Obama: Free College!

[laughing dog]

But that quality maintains our competitive edge.

Of course it does. But that doesn't mean the pressure won't be there or that your institution won't succumb. I realize that the U of Mn is special in the eyes of the state and our legislature, so you may have more time or less pressure. The legislature is totally clueless when it comes to education, and it does (and will) bow to popular pressure or special interest groups.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

But that quality maintains our competitive edge.

Of course it does. But that doesn't mean the pressure won't be there or that your institution won't succumb. I realize that the U of Mn is special in the eyes of the state and our legislature, so you may have more time or less pressure. The legislature is totally clueless when it comes to education, and it does (and will) bow to popular pressure or special interest groups.

Yes, it is and I know you have a hellish funding system based upon enrollment and no other metrics. -- Correct me if I am wrong I only have "ins" at your central legal and finance areas. --and it is one of the reasons why I have not applied for positions in your system. I am also lucky that I work in a department that earns oodles* of money from business and government training which gives us more flexibility in what we can offer and allows us to get the right mix as well as experiment with new formats and offerings. We (the department) also have a mandate from the legislature to play nice with industry (aka advisory boards) to design and update applied degree programs to fit their needs.

Now having said this, we do have our funding and distribution problems with online courses (aka politics) and some very reactionary and dinosaur mentalities when it comes to online education. I've now forgotten what my rant was about.

*Technical term

 

[AthenaAwakened]

People say they want well rounded educations for their employees but they are lying. The last thing corporate america wants are employees who question the status quo. They don't want people who think outside the box, but people who can paint the box and sell that painted box to the public as a new and improved box.

And the deteriorating nature of higher education is not because of Comm. Col. transfer programs, which do have problems. That I will grant. But that does not explain the quality of graduates being turned out at top private and public universities across the country. These are students who, typically, spend all four years at university yet a growing number of graduates leaving these top tier schools are necessarily top tier people.


Are Ivy League schools turning out sheep?

The students who attend Ivy League schools are really more like smart sheep. That's according to William Deresiewicz, who spent nearly a quarter-century at Ivy League schools.

Deresiewicz contends that the overachievers at the nation's most elite schools are conformists, who excel at jumping through hoops without questioning why. The former Yale professor backs up his beliefs in a provocative new book called "Excellent Sheep: The Miseducation of the American Elite and the Way to a Meaningful Life."

He insists that the superstars attending Ivy League schools and other elite institutions are so focused on being perfect that they're terrified of taking a wrong path.

"The prospect of not being successful terrifies them, disorients them," Deresiewicz wrote in a much-discussed cover story -- Don't Send Your Kid to the Ivy League -- in The New Republic magazine. "The cost of falling short, even temporarily, becomes not merely practical, but existential. The result is a violent aversion to risk. You have no margin for error, so you avoid the possibility that you will ever make an error."

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Okay, back to the point I was trying to make. In my department our degrees are advances standing admission, meaning we do not admit freshmen. That being said we do not see a significant difference between community college and 4-year university students coming into our programs. We routinely refer students to community colleges for their first two years as it is less costly and will have better advising support as they get started.

- - - Updated - - -

People say they want well rounded educations for their employees but they are lying. The last thing corporate america wants are employees who question the status quo. They don't want people who think outside the box, but people who can paint the box and sell that painted box to the public as a new and improved box.

Well, when the employers who hire or graduates tell us that, we will rethink our strategy.


As for the Ivy Leagues: Yes they have fostered the culture of sheep, but they educate a slim minority of students in the United States.

 

[Jarhyn]

I've thought for a while now that the first step to education reform should be to take every student loan for every student who has graduated or is in good standing and make it legally uncollectable. The educational institution already got paid, the student already is getting taught. The only side that looses is the side sucking the lifeblood of the student. Essentially declaring eminent domain on all student debt assets. A few lender institutions will get utterly destroyed, and implode. Boo. Fucking. Hoo.

Then we need to just pay the tuition to all students in good standing.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I've thought for a while now that the first step to education reform should be to take every student loan for every student who has graduated or is in good standing and make it legally uncollectable. The educational institution already got paid, the student already is getting taught. The only side that looses is the side sucking the lifeblood of the student. Essentially declaring eminent domain on all student debt assets. A few lender institutions will get utterly destroyed, and implode. Boo. Fucking. Hoo.

Then we need to just pay the tuition to all students in good standing.

And how would that not hurt future students who want to take out loans? Is doubling or tripling their interest rates on their loans an acceptable payoff?

 

[rednoise]

I've thought for a while now that the first step to education reform should be to take every student loan for every student who has graduated or is in good standing and make it legally uncollectable. The educational institution already got paid, the student already is getting taught. The only side that looses is the side sucking the lifeblood of the student. Essentially declaring eminent domain on all student debt assets. A few lender institutions will get utterly destroyed, and implode. Boo. Fucking. Hoo.

Then we need to just pay the tuition to all students in good standing.

And how would that not hurt future students who want to take out loans? Is doubling or tripling their interest rates on their loans an acceptable payoff?

Don't make it a system where school is paid for by loans at all, so they won't have to take out loans. Directly fund higher education through a mixture of federal and state funds (the primary reason school is so expensive these days is because states have cut funding for universities.) I'm pretty sure between the choice of no tuition and taking out a loan to pay for tuition, then students will probably opt for the choice of no tuition... oh... 100% of the time.