lpetrich
Contributor
Plato's Corner: "Welcome to Plato's Corner, where various tracts, discourses, and essays are offered without comment or reference."
The only document now present is the "Dialogue in Elysium" composed by Will Durant for "The Age of Voltaire" (1965) in his "Story of Civilization" series. It is between Voltaire (1694-1778) and Pope Benedict XIV (1675-1758).
WD lets the Pope have the last word most of the time, including things that I find very dumb if not outright dishonest and evasive. Could this be some leftover from when he wanted to become a Catholic priest?
As it is, it is often not as well-developed or as well-used as many of us might want -- something that is consistent with it being a latecomer ability.
After some back-and-forth about the French Revolution,
As to traditionalism vs. radical social change, I think that we should follow Aristotle's Golden Mean.
In another part, Benedict claims that people are naturally antisocial and thus must be restrained by fear of some cosmic bogeyman.
I will concede that we are not directly adapted for the sorts of large-scale societies that we have created. We are highly social, but we have limits as to how many others that we can easily keep track of. That limit is called Dunbar's number, and it is 150. We are also much more individualist than social insects, like ants, some bees, some wasps, and termites ("white ants").
But there are alternatives to fear of a cosmic bogeyman for enforcing moral compliance. Alternatives like social pressure.
I don't see how it rejects atheism or determinism, either.
Also, what would this pope say that about the miracles of other religions?
But over the last half-century at least, religiosity in several European countries has dropped dramatically. Also, evangelical Protestantism has risen in Latin America, something that this Pope would not like very much.
Also expressed is the idea that many people won't be able to endure their miseries unless they believed that they'd live happily ever after in Heaven. The belief that the "agony of death" is not a "meaningless obscenity" but a gateway to a "larger life". I find that rather silly. Death need not be a great agony, and death is a natural phenomenon. In fact, it's staying alive that's the remarkable thing.
That analysis also presumes universal salvation, officially a heresy in the Church, and it ignores widespread fear of Hell. It also ignores reincarnation and other religions' notions of Heaven. Consider a Muslim man who has never been very successful with women. He believes as a consolation that Allah will create a harem of lovely ladies for him in the Muslim Paradise (the 72 virgins). Should one try to deprive this gentleman of this consolation?
The Pope in it also claims that the Church fights superstition instead of encouraging it. I find that rather laughable. The Church has willingly endorsed superstitions that are convenient for it, like the magic powers of the relics of saints.
That dialogue also cited the Marquis de Sade as someone that atheism had made "the most despicable of beasts." Curiously, that dialogue did not mention Communism.
The only document now present is the "Dialogue in Elysium" composed by Will Durant for "The Age of Voltaire" (1965) in his "Story of Civilization" series. It is between Voltaire (1694-1778) and Pope Benedict XIV (1675-1758).
WD lets the Pope have the last word most of the time, including things that I find very dumb if not outright dishonest and evasive. Could this be some leftover from when he wanted to become a Catholic priest?
Reason (type 2 or deliberative thought) has enabled us to do what we have done, like that pope composing that statement. Without it, we'd be like most other species.
As it is, it is often not as well-developed or as well-used as many of us might want -- something that is consistent with it being a latecomer ability.
After some back-and-forth about the French Revolution,
In other words, social natural selection.
As to traditionalism vs. radical social change, I think that we should follow Aristotle's Golden Mean.
In another part, Benedict claims that people are naturally antisocial and thus must be restrained by fear of some cosmic bogeyman.
If one wants to advocate Plato's noble-lie theory of religion, one ought to have the decency to be honest about it, instead of trying to hush up honest statements of it as "immaturity".
I will concede that we are not directly adapted for the sorts of large-scale societies that we have created. We are highly social, but we have limits as to how many others that we can easily keep track of. That limit is called Dunbar's number, and it is 150. We are also much more individualist than social insects, like ants, some bees, some wasps, and termites ("white ants").
But there are alternatives to fear of a cosmic bogeyman for enforcing moral compliance. Alternatives like social pressure.
That's a dumb argument. It's like saying that one is the center of the Universe in some physically meaningful sense because one's vantage point is at one's location.
I don't see how it rejects atheism or determinism, either.
But much better supported "incredibilities" than tall tales about saints. I'm surprised that he didn't do some Lactantius-style ridicule of round-earthism.
I find that attitude *very* sick. If one can't keep going without believing in fairy tales, then one ought to have the decency to be honest about it. Sort of like devnet / emotional / Heathen Dawn from IIDB. He decided to make himself believe in an afterlife because he was afraid of death.
Also, what would this pope say that about the miracles of other religions?
That seems like the wishful thinking of a Catholic apologist, though I concede that I have been unable to find very good numbers for before 1965. Furthermore, this misinterprets the rise of US Catholicism. It's due to Catholicism having been imported by a large number of immigrants, immigrants whose descendants became accepted as worthy Americans.
But over the last half-century at least, religiosity in several European countries has dropped dramatically. Also, evangelical Protestantism has risen in Latin America, something that this Pope would not like very much.
Also expressed is the idea that many people won't be able to endure their miseries unless they believed that they'd live happily ever after in Heaven. The belief that the "agony of death" is not a "meaningless obscenity" but a gateway to a "larger life". I find that rather silly. Death need not be a great agony, and death is a natural phenomenon. In fact, it's staying alive that's the remarkable thing.
That analysis also presumes universal salvation, officially a heresy in the Church, and it ignores widespread fear of Hell. It also ignores reincarnation and other religions' notions of Heaven. Consider a Muslim man who has never been very successful with women. He believes as a consolation that Allah will create a harem of lovely ladies for him in the Muslim Paradise (the 72 virgins). Should one try to deprive this gentleman of this consolation?
The Pope in it also claims that the Church fights superstition instead of encouraging it. I find that rather laughable. The Church has willingly endorsed superstitions that are convenient for it, like the magic powers of the relics of saints.
That dialogue also cited the Marquis de Sade as someone that atheism had made "the most despicable of beasts." Curiously, that dialogue did not mention Communism.
