The promise of Christian Nationalism

[TomC]

Yes. If voting were mandatory -- as it SHOULD be, and IS in Australia, Brazil, Belgium and several other countries -- the Blues would win every election in a landslide*.

Call me a Damn Yankee if you must, but I'm not a fan of government mandates. I'd vastly prefer to make the POTUS an elected position, because I think that would help more.

Another way @Politesse and I disagree is that he thinks Trump should be in jail. I don't. I think he should be executed.

I'm not a fan of capital punishment. It's not only because of Trump's attempts to overthrow the US government. It's because I believe his continued existence will cause lots of death and destruction, even if he went to a sub basement in Gitmo. It's the same reason I was fine with executing Saddam Hussein. Not because of anything he did, but because of the death and destruction his followers would cause for innocent people. Removing him would end the possibility of people causing mayhem hoping to win a battle for him.
Tom

 

[southernhybrid]

One problem is that even if Trump was in jail, he still could be elected president and still could act as president. Unfortunately our foolish founders didn't understand that there might be a hardcore criminal one day who would become president. Plus, they made it way too difficult to amend our constitution. I've read that even if Trump is convicted of some of his crimes, he may not serve jail time due to the difficulty of giving him Secret Service Protection. That was just the opinion of some legal experts and as we all know, legal experts rarely agree on anything.

It amazes me how many of the former Republicans who were highly critical of Trump and who know he's a criminal are now endorsing him openly. WTF is wrong with these people and what is wrong with the attorneys who are defending Trump, even lying for him? That is why I will vote for a less than perfect man instead of giving help to a psychopathic criminal, by voting third party or not voting at all. I live in a swing state and right now, Trump is slightly ahead of Biden in the polls, so my vote is extremely important. I've known plenty of people who have never voted although some did vote when Trump ran in the last two elections. I hope they vote again and they don't vote for Trump or a 3rd party candidate.

Yes. War is hell! It's a horrible thing but how do we change a species that evolved from chimps, the original ape warriors? My late father suffered from severe PTSD as a result of killing other soldiers. He broke down and cried one day to my mother, telling her about the time he found the wallet of a dead Japanese soldier and saw photos of the man's kids. It haunted him for the rest of his life. Regardless if innocent civilians or members of the military are killed, it's still a horrible thing, imo. If you've lost a family member due to war, the heartache isn't going to be any easier regardless if the person was a member of the military or an innocent civilian.

Reminds me of an old soul song. "War! what is it good for? Absolutely nothing! Say it again".

 

[bilby]

If this was going on in another country with liberal democratic values and the religious radicals were in a realistic position to take power and create a Gilead or force the Law of Moses on everyone then that countries intelligence agencies would step in and start eliminating the leadership of those religious fanatics

Create a Gilead?

Thanks for letting me see this internal clip of the coming Gilead.

Gilead?

Did you miss the plot of Handmaids Tale?

Gilead is ruled by undisguised fake Christians who don't practice what they preach.

Almost all modern Christianity is fake Christians who don't practice what they preach.

The minority remainder is fake Christians who do practice what they preach.

All of Christianity (indeed, all of religion) is fake - it is based on the supposed existence of stuff that is (conveniently) impossible to detect.

If I sold loft insulation that was impossible to detect, I would go to jail for fraud. But apparently it's okay to sell gods, prayers, and afterlives that are undetectable, because it's a longstanding tradition.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

It amazes me how many of the former Republicans who were highly critical of Trump and who know he's a criminal are now endorsing him openly. WTF is wrong with these people and what is wrong with the attorneys who are defending Trump, even lying for him?

They are after money and influence. Lots of republicans are simply coddling to their crazy base which is for Orange ManBaby.

 

[Lion IRC]

...Do you fail to understand that the majority of Christians in the US and everyone who would put anyone they think is a "woman" "back in the kitchen" are 'fake' in this way?

I dont think that's true.
...that the majority of Christians in the US want that.

And even if a minority wanted that, it wouldn't amount to Christian Nationalism because other Christians wouldn't vote for it any more than they would vote for Amish Nationalism.

That nobody in the political movement for project 2025 are actually Christian?

The Handmaids Tale... Gilead test is whether they practice what they preach - not whether they are too fundamentalist to call themselves Christians.

Perhaps you missed the plot of The Handmaid's Tale?

I'm talking about the book.

You realize that the difference between a disguised Anti-Christian and an undisguised one is whether the Anti-Christian has power...

Thats trivially true.
...and irrelevant.

Both are faking it and both are not practising what they preach.

The guy in the OP is exactly that, an Anti-Christian.

Anyone who would vote for Trump etc, is.

Lion, Jesus preached love for the foreigner, making space for the refugee, acceptance of sex workers, and active support for sexual minorities...

You can argue about whether their stated version of Christianity is a WWJD (what would Jesus do) version. But that's beside the point.

Margaret Atwood wasn't writing about a dystopia where those in power were sincerely mistaken in their understanding of the bible or taking Christianity a bit too far.

Atwood very clearly exposes and differentiates good (sincere) Christians and fakes.

"They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them...whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean." [Not a quote from Handmaids Tale]

..if we are to believe the Gospels as to what Jesus believed, if there ever was such a person.

*rolls eyes*

We are talking here about the oncoming theocracy in the US.

Well, you be sure not to vote for a theocracy then.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

You can argue about whether their stated version of Christianity is a WWJD (what would Jesus do) version.

You forgot the "M." It should be WWMJD. The M is for My. Lots of different Jesus guys out there. Some hating gays and muslims, some liking prostitutes, some saying to nuke millions of people. So let's get the M in there where it belongs.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

Yes. If voting were mandatory -- as it SHOULD be, and IS in Australia, Brazil, Belgium and several other countries -- the Blues would win every election in a landslide*.

Call me a Damn Yankee if you must, but I'm not a fan of government mandates. I'd vastly prefer to make the POTUS an elected position, because I think that would help more.

Another way @Politesse and I disagree is that he thinks Trump should be in jail. I don't. I think he should be executed.

I'm not a fan of capital punishment. It's not only because of Trump's attempts to overthrow the US government. It's because I believe his continued existence will cause lots of death and destruction, even if he went to a sub basement in Gitmo. It's the same reason I was fine with executing Saddam Hussein. Not because of anything he did, but because of the death and destruction his followers would cause for innocent people. Removing him would end the possibility of people causing mayhem hoping to win a battle for him.
Tom

Compulsory voting is not a government mandate; it is a constitutional requirement, and it is enforced by independent institutions - the Australian Electoral Commission and its state equivalents, with no involvement or interference by governments; and no gerrymandering and all those other irregularities involved in the US system.

 

[Swammerdami]

Yes. If voting were mandatory -- as it SHOULD be, and IS in Australia, Brazil, Belgium and several other countries -- the Blues would win every election in a landslide*.

Call me a Damn Yankee if you must, but I'm not a fan of government mandates. I'd vastly prefer to make the POTUS an elected position, because I think that would help more.

Compulsory voting is not a government mandate; it is a constitutional requirement, and it is enforced by independent institutions - the Australian Electoral Commission and its state equivalents, with no involvement or interference by governments; and no gerrymandering and all those other irregularities involved in the US system.

In countries where voting is "compulsory" isn't the penalty for not casting a ballot usually VERY small? (Just declaring it to be "compulsory" encourages voting even if there is no penalty at all.)

I view the voting mandate as similar to anti-littering laws in that it enforces a "Categorical Imperative." If we want "government by the people", we need to ask the people to govern!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The reality is that if you don't accept the killing of innocents in war you automatically hand power to the most evil because they ensure that innocents will die in stopping them. Reality is ugly.

Israel is not minimizing civilian deaths. They have intentionally and openly widened their CCR to 20/1 and has many times over bombed refugee trains they knew had no military targets within them. You tell me I'm not facing the ugliness of reality, but you're the one avoiding the news because you do not want to hear about the consequences of your nation's foreign policies.

20 to 1? A reasonable projection from the data we are getting from Gaza (assume the Ministry of Health count is civilians, the Hamas count is civilians + combatants) is 1.7:1. For urban combat in general that's far better than anybody else (which definitely includes the US) even before you throw in the human shield tactics.

You minimize civilian deaths but avoiding them entirely is impossible. As technology has gotten better we have gotten better at hitting specific targets rather than just dropping whole strings of bombs in the general area. But it's still far from perfect.

Technology is getting better? That's a fucking joke, the AI known as Lavender has been a major instigator in all of this "collateral damage", and continues to be. During the first phase of the Israeli invasion, her operators spent less than a minute investigating each of her recommendations before ordering strikes.

The more accurate the weapon the smaller the splash needed to take out the target it's aimed at.

As for Lavender--pay any attention to the news about it rather than just bash it because it's AI?? They started giving it pretty free reign in targeting when it's accuracy was above 90%. Think the humans were perfect?!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Tom, with all due respect, Israelis could have easily sent in peacekeeping forces and engineers all this time to build and protect schools and hospitals until Hamas is seen as the violent gang they are and gets pushed out.

It would have put the peacekeeping forces at risk of bricks, and hate.

It would have gotten the peacekeeping forces dead. Or captured.

Or would have gotten a lot of them just there. The thing is, not enough people exist in Isreal who don't want the Palestinians dead.

And how would it have gotten them "just there" when any that went would be captured or killed?

Send enough people to keep them from getting kidnapped/killed and/or accept the kidnappings or killings when they happen because they are few and the unfortunate consequence of the ongoing horror that has happened until now.

This doesn't pass the laugh test.

Besides, as with everything else that has been suggested for Israel to make peace it would make things worse.

You're setting up a huge contact area for snipers, there will be more mistakes of shooting at things that aren't snipers.

 

[Politesse]

The reality is that if you don't accept the killing of innocents in war you automatically hand power to the most evil because they ensure that innocents will die in stopping them. Reality is ugly.

Israel is not minimizing civilian deaths. They have intentionally and openly widened their CCR to 20/1 and has many times over bombed refugee trains they knew had no military targets within them. You tell me I'm not facing the ugliness of reality, but you're the one avoiding the news because you do not want to hear about the consequences of your nation's foreign policies.

20 to 1? A reasonable projection from the data we are getting from Gaza (assume the Ministry of Health count is civilians, the Hamas count is civilians + combatants) is 1.7:1. For urban combat in general that's far better than anybody else (which definitely includes the US) even before you throw in the human shield tactics.

You minimize civilian deaths but avoiding them entirely is impossible. As technology has gotten better we have gotten better at hitting specific targets rather than just dropping whole strings of bombs in the general area. But it's still far from perfect.

Technology is getting better? That's a fucking joke, the AI known as Lavender has been a major instigator in all of this "collateral damage", and continues to be. During the first phase of the Israeli invasion, her operators spent less than a minute investigating each of her recommendations before ordering strikes.

The more accurate the weapon the smaller the splash needed to take out the target it's aimed at.

As for Lavender--pay any attention to the news about it rather than just bash it because it's AI?? They started giving it pretty free reign in targeting when it's accuracy was above 90%. Think the humans were perfect?!

Of course I fucking don't.The humans are genocidal religious nutjobs, Lavender just does as it's told.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If this was going on in another country with liberal democratic values and the religious radicals were in a realistic position to take power and create a Gilead or force the Law of Moses on everyone then that countries intelligence agencies would step in and start eliminating the leadership of those religious fanatics

Create a Gilead?

Thanks for letting me see this internal clip of the coming Gilead.

Gilead?

Did you miss the plot of Handmaids Tale?

Gilead is ruled by undisguised fake Christians who don't practice what they preach.

We aren't missing the plot. You are failing to see how the Republicans are trying to use it as a playbook.

Jesus certainly isn't about making people suffer! There is almost no correspondence between Jesus' teachings and the Republican objectives.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes. If voting were mandatory -- as it SHOULD be, and IS in Australia, Brazil, Belgium and several other countries -- the Blues would win every election in a landslide*.

Call me a Damn Yankee if you must, but I'm not a fan of government mandates. I'd vastly prefer to make the POTUS an elected position, because I think that would help more.

Another way @Politesse and I disagree is that he thinks Trump should be in jail. I don't. I think he should be executed.

I'm not a fan of capital punishment. It's not only because of Trump's attempts to overthrow the US government. It's because I believe his continued existence will cause lots of death and destruction, even if he went to a sub basement in Gitmo. It's the same reason I was fine with executing Saddam Hussein. Not because of anything he did, but because of the death and destruction his followers would cause for innocent people. Removing him would end the possibility of people causing mayhem hoping to win a battle for him.
Tom

Yup. I'm opposed to the death penalty in general. However, I will make an exception for those too dangerous to keep and I agree that he is one.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The reality is that if you don't accept the killing of innocents in war you automatically hand power to the most evil because they ensure that innocents will die in stopping them. Reality is ugly.

Israel is not minimizing civilian deaths. They have intentionally and openly widened their CCR to 20/1 and has many times over bombed refugee trains they knew had no military targets within them. You tell me I'm not facing the ugliness of reality, but you're the one avoiding the news because you do not want to hear about the consequences of your nation's foreign policies.

20 to 1? A reasonable projection from the data we are getting from Gaza (assume the Ministry of Health count is civilians, the Hamas count is civilians + combatants) is 1.7:1. For urban combat in general that's far better than anybody else (which definitely includes the US) even before you throw in the human shield tactics.

You minimize civilian deaths but avoiding them entirely is impossible. As technology has gotten better we have gotten better at hitting specific targets rather than just dropping whole strings of bombs in the general area. But it's still far from perfect.

Technology is getting better? That's a fucking joke, the AI known as Lavender has been a major instigator in all of this "collateral damage", and continues to be. During the first phase of the Israeli invasion, her operators spent less than a minute investigating each of her recommendations before ordering strikes.

The more accurate the weapon the smaller the splash needed to take out the target it's aimed at.

As for Lavender--pay any attention to the news about it rather than just bash it because it's AI?? They started giving it pretty free reign in targeting when it's accuracy was above 90%. Think the humans were perfect?!

Of course I fucking don't.The humans are genocidal religious nutjobs, Lavender just does as it's told.

You're not addressing anything I'm saying.

 

[bilby]

You're not addressing anything I'm saying.

Gosh. How does that feel?

 

[marc]

Ok, another blood pressure and/or vomit inducing clip from one of these right-wing lunatics that gets to hand with politicians at conventions