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The theology of a matrix/simulation

So I'm saying we might be in a simulation where one of its major purposes is to test whether the person is a Bible literalist (aka a YEC in modern times), a liberal theist (who believes much of the Bible isn't literally true) or an atheist. (or other options as well) It does this by providing people with good reasons to believe each of those things.

I think a major part of world history has revolved around these beliefs... including atheistic communism. I think the Holocaust could be related to Biblical literalism since it might be based on Luther's On the Jews and Their Lies - Wikipedia Genocide and slavery has been commanded in the Bible... apparently many of those against the abolition of slavery were Christians. Even today these issues come up a lot - such as those against the ordination of women (even a 24 year old intellectual I know is against it), gay marriage (my female Anglican priest friend supports it), etc.

Perhaps slavery and genocide were commanded in the Bible as a test to see if people will obey an apparent divine authority or whether they will look to their own "sinful wisdom" or still believe in Bible literalism and try to reconcile it with mainstream morality.
 
'You want then truth? You can't handle the truth!', couldn't resist the opening.

Like I said this is philosophy. Why are we here, what is my purpose, what is truth,how did things come to be...ad nauseum.

There are ways to deal with the questions, but there are no absolute truths. Pick an answer that satisfies you. I am generally in line with naturalism and science, A universe with no beginning or end just change. Life evolved through chemical natural processes. No need for a god, or guiding intelligence. Works for me.

Maybe I am being dreamed by a caterpillar.

If there is a guiding intelligence be it Christian god or otherwise they did not do a very good job. Asteroid strikes, earthquakes, hurricanes.

If this is a simulation by some intelligence then you can be deleted without notice.
 
So I'm saying we might be in a simulation where one of its major purposes is to test whether the person is a Bible literalist (aka a YEC in modern times), a liberal theist (who believes much of the Bible isn't literally true) or an atheist. (or other options as well) It does this by providing people with good reasons to believe each of those things.

I think a major part of world history has revolved around these beliefs... including atheistic communism. I think the Holocaust could be related to Biblical literalism since it might be based on Luther's On the Jews and Their Lies - Wikipedia Genocide and slavery has been commanded in the Bible... apparently many of those against the abolition of slavery were Christians. Even today these issues come up a lot - such as those against the ordination of women (even a 24 year old intellectual I know is against it), gay marriage (my female Anglican priest friend supports it), etc.

Perhaps slavery and genocide were commanded in the Bible as a test to see if people will obey an apparent divine authority or whether they will look to their own "sinful wisdom" or still believe in Bible literalism and try to reconcile it with mainstream morality.

Now you tripping, you are loosing focus and slipping into unrelated topics and possibly saying something about your self. What do Jews have to do with anything on this thread?

You are getting a bit weird amigo.
 
.....Like I said this is philosophy. Why are we here, what is my purpose, what is truth,how did things come to be...ad nauseum.
I'm talking about a simulation where an intelligent force is involved so it is about "The Existence of God". I also believe it isn't always obvious that God exists - see the OP quote about God in Futurama: "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"

There are ways to deal with the questions, but there are no absolute truths. Pick an answer that satisfies you.
I suspect that many contradictory world views (YEC/theism/atheim) can seem to be true... I suspect it is guided evolution and that Genesis was written to talk about modern YEC in a seemingly plausible way.
See:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?20409-Why-YEC-can-seem-plausible

I am generally in line with naturalism and science, A universe with no beginning or end just change. Life evolved through chemical natural processes. No need for a god, or guiding intelligence. Works for me.
Yep that's the atheism option - it has a lot of good evidence. I was an atheist a few years ago (see "Cheating at the Game of Life") and also soon after I started university in 1997.

Maybe I am being dreamed by a caterpillar.
I don't think that is possible with our current physics though a simulation where caterpillars can dream seems possible.

If there is a guiding intelligence be it Christian god or otherwise they did not do a very good job. Asteroid strikes, earthquakes, hurricanes.
I think God is aware of that, and there is a test of people's beliefs. An even bigger test is whether hell can last forever while calling God perfectly loving and just.

If this is a simulation by some intelligence then you can be deleted without notice.
Yes. Just about anything is possible including time travel.
 
......Now you tripping, you are loosing focus and slipping into unrelated topics and possibly saying something about your self. What do Jews have to do with anything on this thread?

You are getting a bit weird amigo.
It is still the same topic see
#35
https://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?20370-The-theology-of-a-matrix-simulation&p=754682&viewfull=1#post754682

and #25
https://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?20370-The-theology-of-a-matrix-simulation&p=754244&viewfull=1#post754244

That we might be in a simulation that tests for beliefs in YEC/theistic evolution/atheism.

This is a "theory of everything" (well within the theory that this is a simulation) - including the Holocaust - which is a very significant part of our world's history. I'm saying that the Bible could have played a major role by partly setting a precedent for large scale genocide:

Deuteronomy 20:16-18
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.
The Israelites didn't fully obey this and were punished.

I think a test was involved - note that Abraham was also tested when he was told to sacrifice Isaac.
 
What you are putting fort is essentially the Christian Intelligent Design theory. It says looking at the universe there must be an intelligent designer. It was developed to counter scientific evolution in public education without explicitly invoking god.

Any idea of a designer or guiding intelligence or a god leads to the question of where the designer or intelligence came from. You then have to explain how it came to be or say it always was and allways will be.

All are the same essential arguments in various forms. There are no possible proofs other than metaphysic attempts.

Because you invoke some nebulous theory of everything does not link Jews to anything. You are acting like theists interpreting vague snippets of scripture.

When I listen to Cost To Coast radio for amusement I her all thoughts of theories.

Did you know there are lizard people who can appear to look human?
 
What you are putting forth is essentially the Christian Intelligent Design theory.
I'm talking about guided evolution - in such as way that an atheist could reasonably argue that no supernatural element was involved... (like you, and at times me, believed)
e.g.
From the OP - "God" in Futurama:
"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

Also I don't believe in the Virgin Birth see:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...seem-plausible&p=755346&viewfull=1#post755346

And I don't really believe in the resurrection (though this is also true for some so-called Christians)

Any idea of a designer or guiding intelligence or a god leads to the question of where the designer or intelligence came from.
From a future world where things like advanced AIs and games that are indistinguishable from reality are common. The past of this world isn't necessarily the same as what our simulation is based on.

You then have to explain how it came to be or say it always was and always will be.
I don't know for certain but in theory the AIs/intelligences would be made from earlier AIs or humans or other type of intelligence.

All are the same essential arguments in various forms. There are no possible proofs other than metaphysic attempts.
I'm not saying I've proved this - it is just a framework or explanation.

Because you invoke some nebulous theory of everything does not link Jews to anything.
When I say "everything" I don't mean just physics - I'm including things like morality (absolute vs relative) like where justifications for genocide and slavery partly came from (in modern times some used the Bible as justification) In the Bible the Israelites were punished for not being as genocidal as they were commanded. I see that as a test from an intelligent force rather than being a story completely made up by humans.

You are acting like theists interpreting vague snippets of scripture.
Well I'm saying that Genesis was partly written to test modern people with black and white thinking/faith... see:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?20409-Why-YEC-can-seem-plausible&p=755346

When I listen to Cost To Coast radio for amusement I her all thoughts of theories.
I'm more interested an the three main world views that are involved: literalism, liberalism and atheism/naturalism. And these are held by "normal" people including the educated and successful, etc.

Did you know there are lizard people who can appear to look human?
My theories can explain that: I believe that there can be delusions and hallucinations.... though the people involved would assume it is objective reality. Theoretically it could be physically true as part of a simulation, but it is far more likely to be delusions and hallucinations (so that the world appears to be naturalistic)
 
So I'm saying we might be in a simulation

Sorry, I still need clarification. Are you saying we are playing a video game and our "avatars" are inside a simulation? This would be more along the lines of a matrix scenario, in that our bodies objectively exist in a prime world, it's just that some alien technology has tapped into our sensory input devices (aka, our nervous systems) and is feeding our brains with a false or "dream" reality, such that we do not know the objective condition of our prime bodies (but "suspect" we do in a vague plot contrivance kind of way).

OR, are you saying that "we" have never objectively existed and have no prime world and that everything is essentially ones and zeroes--guided by algorithms written by external beings? Instead of having avatars, we ARE the avatars.

I need to make something very clear at this point to inform your response, because, our objective nature follows this path in concurrent, ongoing developmental "stages" (for lack of a better word, though that is misleading as it's really all more fluid/dynamic):

  1. Zygote splits and "experience" begins, which is really just a slightly more robust way of saying "we start to gather information from the world;"
  2. Brain develops as a processor/storage component for experiences (still in womb);
  3. Fetus is born, its world and its relationship with it expands, brain absorbs information and rudimentary signs of processing occur, but initially, baby simply IS, without any higher thought process developed or needed at this stage; information/experience sponge, basically;
  4. Stimulus from the world (aka, "experiences," but at this level, more direct), causes more brain development and a feedback system begins to emerge between brain and information received through the body/sensory input devices (aka, the "senses" and nervous system);
  5. Child's world is initially just five inches in front of its eyes and expanding, over time farther and farther and farther out, like a ripple on a pond, such that, by age two the "world" of information/experience has about a five foot radius (and "object permanence" is fully set in); at age five it's the house you live in; age ten about a five mile radius (centered on your house); age fifteen--maybe you've been on a plane by then/travelled--but in general, around one hundred mile radius, which is important as it's the stage where you first understand that even though you can't physically see it, there actually is something over that distant hill or beyond your immediates senses, etc., so the extension of the object permanence to imagined objects, not just those you've more directly experienced;
  6. All the while the brain's capacity and functioning (aka, "maturity") is exponentially growing and filling up with information and honing its ability to discard non-pertinent information about this vast amount of information/experience it finds itself within, so the worm turns, so to speak, and instead of detailed maps of immediate prime reality, our brains start to store more generalized maps, with gaps and ways to fill in markers for things (essentially making maps within maps), because of the shear impossibility of storing and processing an infinite amount of information. The brain makes shortcuts, iow, and to do that it starts to reject or shunt repetitious information in favor of pertinent, or new information and it does this at TREMENDOUS speed and volume in a manner that the analogue self doesn't need to know about or be concerned with, thus forming a Cartesian theatre of some nature, with the "self" becoming the homunculus observer, but capable of feedback;
  7. Puberty is kicking in and that changes body/brain chemistry and higher order thinking emerges as a result of the exponentially growing feedback system of brain to information/experience back to brain again, etc;
  8. By late teens/ealy twenties, the final stages of brain maturity--full-on abstract thinking--occurs (in most), with a "radius" of infinity, or at least without limitation. The baby that started out not being able to process anything more than what was five inches in front of their faces can now imagine entire universes and contemplate infinite spacetime;
  9. 25 years old, brain fully mature and "in sync" (more or less) with the truly vast enormity of both spacetime (i.e., prime reality) and dreamtime (i.e., abstract thought).

Now, at some point during stages 5/6, the brain starts to develop an analogue of the entire body. A "narrator" which is the initial stages of a "self" that has an initial unique purpose; it is used by the brain to form a strategy for action prior to acting. It's likely first formed by "choice." When we're just starting out, we don't have any choices. Everything is done for us and/or everything is reactive directly to the "now" that is presented.

Even what foods we eat and when we poop and go to sleep and dress, etc. It's literally all on automatic (for the luckiest among us that is).

But at some point in some small, seemingly insignificant way, a choice is presented to us and our agency--our "narrator" or our "self" or whatever you want to label it (I call it an analogue) --is formed. We are no longer on autopilot; we are now on manual and have to consider whether to eat the blueberries OR eat the banana. Or something mundane like that.

It's the first time we "step back" and think about what blueberries taste like and do "I" want them now, or the banana?

Prior to this, it was just, ingest what was being stuck in our mouths. We might spit it out, but the whole notion of agency--of being able to choose--hasn't been introduced yet.

And this choice is encouraged, of course, but it is this capacity for introspection that has its first flicker in that simple binary proposition. From there it grows--again, like a ripple on a pond--such that our choices go WAAAAAAAAAAY beyond the binary and by the time we're 25 and fully comprehend (well, to our current abilities) that our universe of information/experience is apparently unbounded, well, that's where the zero is born and gods and demons.

So, what ALL of that boils down to is, once again, that our objective existence is: brain animates ongoing analogue of the totality of brain/body experience called a "self." It is a simulation and its primary job is to be placed--by the brain--into maps of the external world/scenarios, such that the brain can consider all of the alternatives--all of the choices--before acting in the prime reality.

This was, of course, vitally important to us in our early stages of evolution, where we could be killed literally any hour, if not any minute. Hostile environments meant our survival was, at the very least, day by day, if not hour by hour. In the whatever thousands of years since we first developed the ability to make an analogue of our selves--picked up a pebble and grunted, "This me" and placed it within a circle in the dirt to show placement--we have gone from a life expectancy of the next hour to, what, 90 years (and I believe, supposedly, the first person who will live to be 150 years old has already been born).

So, yeah, the purpose for that survival tactic--of being able to think abstractly so that we can plot different possible scenarios of how to kill that beast that's been killing our strongest and bravest--going from an hourly immediacy to something more like week to week; then month to month (where far too many of us find ourselves even in the richest countries); to yearly plans; to a few (10%) that can plan their grandchildren's entire lives; to a VERY few (infamous 1%) that can ensure that their great-great-great grandchildren will never have to hunt or worry about shelter or their health care, etc.

Iow, a simple tool used for immediate choice between possible outcomes/desires in an extremely hostile environment, over time, as that environment gets progressively less hostile (and therefore less of an immediate need to "war game" survival scenarios), that tool gets repurposed and the "self" analogue takes on new roles (social/emotional expressor, for example); and because it needs to be imbued with a sense of autonomy to go from brain map to brain map (yet retain its core reflection of the brain/body entire), it considers itself "prime."

But it really isn't. Brain is prime. Self is illusory; manufactured; animated. Simulated.

But also symbiotic. Again, when the brain dies or is injured or otherwise impaired (drugs, seizure, chemical imbalance), we see the malfunction that causes reflected in the "self"; in the "I", the reflection of the totality of the brain/body/experience.

And just to dig down a little deeper, because of quantum physics, we already know that our universe is made up of, essentially, ones and zeroes. We call them "particles" and they evidently behave like tiny vibrating strings, so it's a bit different than pure binary, but still fundamental and I believe the vibration is, of course, the key to it all, because that's how things get animated and illusions are generated.

Hence, thaumatrope.

where one of its major purposes is to test whether the person is a Bible literalist....

Ok, but, now, just take a step back for a moment (boot up all of the above) and ask, why would any being capable of creating either a false reality or a prime reality give a shit about a book they wrote, let alone using it to test characters they created?

Perhaps slavery and genocide were commanded in the Bible as a test to see if people will obey an apparent divine authority or whether they will look to their own "sinful wisdom" or still believe in Bible literalism and try to reconcile it with mainstream morality.

To what purpose? It couldn't serve the characters created in a video game, because they have no agency. It couldn't serve the creators of the video game, because in order to create it in the first place, they would have to already know its parameters and what would obtain.

But even if they didn't know all of the parameters or exactly what would obtain and therefore needed to "test" it, then they would necessarily need to test it on something that had full agency separate to them, not simply be abstract reflections of them. This is often where the misnomer of "free will' is mentioned, but that's actually not what we're talking about; we're talking free agency. Iow, the ability to choose, which, in turn, requires--requires--that we have equal understanding of all of the parameters involved and that our choice can in no way penalize us.

I need to repeat that. We MUST have the full knowledge of the creators in regard to what "morality" would entail AND be able to make a choice without fear of retribution for a "wrong" decision in order to make a free agency choice that would in turn serve the creators in any way (not ourselves).

That's what a "test" entails; not the ability of the student to learn, the ability of the teacher to teach. But punishing us for a teacher's failing is wrong. And yes, I'm stating that is what's exactly wrong with our entire education system.

The brain can imbue the "self" (the "reflection") with the illusion of free agency axiomatically; by simply creating the "self" with the ability to remain intact as it gets placed into countless thousands of different "maps" (scenarios, virtual realities), but it does so in order to serve the brain/body's continued survival.

The purpose, therefore, is entirely for the brain, NOT the animated self. It doesn't actually exist, only the brain/body actually exists.

So, the "sinful wisdom" or whatever you wish to call it cannot in any way serve the characters. It's not applicable to them; it's only applicable to the creators. So, you're necessarily positing that God is the sinner and that "he" created all of us to inform his own sin and how he should act, not any of us.

But that then immediately eliminates all omni-capabilities except the ability to blindly generate abstract reflections of himself, but, again, ONLY TO BENEFIT HIMSELF. Because HE isn't perfect; because HE is the broken sinner.

I need to caution you not to misinterpret that as being a sympathetic scenario that elicits your emotions and a desire to help, because in being his reflections--his creations--it necessarily means that he is imbuing us with his suffering, not our own. Which could only be described as pure evil. Torture, in fact. In that scenario, he is a serial killer taking a ballpean hammer to everyone's bones and sticking needles in our eyes--and doing far far worse and horrific things I'll not dig deeper into--because HE can't deal with whatever prime world pain/suffering he's enduring.

Now, at this point, once again stop a moment. Step back. Where would this idea--that we, humans, have come up with--be derived from? A creator that creates analogues of itself to make choices between variables prior to acting?

Do you see now where all "theology" springs from? Every religion on the books has never been about looking outward; it's all about looking inward. Because it's all about the relationship between the brain and the analogue it generates.

That's why platitudes like, "God is within you" and "God is everywhere" are such fundamental and essential components to all religions. Of course "God" is within you and everywhere you are and it created the self and its universe.

It's true once you understand that "God" is a referent to our brain and the way for the illusory "self" to understand its creator.
 
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I'm talking about guided evolution - in such as way that an atheist could reasonably argue that no supernatural element was involved... (like you, and at times me, believed)
e.g.
From the OP - "God" in Futurama:
"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

Also I don't believe in the Virgin Birth see:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...seem-plausible&p=755346&viewfull=1#post755346

And I don't really believe in the resurrection (though this is also true for some so-called Christians)


From a future world where things like advanced AIs and games that are indistinguishable from reality are common. The past of this world isn't necessarily the same as what our simulation is based on.

You then have to explain how it came to be or say it always was and always will be.
I don't know for certain but in theory the AIs/intelligences would be made from earlier AIs or humans or other type of intelligence.

All are the same essential arguments in various forms. There are no possible proofs other than metaphysic attempts.
I'm not saying I've proved this - it is just a framework or explanation.

Because you invoke some nebulous theory of everything does not link Jews to anything.
When I say "everything" I don't mean just physics - I'm including things like morality (absolute vs relative) like where justifications for genocide and slavery partly came from (in modern times some used the Bible as justification) In the Bible the Israelites were punished for not being as genocidal as they were commanded. I see that as a test from an intelligent force rather than being a story completely made up by humans.

You are acting like theists interpreting vague snippets of scripture.
Well I'm saying that Genesis was partly written to test modern people with black and white thinking/faith... see:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?20409-Why-YEC-can-seem-plausible&p=755346

When I listen to Cost To Coast radio for amusement I her all thoughts of theories.
I'm more interested an the three main world views that are involved: literalism, liberalism and atheism/naturalism. And these are held by "normal" people including the educated and successful, etc.

Did you know there are lizard people who can appear to look human?
My theories can explain that: I believe that there can be delusions and hallucinations.... though the people involved would assume it is objective reality. Theoretically it could be physically true as part of a simulation, but it is far more likely to be delusions and hallucinations (so that the world appears to be naturalistic)

Atheists believe in many things supernatural depending on the person. A weak atheist or atheist agnostic may reject the Abrahamic god but believe in some kind of ill defined higher power or cosmic intelligence. The Christian god and associated attempts at proofs and atheist who have such views in principle are the same. An unprovable higher power.

You believe you are in a simulation, as in Matrix. Then what? You get up in the morning, eat, shower, go to work same as most everybody else. You can test reality by not eating or paying rent and seeing what happens. Or jumping off a building and seeing if you belive enough you will bounce off the ground. I do not recommend it.

The question of any belief religious or philosophical is how it affects the quality of your life.

Putting aside our criticisms of religion, for Christians I have known faith generally improves quality of life. It gives them hope and a positive outlook in what can be a chaotic and violent world. To me believing you are part of some simulation is about as bad an outlook as you can have. You are just a character in a video game. You do not exists.
 
.....You believe you are in a simulation, as in Matrix. Then what? You get up in the morning, eat, shower, go to work same as most everybody else. You can test reality by not eating or paying rent and seeing what happens. Or jumping off a building and seeing if you belive enough you will bounce off the ground. I do not recommend it.
Well I did suspect I was in a matrix and I tried to "cheat" and then:

https://www.giraffeboards.com/blog.php?b=1572

The big picture of my story:
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...rix-simulation&p=754945&viewfull=1#post754945

The question of any belief religious or philosophical is how it affects the quality of your life.
Well when I was in high school I was wondering whether YEC was the Truth. I said to "God" that I don't care how depressing it is, I want to know the truth. And then for about the only time in my life I felt a strong tingling in my body. A few months later I was deconverted and jumped straight to atheism.

Note from
https://www.giraffeboards.com/blog.php?b=1572
I wondered what structure reality had. I thought about the yin-yang symbol. Was reality a battle between two opposites? I then thought about a very complicated flower image that looked like it was made up of three main loops. I can’t remember what those three loops meant exactly. Maybe one was the “right-hand path” of being a humble servant, the next was the “left-hand path” of being self-centered, and then was the “middle path” which I think involves respect and equality.


Maybe it is like this:
gordian-knot-small-gold.jpg
Where you can go to any of the three main options... (like I have)

Putting aside our criticisms of religion, for Christians I have known faith generally improves quality of life. It gives them hope and a positive outlook in what can be a chaotic and violent world.
My later posts in this thread involve a reality that acknowledges that Christians, conservative and liberal, can seem to have very good reasons for their belief. Same with naturalistic atheism. (and maybe other options)

To me believing you are part of some simulation is about as bad an outlook as you can have. You are just a character in a video game. You do not exists.
I disagree - if we are in an advanced powerful simulation it is possible that all of our wildest dreams could come true. If the intelligence (perhaps an AI) that is running the simulation approves, you could be put into just about any situation you could imagine. e.g. they could turn you into the boy in The NeverEnding Story at the end of the movie and give you an endless amount of wishes. You can eliminate boredom or depression, etc. You could alter/hide your memories so that simulations are more immersive:

In some types of simulation time travel would be possible, including the Groundhog Day scenario.

Note that for the sake of CPU usage and morality, many of the inhabitants might be "philosophical zombies". I mean if you were allowed to skin alive a simulated version of your enemy, it is more humane if they were a philosophical zombie and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway. So there is hope if you are a game character if the simulation is somewhat compassionate (like I suspect our "simulation" might be)

On the other hand, if we are part of a mindless universe then it is possible that maybe you'll be in a lot of pain for years and it could seem to you that the best option is to end it all.
 
We cerate our haven and hell

Chant 'it is all in my head...it is all in my head...'

Good lick on your journey to discover the truth.
 
.....OR, are you saying that "we" have never objectively existed and have no prime world and that everything is essentially ones and zeroes--guided by algorithms written by external beings? Instead of having avatars, we ARE the avatars.
I'm saying that Elon Musk's suggestion is that eventually there'd be billions of games that are indistinguishable from reality. We might not be the player, unless many of our memories were hidden to allow greater immersion and to have a pleasant surprise when the game ends... see:

In my attempt to make a simulation compatible with the Bible it should allow the God character (AI) to travel through time (aka retrocausality) In the Matrix movie time travel isn't possible (though they could speed up how past time travels [increasing the individual's clock speed])

....And just to dig down a little deeper, because of quantum physics, we already know that our universe is made up of, essentially, ones and zeroes. We call them "particles" and they evidently behave like tiny vibrating strings,
I've heard that string theory turned out to much of a failure.

so it's a bit different than pure binary, but still fundamental and I believe the vibration is, of course, the key to it all, because that's how things get animated and illusions are generated.

Hence, thaumatrope.
I don't think a simulation explicitly simulates every particle or "string". I'm talking about the type of one that would number in the billions, not like the Matrix where there is basically just one.

Ok, but, now, just take a step back for a moment (boot up all of the above) and ask, why would any being capable of creating either a false reality or a prime reality give a shit about a book they wrote, let alone using it to test characters they created?
I think it is extremely interesting that some people come to the conclusion that the globe is a conspiracy involving NASA (since the Bible only talks about a flat earth) or that genocide in the OT was perfectly just and loving. Or even eternal torture is perfectly just and holy:


I can't really imagine delusions for apparently mentally healthy people to be much worse. This topic can lead to a whole career of related books, etc. A main feature of a simulation could involve an intellectual journey with ambiguous clues.

excreationist said:
Perhaps slavery and genocide were commanded in the Bible as a test to see if people will obey an apparent divine authority or whether they will look to their own "sinful wisdom" or still believe in Bible literalism and try to reconcile it with mainstream morality.

To what purpose? It couldn't serve the characters created in a video game, because they have no agency.
I thought advanced AI could have agency.

It couldn't serve the creators of the video game, because in order to create it in the first place, they would have to already know its parameters and what would obtain.
If the simulation allows time travel and retrocausality then that could help. Though I think most of the simulations Elon Musk would be talking about wouldn't be very compatible with retrocausality.

But even if they didn't know all of the parameters or exactly what would obtain and therefore needed to "test" it, then they would necessarily need to test it on something that had full agency separate to them, not simply be abstract reflections of them.
I think AI can have "full agency".

......We MUST have the full knowledge of the creators in regard to what "morality" would entail AND be able to make a choice without fear of retribution for a "wrong" decision in order to make a free agency choice that would in turn serve the creators in any way (not ourselves).
No I think the whole purpose is to make it ambiguous - so that there are at least 3 choices that seem to make a lot of sense. So agreeing with genocide in the Bible isn't necessarily "moral" - you might have your own morals.

That's what a "test" entails; not the ability of the student to learn, the ability of the teacher to teach. But punishing us for a teacher's failing is wrong.
There is the threat of hell. It doesn't necessarily have to be real or at least not eternal.

So, the "sinful wisdom" or whatever you wish to call it cannot in any way serve the characters. It's not applicable to them; it's only applicable to the creators. So, you're necessarily positing that God is the sinner and that "he" created all of us to inform his own sin and how he should act, not any of us.
My Bible test is meant to be a paradox with no clear right or wrong answers. e.g. atheists believe that them going to hell isn't true so therefore they can make the claim that genocide in the OT is immoral.

But that then immediately eliminates all omni-capabilities except the ability to blindly generate abstract reflections of himself, but, again, ONLY TO BENEFIT HIMSELF. Because HE isn't perfect; because HE is the broken sinner.
In the simulation I'm talking about, literalist Christians have the impression that the Bible is 100% true. This isn't necessarily true.

It depends on your point of view and which of the three main approaches to the Bible you have.

The simulation I'm talking about doesn't always have objective good or evil - it isn't clear which of the three main options is more moral than the other. I mean Bible literalists would say that clearly the command for slavery and genocide was perfectly moral.
 
[MENTION=2680]Koyaanisqatsi[/MENTION]:
This talks about characters having free-will, or their own perception of free-will...
 
About the presence of an intelligent force in my life.... in January 2019 I paid $500 to register a company related to fat loss.
I also registered .diet and .game domains...

I later found out that it costs $100-$300 to renew .diet domains:
https://tld-list.com/tld/diet

and $310-$940 to renew .game domains:
https://tld-list.com/tld/game

i.e. I made very bad financial decisions - though I thought it could make me a million dollars.

Eventually I realised it only costs $13-$34 to renew .games domains.
https://tld-list.com/tld/games

So I registered lifes.games (I'm really pleased with the domain name and renewal price)

I based the webpages off of what I created for the fat loss websites (which are now gone because the domains expired a couple of days ago)

Here is a page I made about Flight Simulator 2020

Eventually I'll have pages for theology, etc.
 
I was under the impression that Heaven was made before humans. I was also under the impression that it had things like human-like angels, swords, and gold thrones, etc.


Why is it that humans ended up having gold thrones and swords? Because they copied Heaven? Or are stories about Heaven based on bronze-age imaginations? Or God guided humans to invent swords, etc?


If this is a simulation then Heaven could be based on reality or stories that are outside the simulation. Both angels and humans could be based on bodies of beings (possibly fictional) outside the simulation.
 
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I think for a God within a simulation to be as compatible with Christianity as possible he would be an AI. It would allow him to be "perfect". So then he would have a creator (before God created our simulation). The trinity could be programmed in. He would be omni everything. Jesus could become God incarnate. BTW in the Matrix movies, the Architect and the Oracle are AIs.
 
I'm working on a web page: "The Bible Test" - is it just a test of your character?
https://www.lifesplayer.com/bible.php
Perhaps an intelligent force helped guide the Bible's writers to test the character of its readers. The three main approaches to the Bible are: it is 100% true and moral, or some of the seemingly historical parts never happened, or it is just a collection of myths and legends that weren't inspired at all.

I think there are good reasons to believe each of these possibilities though any seemingly supernatural events are likely to be explained by coincidence, delusion or hallucinations.
 
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