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Told you so: The Patriot act isn't about terrorism

Yeah, outside the knee-jerk reaction to 9/11 seen in the original 2001 vote, only conservatives and Republicans have bought the nonsense that the Patriot Act is about terrorism (actually they didn't buy it either, that is just the lie they told to advance their authoritarian agenda).

In 2006 95% of House Republicans supported its renewal, but 67% of House Dems opposed. Again in 2011, 80% of Republicans still voted to extend it, while 80% of Dems voted against it. In addition, the 20% of Dems that continue to support it are almost entirely of the more conservative type in the southern and midwestern states.
 
Where is the person that thought this huge act that expands the power of the state that arose in an instant in an exaggerated crisis aimed to drive the nation towards war with propaganda manufactured by the corporate media was about terrorism?
 
Assume that any power you grant to the federal government to fight terrorism will inevitably be used in other contexts.
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I'd change that to: "Assume that any power you grant to the federal government to fight ___________ will inevitably be used in other contexts."
 
NobleSavage said:
Assume that any power you grant to the federal government to fight terrorism will inevitably be used in other contexts.
Click to expand...

I'd change that to: "Assume that any power you grant to the federal government to fight ___________ will inevitably be used in other contexts."
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But equally true is that any liberties granted to corporations will immediately be abused to harm the general public. What the pseudo-libertarian conservative want us to believe is that the government listening in on the phone calls of known violent drug rings is worse than corporations poisoning the air and water, and engaging in practices that destabilize the world's economy.
 
Americans have no memory of history. Investigative and Enforcement powers are always misused, even with public oversight. Enable secret operations and things get completely out of control.
The land of the free and home of the brave has cravenly given up freedom for a false security.
 
doubtingt said:
NobleSavage said:
I'd change that to: "Assume that any power you grant to the federal government to fight ___________ will inevitably be used in other contexts."
Click to expand...

But equally true is that any liberties granted to corporations will immediately be abused to harm the general public. What the pseudo-libertarian conservative want us to believe is that the government listening in on the phone calls of known violent drug rings is worse than corporations poisoning the air and water, and engaging in practices that destabilize the world's economy.
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I agree. Any organization can be at odds with individual liberty. Often the government and corporations are co-conspirators. What the progressive liberals want us to believe is that more government will somehow fix the problem.
 
seyorni said:
Americans have no memory of history. Investigative and Enforcement powers are always misused, even with public oversight. Enable secret operations and things get completely out of control.
The land of the free and home of the brave has cravenly given up freedom for a false security.
Click to expand...

What surprises me is that there are not more libertarian leaning blacks. The FBI blackmailing MLK should be instructive. The Libertarian Party needs to do some minority outreach.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...w-overwhelmingly-used-in-drug-investigations/

Less than 1% of the black bag jobs are actually terrorist investigations.
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So what? We have had the role of the citizen in this country reduced to one of being only an observer of the actions and policies of the rich. It's so bad, one may be driven to drink or perhaps take drugs to help you sublime into that role...then whammo it's slammo time for you. This whole national security idea is a bunch of hokey shit devised by rich seekers of obscene profits to actualize and provide cover for their criminal activitiesl I think the best description of our current system of government can be summed up with the word KLEPTOCRACY. It has always been that way. It is just more obvious today because the internet has made it possible for heroes of daylight to get the inside information on these criminals and make their actions known. It matters not one bit if the criminal is a government employee or a contractor or a huge corporation....the patriot act protects THEM and only THEM. We actually have known this all along, but you, Loren, keep arguing for secret government operations. You are a partisan in foreign conflicts. I don't think George Washington would appreciate you.
 
arkirk said:
Loren Pechtel said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...w-overwhelmingly-used-in-drug-investigations/

Less than 1% of the black bag jobs are actually terrorist investigations.
Click to expand...

So what? We have had the role of the citizen in this country reduced to one of being only an observer of the actions and policies of the rich. It's so bad, one may be driven to drink or perhaps take drugs to help you sublime into that role...then whammo it's slammo time for you. This whole national security idea is a bunch of hokey shit devised by rich seekers of obscene profits to actualize and provide cover for their criminal activitiesl I think the best description of our current system of government can be summed up with the word KLEPTOCRACY. It has always been that way. It is just more obvious today because the internet has made it possible for heroes of daylight to get the inside information on these criminals and make their actions known. It matters not one bit if the criminal is a government employee or a contractor or a huge corporation....the patriot act protects THEM and only THEM. We actually have known this all along, but you, Loren, keep arguing for secret government operations. You are a partisan in foreign conflicts. I don't think George Washington would appreciate you.
Click to expand...

So, is it too late? I've been of the opinion for some time now that all we have left, is to find common ground with those we disagree with in order to form a strong enough group to fight back against the corporations that rule the world. I hardly fault the politicians any longer. They are doing what many of us would do, grab a piece of the pie. Well, there are plenty of us with our noses pressed up against the glass that can only look at the pie anymore. I do fault Obama. He had us. He had our attention. He let it go.
So, what do we do? Shall we keep arguing with one another? Instead of banging our heads against the wall, trying to make the other guy see the error of his ways, listen and try to find that common ground.
Or we can while away the hours slinging poop at one another.
 
I think we should all be in awe of how quickly after 9/11 the Patriot Act was cobbled together. It is like they reanimated Isaac Asimov's corpse and filled it full of Benzedrine. The typewriter was clickity clacking all night long.
 
They already had it pretty well outlined. They were just waiting for a Klein shock to implement it.
 
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