DBT
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Just pointing out word use and meaning, which we apparently agree on.
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Why do people believe in hell?
- Thread starter southernhybrid
- Start date
Just pointing out word use and meaning, which we apparently agree on.
Lion IRC
Contributor
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2016
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- Basic Beliefs
- Biblical theist
In Australia recently there was a prominent evangelical sportsperson, Israel Folau, who got into hot water for biblical statements about the types of unrepentant sinners who might find themselves on the wrong side of a permanently locked set of Pearly Gates.
But even the hard core, evangelical fundy, or the bible thumping Calvinist preaching about the inevitible salvation of the elect and the predestined damnation of the hell bound, can't actually claim certain knowledge of whether Lion IRC or DBT or J842P or any single individual person are going to heaven or hell.
What's the good of knowing that the saved go to one place and unrepentant sinners go to another if you aren't privy to the final state of Grace that might be in their heart at the hour of their death. Israel Folau can make biblically correct assertions about what is and isn't sinful. And he can rightly preach about the doctrine of hell. But he can't personally offend me by asserting that I will go to hell because he doesn't know - and he knows that he doesn't know who, individually will or won't go to hell. He knows that (biblically speaking) God has the prerogative to judge people on a sliding scale and extend Grace and mercy as God sees fit.
"Amazing Grace how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me....I once was lost but now I'm found...was blind but now I see". Israel Folau doesn't know and doesn't claim to know whether the person who wrote those famous words actually goes to heaven/hell.
So the take home message about heaven/hell AFAICT is;
- Nobody is going to force you into heaven against your will. But neither does a loving God force the victims of the holocaust to share heaven with the likes of Joseph Mengele or Adolf Hitler.
- You don't need the One Name Jesus unless it's His salvation and His heaven you're interested in. Jesus is the only Way to get to His point "A" but if you want to follow someone else, don't be surprised if you wind up somewhere else.
- you can't accidentally be an unrepentant sinner. You have to know and not care.
- Nobody is eternally punished by a non-existent God nor suffers in a place that doesn't exist
- There actually ARE unrepentant, criminals/sinners who need to be permanently locked up because they will repeat their violent crimes if they are released. And the unquenched flames of 'suffering' they perpetually feel is their own rage against their jailer - which keeps on growing and growing in fury the longer they are there.
But even the hard core, evangelical fundy, or the bible thumping Calvinist preaching about the inevitible salvation of the elect and the predestined damnation of the hell bound, can't actually claim certain knowledge of whether Lion IRC or DBT or J842P or any single individual person are going to heaven or hell.
What's the good of knowing that the saved go to one place and unrepentant sinners go to another if you aren't privy to the final state of Grace that might be in their heart at the hour of their death. Israel Folau can make biblically correct assertions about what is and isn't sinful. And he can rightly preach about the doctrine of hell. But he can't personally offend me by asserting that I will go to hell because he doesn't know - and he knows that he doesn't know who, individually will or won't go to hell. He knows that (biblically speaking) God has the prerogative to judge people on a sliding scale and extend Grace and mercy as God sees fit.
"Amazing Grace how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me....I once was lost but now I'm found...was blind but now I see". Israel Folau doesn't know and doesn't claim to know whether the person who wrote those famous words actually goes to heaven/hell.
So the take home message about heaven/hell AFAICT is;
- Nobody is going to force you into heaven against your will. But neither does a loving God force the victims of the holocaust to share heaven with the likes of Joseph Mengele or Adolf Hitler.
- You don't need the One Name Jesus unless it's His salvation and His heaven you're interested in. Jesus is the only Way to get to His point "A" but if you want to follow someone else, don't be surprised if you wind up somewhere else.
- you can't accidentally be an unrepentant sinner. You have to know and not care.
- Nobody is eternally punished by a non-existent God nor suffers in a place that doesn't exist
- There actually ARE unrepentant, criminals/sinners who need to be permanently locked up because they will repeat their violent crimes if they are released. And the unquenched flames of 'suffering' they perpetually feel is their own rage against their jailer - which keeps on growing and growing in fury the longer they are there.