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AA fail: Getting into the university doesn't get you a degree

Just give higher marks to black students and knock the final grade down 5-10% if the student is asian.

Problem solved.
 
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/race-gap-narrows-in-college-enrollment-but-not-in-graduation/

Maybe you'll listen when he says it.

Or maybe you'll say the professors are discriminating.
How is this showing AA is failing. This gives a single data point from 2005. It does not indicate a drop, no change, or increase in graduating percentages or total aggregate. All this says is that blacks graduate from college at a lower rate than whites. Also, seeing how the percentage of whites going to college also increased during the period shown in the first chart, how much this falls on AA is completely unsubstantiated.
 
This is a problem. We call it poor retention. We want all admitted students to be successful.
 
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/race-gap-narrows-in-college-enrollment-but-not-in-graduation/

Maybe you'll listen when he says it.

Or maybe you'll say the professors are discriminating.
How is this showing AA is failing. This gives a single data point from 2005. It does not indicate a drop, no change, or increase in graduating percentages or total aggregate. All this says is that blacks graduate from college at a lower rate than whites. Also, seeing how the percentage of whites going to college also increased during the period shown in the first chart, how much this falls on AA is completely unsubstantiated.

It does, however, indicate that there's something going on.

If the graduation rate for blacks attending historically black colleges matches that of white students at regular universities in the 60-70% range (it does, I googled it) but is only about 40% for those attending regular universities, then that's a fairly significant red flag.

One of the main marketing tools for the HBCs seems to be that they offer a more positive learning environment for blacks that's free from all the racism and racial aggression which they receive at regular schools. Given that you have at least a 50% increase in the number of black students who stick around to get a degree when in that environment, it adds a lot of credence to the claim that regular schools create a negative environment for them.

Unless there's some other significant difference between the blacks who go to HBCs and the blacks who go to regular schools (or in the educational standards between those types of schools), it would seem that most universities don't make the place a welcoming and positive environment for black students.
 
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/race-gap-narrows-in-college-enrollment-but-not-in-graduation/

Maybe you'll listen when he says it.

Or maybe you'll say the professors are discriminating.
How is this showing AA is failing. This gives a single data point from 2005. It does not indicate a drop, no change, or increase in graduating percentages or total aggregate. All this says is that blacks graduate from college at a lower rate than whites. Also, seeing how the percentage of whites going to college also increased during the period shown in the first chart, how much this falls on AA is completely unsubstantiated.

It does, however, indicate that there's something going on.
Needs to improve, certainly. But the bar was set at "AA Fail".
 
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/race-gap-narrows-in-college-enrollment-but-not-in-graduation/

Maybe you'll listen when he says it.

Or maybe you'll say the professors are discriminating.
How is this showing AA is failing. This gives a single data point from 2005. It does not indicate a drop, no change, or increase in graduating percentages or total aggregate. All this says is that blacks graduate from college at a lower rate than whites. Also, seeing how the percentage of whites going to college also increased during the period shown in the first chart, how much this falls on AA is completely unsubstantiated.

Yeah, the kind of data they are showing and the way they are using it fails in every way to make the case that AA is ineffective. Even if we call that blip from 2009-2011 in admissions a "closing of the admissions gap", the graduation data is from 2005, meaning its from student who entered college between 1999-2001. Apples and oranges. Also, the admission rates include students in 2-year colleges, aka community colleges that don't use AA because they don't have standards and where most students don't ever go on to a 4-year school so of course they cannot graduate with a Bachelors. Minorities are more likely to go to a community college, so they are less likely to get a 4 year degree. No shit Sherlock.
Besides, trying to use longitudinal data is just not going to give you an interpretable picture. There are way too may things that vary across time (such as the economy) that have a big impact on who applies, how many apply, who goes, what major they take, and if they graduate.

IF the point is to argue that AA leads to a lower graduation rate among the groups targeted by AA, the better way is to merely point to the rather clear data that across schools and across years, and across gender and racial groups, students who get into a 4 year college with lower HSGPA and standardized test scores are significantly less likely to graduate. Those data are out there and the impact of these factors is large. Based only on this, it is really just a logical necessity that admitting more minorities with scores and GPA at the lower end of those admitted (which is the only people AA admits that wouldn't already be admitted) will lower the graduation rate of these groups. In turn, the non-minority students with higher scores who didn't get in as a result (it is a zero sum game), will necessarily be at the lower end of the scores and GPA among non-minorities. Thus, removing them removes the non-minorities that were least likely to graduate anyway, thus increases grad rates for these groups. In sum, so long as the non-racial admissions criteria predict grad rates (and they do), then it is a deductive certainty that AA admission policies will increase the grad rate gap between those groups AA is trying to "help" and other groups. Note that this is true, even if AA does increase the raw number of minority graduates (because it also increases the number of minority dropouts).
 
]Needs to improve, certainly. But the bar was set at "AA Fail".

Well, it might be an AA fail.

The highest ranking HBC is Spelman College, which is ranked #65 amongst universities as a whole and the next highest was in the high 100s. If a larger number of the top tier black students want to go to an HBC, despite it not being as highly ranked a school, due to all the other rationales for going to one and the top tier schools want a larger number of black students in order to meet their diversity goals then the students whom the schools are choosing from would not include as many quality applicants as amongst other racial groups who are far less likely to have as much of a compelling reason to go to a lower ranked school.

With only that type of selection going on, you would expect that situation to lead to a lower number of black students graduating due to their going to a school where the academic requirements are more rigourous than they're able to handle, since their fellow students from other racial groups didn't get in and instead went to a school with lower standards.
 
]Needs to improve, certainly. But the bar was set at "AA Fail".

Well, it might be an AA fail.
Could be... but unless we have a little historical data about African American college graduation rates, we have almost nothing to base any opinion on. The issue is indeterminate based on the data given in the article.
 
Unless there's some other significant difference between the blacks who go to HBCs and the blacks who go to regular schools (or in the educational standards between those types of schools), it would seem that most universities don't make the place a welcoming and positive environment for black students.

Blacks enter college with significantly lower college readiness (by every objective measure) than white students. That fully explains why they are much less likely to graduate (note that within each race those same indicators also predict graduation). HBCUs are well known for their lower standards to get in and to graduate. The list of the top HBCUs by ACT scores shows that only 3 of the top 20 had ACT scores even slightly above the average for all high school grads (including those who failed to get into any college or didn't bother to apply). And those 3 are just barely above average and below the avg scores for most of the very mediocre to poor regular colleges. That means there is not much competition among students because the range is truncated. As most college profs will tell you, "standards" for passing courses are set in part by the abilities of the student body. Profs cannot fail half their students. That would get them in trouble most places (after all grad rates help recruit students). So, if the avg ability and readiness in a college in lower, the standards to pass the classes are lower. IF a school is admitting mostly students that would struggle anywhere else, they will need to lower their standards to graduate. Many well known HCBUs have lost accreditation or are on probation for low academic standards (including hiring profs without advanced degrees).
 
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/race-gap-narrows-in-college-enrollment-but-not-in-graduation/

Maybe you'll listen when he says it.

Or maybe you'll say the professors are discriminating.
How is this showing AA is failing. This gives a single data point from 2005. It does not indicate a drop, no change, or increase in graduating percentages or total aggregate. All this says is that blacks graduate from college at a lower rate than whites. Also, seeing how the percentage of whites going to college also increased during the period shown in the first chart, how much this falls on AA is completely unsubstantiated.

It says that just because AA gets the underqualified in doesn't mean it gets them degrees.

This is a problem. We call it poor retention. We want all admitted students to be successful.

And does it ever occur to you that perhaps there's a reason they don't make it???? School is about learning, not merely about checking off meaningless boxes on certifications.

Unless there's some other significant difference between the blacks who go to HBCs and the blacks who go to regular schools (or in the educational standards between those types of schools), it would seem that most universities don't make the place a welcoming and positive environment for black students.

There's one huge difference--they have plenty of black students, they don't need to lower their standards to get "enough".
 
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