who voted FOR Trump?

Those people want a Trump Presidency. The issue is for those of us trying to stop him how do we do it? I doubt we'll have much luck convincing trump supporters, more than a handful, to abandon him. The failure of those on the left to rally behind Clinton could allow a minority to elect a proto-fascist. The implications of a Trump presidency are too horrible to contemplate - not just for the U.S., but for the world. If you truly value this nation you will vote for Clinton. There's no other choice. You may not like her, but she's 65758 x better than Trump. Her policy proposal differ little from Bernie Sanders. You can fault her on many things. I get it. But the choice is truly between her or Trump. Complaining that she's not good enough is bullshit.

SLD

 

[ksen]

sez you

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Bernie was my first choice, not a perfect choice, but I thought better than Clinton. I will vote Clinton. With Clinton you get a lot of Bernie. With Trumpty Dumpty you get zip.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Here is what i think. I think we on the left think ourselves smarter than we are. I think we think that conservatives are children or idiots or hopelessly evil and not responsible for what they do, so we do not hold them accountable for their actions like we should. We don't understand them, so we avoid them at best and fear them at worst. We see other leftists as smart and safe and like us therefore accountable. So we attack each other and then blame each other when things go wrong (even after all the evidence says it wasn't any leftist's fault). We blame each other when the adult thing to do for each of us would be to blame ourselves.

 

[barbos]

In america, in the thirties, the fascists were the isolationists. Isolationism in the USA is useful to tyrants abroad. If Trump gets elected, NATO is gone. The principle of the alliance is absolute trust. If there is no trust between allies, there is no alliance. If Trump is elected, Putin will take the Baltic States, and their 4 million people will suffer oppression. The Ukraine war will start again, and probably Moldova will flare up. I can say these things with a fair degree of certainty.

So you compared Putin to Hitler.
Contrary to what TV box tells you Putin is not going to invade Baltic States if NATO is disbanded. I am 100% certain of that.
Disbanding or at least heavy reformatting of NATO would only make him relax and stop worrying about NATO moving closer and closer to Russia.