How much is "too diverse"

[laughing dog]

“Is it possible that at Morris, we've become too diverse? Is that possible, all from a marketing standpoint?” asked Steve Sviggum, University of Minnesota regent. (Are we too diverse?).

The regent, a former GOP speaker of the Minnesota House, didn’t provide any facts to support the assertion, saying only that he’d received a “couple of letters” from friends whose children chose not to go to Morris because they considered it “too diverse …. they just didn't feel comfortable there."

(When asked about the race of the children of his friends, Mr. Sviggum said he did not know.)

For the record, 32% of UMN Morris students are Native American, 50% white and about 10% black.

Sviggum had continued to defend his comments, telling telling MPR News on Monday afternoon he didn’t regret asking the question.

By late Tuesday, however, Sviggum changed course, saying he wanted to “unequivocally apologize for my questions.”

Think about it. Some old white guy from middle Minnesota wondered if it was a marketing problem that a campus was "too diverse" (i.e. not white enough). And some people wonder if why there are those who worry about racism in the USA.

 

[Jarhyn]

“Is it possible that at Morris, we've become too diverse? Is that possible, all from a marketing standpoint?” asked Steve Sviggum, University of Minnesota regent. (Are we too diverse?).

The regent, a former GOP speaker of the Minnesota House, didn’t provide any facts to support the assertion, saying only that he’d received a “couple of letters” from friends whose children chose not to go to Morris because they considered it “too diverse …. they just didn't feel comfortable there."

(When asked about the race of the children of his friends, Mr. Sviggum said he did not know.)

For the record, 32% of UMN Morris students are Native American, 50% white and about 10% black.

Sviggum had continued to defend his comments, telling telling MPR News on Monday afternoon he didn’t regret asking the question.

By late Tuesday, however, Sviggum changed course, saying he wanted to “unequivocally apologize for my questions.”

Think about it. Some old white guy from middle Minnesota wondered if it was a marketing problem that a campus was "too diverse" (i.e. not white enough). And some people wonder if why there are those who worry about racism in the USA.

It is in fact a fairly easily recognized law dictated by the math of generalized problem solving that distribution on an error surface among a population gives more probable action towards available low regions of the error surface.

Stated another way, the more diverse a population of solvers, the more likely it is they find correct answers between them.

As such this dictates that "too diverse*" is itself a contradiction, when the goal of the system is "solving problems".

To wit, anyone claiming some system with the goal of solving problems, especially when faced with these facts, is too diverse is saying so because of harbored prejudice. This in fact would indicate that they have a broken error function in some way.

This constitutes a strong argument based on principles of math that systems dedicated to solving problems ought maximize diversity.


*There is one notable exception: the inclusion of solvers with fucked up error functions. But to link diversity to race in this way is to necessarily, though perhaps not intentionally, say "people of other races are more error prone, necessarily". Of course allowing diverse error functions is still necessary, but only to the extent that the overall result is comparable in terms of final reified error.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Sorry for asking whether they were too diverse? What about the part where he alleges there is too much diversity. Is he sorry about that part? The part that isn't even accurate?

 

[Shadowy Man]

Doesn't "too much" imply that there's a "right amount". What would one suppose the "right amount" of diversity would be?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

What would one suppose the "right amount" of diversity would be?

 

[Jarhyn]

Doesn't "too much" imply that there's a "right amount". What would one suppose the "right amount" of diversity would be?

This constitutes a strong argument based on principles of math that systems dedicated to solving problems ought maximize diversity.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Doesn't "too much" imply that there's a "right amount". What would one suppose the "right amount" of diversity would be?

This constitutes a strong argument based on principles of math that systems dedicated to solving problems ought maximize diversity.

If the right amount is the maximum then "too much" isn't possible. But I'm guessing that's your point. But how do you quantify maximum diversity. No two individuals of the system shall be identical, right?

What would one suppose the "right amount" of diversity would be?

They're not diverse at all. They're all nerds!

 

[Jarhyn]

Doesn't "too much" imply that there's a "right amount". What would one suppose the "right amount" of diversity would be?

This constitutes a strong argument based on principles of math that systems dedicated to solving problems ought maximize diversity.

If the right amount is the maximum then "too much" isn't possible. But I'm guessing that's your point. But how do you quantify maximum diversity. No two individuals of the system shall be identical, right?

What would one suppose the "right amount" of diversity would be?

They're not diverse at all. They're all nerds!

Yes. No two members of the system ought be identical, or at least no two members should start identically.

Ideally, we would find football player software engineers and include them too, so we can make football playing robots, and football games, and games for football players, and SPORTS!

There in some respect does need to be compatibility within groups but that comes down to being able to respect symmetric consent. (Or as I say, "enforce the rules which allow the maximum amount of stable chaos").

So, we find ourselves in a position where those with broken error functions (the insane; the irrational believer), and those with the inability to respect symmetric consent create abject risk to the goal of effectively solving problems.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Doesn't "too much" imply that there's a "right amount". What would one suppose the "right amount" of diversity would be?

This constitutes a strong argument based on principles of math that systems dedicated to solving problems ought maximize diversity.

If the right amount is the maximum then "too much" isn't possible. But I'm guessing that's your point. But how do you quantify maximum diversity. No two individuals of the system shall be identical, right?

What would one suppose the "right amount" of diversity would be?

They're not diverse at all. They're all nerds!

Throw back to 80's movies with one black guy...

 

[southernhybrid]

I read the linked article. The guy that questioned if the school is too diverse is a Republican. Enough said.

The school isn't even very diverse at all, imo. The problem is that college attendance is falling all over the place and it has nothing to do with the make up of the student body. Anyway, he apologized and admitted that he doesn't understand the strength of diversity. I guess he has a lot to learn.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

"Diverse" means many things, not all things other than cis white males.

 

[Metaphor]

Think about it. Some old white guy from middle Minnesota wondered if it was a marketing problem that a campus was "too diverse" (i.e. not white enough). And some people wonder if why there are those who worry about racism in the USA.

You don't seem to have addressed your own question: how much diversity is "too diverse"? How much is too little? Can there be too little, or too much? What characteristics of diversity are important, and which characteristics are unimportant?

Take, for example, this Tweet, which celebrates the complete lack of sex diversity in a meeting of Huffington Post editors. (There appears, also, to be minimal racial diversity, but I assume that that is not the thing Heron wanted her audience to notice).


When the 94th Oscars were produced by an all-black production team, was there too little racial diversity? This complete lack of racial diversity did not seem to be too little, because the fact was celebrated, not hidden.

Of course, it certainly does accord with one particular conception of diversity. Years ago, as I watched Eurovision online live (where the year's theme was 'diversity'), a fellow fan (in the live chat) bemoaned that one country had a team of three white singers. When I asked why that was offensive to her, she said 'diversity means fewer white people'.

Diversity as laudation, of course, never means political diversity. There are no programs, as far as I am aware, for the American academy to reflect the political diversity of the American people.

 

[laughing dog]

Think about it. Some old white guy from middle Minnesota wondered if it was a marketing problem that a campus was "too diverse" (i.e. not white enough). And some people wonder if why there are those who worry about racism in the USA.

You don't seem to have addressed your own question: how much diversity is "too diverse"? How much is too little? Can there be too little, or too much? What characteristics of diversity are important, and which characteristics are unimportant?

My question was rhetorical. Frankly, I think the concept of "too much diversity) is ridiculous. And in this particular context, the issue is pretty clear - two teenagers felt the campus's "diversity" made them feel uncomfortable which prompted this regent to
couple the "too much diversity" with the downturn in enrollment.

 

[Gun Nut]

Doesn't "too much" imply that there's a "right amount". What would one suppose the "right amount" of diversity would be?

IMO, the "right amount of diversity" in a segment of society is the same ratio between intersectional elements that exists in the whole of society.
i.e., if 15% of the US population is Jewish, then one should expect to see 15% of a college's population be Jewish, if all other things are equal.
however, rarely are ALL other things equal.
In a meat processing facility that makes bacon, one would expect to see 0% Jewish people.
As an avid Skier, I can say the population of black people on Skis is pretty close to 1% or 2%, but black people make up far more a percentage of society.
The NBA has an overrepresentation of black people.
The MLB has an overrepresentation of Latino people.

So what's the formula? population weighted by demand (the number of Jews wanting to process pig)?

 

[Oleg]

So what's the formula?

How about we let people be free and stop with the social engineering?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So what's the formula?

How about we let people be free and stop with the social engineering?

...after all the social engineering by white people of course.

 

[Oleg]

So what's the formula?

How about we let people be free and stop with the social engineering?

...after all the social engineering by white people of course.

Yes. The social engineering by White liberals has got to stop. Please. Stop.

 

[thebeave]

Its a little strange that the US Native American population is about 2% of the total, yet they are 32% of UMN student body? Does Minnesota have an extremely overweighted proportion of the Native American population?

 

[Gun Nut]

social engineering? Interesting use of the term... it's definitely "affirmative action", in some cases.
I wouldn;t disagree with the notion that we should just leave people to their own, if it were the case that people actually want to leave other people alone... it is not the case. So, measures need to be put into place to prevent people from preventing other people to "be free", as you say.

 

[Oleg]

social engineering? Interesting use of the term... it's definitely "affirmative action", in some cases.
I wouldn;t disagree with the notion that we should just leave people to their own, if it were the case that people actually want to leave other people alone... it is not the case. So, measures need to be put into place to prevent people from preventing other people to "be free", as you say.

No. The problem is the progressive / CRT view that any disparity between groups is solely due to racism which must be fixed for “equity.” (This is not consistent, as when Whites or Asians are the underrepresented that’s okay.)