High Kicks and Low Wages: The price of being a NFL Cheerleader.

[Derec]

Work is work and the law must apply regardless of other income. Once you make exceptions, exceptions can become the rule and the very people you just named could wind up being the most exploited.

Just curious: are you in favor of applying this to all volunteer work?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Cheerleaders do more than rah rah rah

They are PR reps for the team
They do charity work for the team
They train and practice and risk injury for the benefit of the team

They are also subject to a set of rules that would define them as employees in any other profession but they are carried as independent contractors thus the lower than minimum wage compensation. IN OTHER WORDS, they are being cheated of just compensation demanded by law.

Now this may not bother you, (afterall they are just cheerleaders, right?) but whenever people are cheated and willfully treated as less than, it bothers the hell out of me.

Yeah, they are important to the people selling tickets and TV rights allright, but isn't the entire game a bullshit operation that harms the brains of the players in the first place? That is why it doesn't bother me. Any reason to make football less important in anybody's life is a good thing.

So the exploitation is ok? Actually it isn't. when something is bad, making it worse doesn't make it go away, it just makes it worse. And since this particular thing makes billions of dollars a year, treating women worse than shit certainly won't make it go away. If that were the case, revealed religion would have died long ago.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Work is work and the law must apply regardless of other income. Once you make exceptions, exceptions can become the rule and the very people you just named could wind up being the most exploited.

Just curious: are you in favor of applying this to all volunteer work?

this isn't volunteer work

If your brain can't grasp that simple fact, ...





I would not be at all surprised.

 

[ksen]

why should any company have to pay anyone? you know how many people would love to get out of their homes to do something? make every job a volunteer job.

 

[dismal]

Yeah, they are important to the people selling tickets and TV rights allright, but isn't the entire game a bullshit operation that harms the brains of the players in the first place? That is why it doesn't bother me. Any reason to make football less important in anybody's life is a good thing.

So the exploitation is ok? Actually it isn't. when something is bad, making it worse doesn't make it go away, it just makes it worse. And since this particular thing makes billions of dollars a year, treating women worse than shit certainly won't make it go away. If that were the case, revealed religion would have died long ago.

Tip: if thousands of people are willing to do it for nothing it's probably not "exploitation".

Do I deserve to be paid minimum wage when I work out at the gym or when I play golf?

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why should any company have to pay anyone? you know how many people would love to get out of their homes to do something? make every job a volunteer job.

I'll bet if you thought about it for a while you could come up with the answer to this on your own.

Do you need a hint?

 

[Togo]

So the exploitation is ok? Actually it isn't. when something is bad, making it worse doesn't make it go away, it just makes it worse. And since this particular thing makes billions of dollars a year, treating women worse than shit certainly won't make it go away. If that were the case, revealed religion would have died long ago.

Tip: if thousands of people are willing to do it for nothing it's probably not "exploitation".

So prostution can't be exploitative because lots of people have sex for free?

If the NFL want to make Cheerleading explicitly a volunteer program, then of course they can do so. Cheerleaders would explicitly be volunteers, not subject to employment contracts, not subject to controls over their personal lives, and the NFL would not own their image, creative work, or spare time, or be able to require more than a few hours of work a day. They may have issues working with under 18s, unless the the NFL exercised a duty of care over their background, history and conduct while volunteering. The result would probably look a bit cheap, but then the NFL is cheap, aren't they?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

So the exploitation is ok? Actually it isn't. when something is bad, making it worse doesn't make it go away, it just makes it worse. And since this particular thing makes billions of dollars a year, treating women worse than shit certainly won't make it go away. If that were the case, revealed religion would have died long ago.

Tip: if thousands of people are willing to do it for nothing it's probably not "exploitation".

Wrong. Millions of American slaves on two continents over centuries believe their lot to be while horrific, a part of the natural order and that the best they could hope for, pray to their god for, was a good master. Women on this planet to this day believe various forms of second class citizenship are really good things. Believing a lie does not make it true (sorry YEC) and since in this case the women involved were always paid and are now suing for better conditions and pay, they evidently aren't "willing to do it for nothing" so your argument fails on all levels.

Do I deserve to be paid minimum wage when I work out at the gym or when I play golf?

you don't see the difference between buying a service or renting a space and being employed at a job? the concepts are quite simple. I would have thought you would have understood them by now.

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why should any company have to pay anyone? you know how many people would love to get out of their homes to do something? make every job a volunteer job.

I'll bet if you thought about it for a while you could come up with the answer to this on your own.

Do you need a hint?

 

[dismal]

Tip: if thousands of people are willing to do it for nothing it's probably not "exploitation".

So prostution can't be exploitative because lots of people have sex for free?

Logic fail.

Correct parallel would be "having sex for free with someone who is willing to have sex for free is not exploitative because they are willing to have sex for free".

 

[AthenaAwakened]

So prostution can't be exploitative because lots of people have sex for free?

Logic fail.

Correct parallel would be "having sex for free with someone who is willing to have sex for free is not exploitative because they are willing to have sex for free".

No cheerleaders in the NFL work for free.

 

[dismal]

Tip: if thousands of people are willing to do it for nothing it's probably not "exploitation".

Wrong. Millions of American slaves on two continents over centuries believe their lot to be while horrific, a part of the natural order and that the best they could hope for, pray to their god for, was a good master. Women on this planet to this day believe various forms of second class citizenship are really good things. Believing a lie does not make it true (sorry YEC) and since in this case the women involved were always paid and are now suing for better conditions and pay, they evidently aren't "willing to do it for nothing" so your argument fails on all levels.

Great moments in internet history.

Near this spot on Feb 3, 2015 someone argued that African slavery was voluntary in a thread about NFL cheerleaders.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Wrong. Millions of American slaves on two continents over centuries believe their lot to be while horrific, a part of the natural order and that the best they could hope for, pray to their god for, was a good master. Women on this planet to this day believe various forms of second class citizenship are really good things. Believing a lie does not make it true (sorry YEC) and since in this case the women involved were always paid and are now suing for better conditions and pay, they evidently aren't "willing to do it for nothing" so your argument fails on all levels.

Great moments in internet history.

Near this spot on Feb 3, 2015 someone argued that African slavery was voluntary in a thread about NFL cheerleaders.

And this post negates nothing in the one referenced.
so once again you fail.

 

[Togo]

So prostution can't be exploitative because lots of people have sex for free?

Logic fail.

Correct parallel would be "having sex for free with someone who is willing to have sex for free is not exploitative because they are willing to have sex for free".

Having sex with someone with no money changing hands can certainly be exploitative. There's no relationship between whether something is exploitative, and whether people are willing to do it. That's why your 'tip' doesn't work.

 

[ksen]

why should any company have to pay anyone? you know how many people would love to get out of their homes to do something? make every job a volunteer job.

I'll bet if you thought about it for a while you could come up with the answer to this on your own.

Do you need a hint?

Nope, I don't need a hint. The answer is because suggesting that the solution to labor law violations is to go to a volunteer workforce is stupid on the face of it.

 

[dismal]

There's no relationship between whether something is exploitative, and whether people are willing to do it.

So is being a cheerleader one of those areas where it is not a woman's right to choose what she does with her body?

You will override their voluntary choice and decide for them that they are being exploited?

 

[dismal]

I'll bet if you thought about it for a while you could come up with the answer to this on your own.

Do you need a hint?

Nope, I don't need a hint. The answer is because suggesting that the solution to labor law violations is to go to a volunteer workforce is stupid on the face of it.

Nope, that's not it.

Here's a research project that may help: Go outside and start asking for volunteers to scrub your toilets. Report back with the results.

 

[Medicine Man]

you can actually go to college on a cheerleading scholarship.

America is batshit insane. How the fuck did you guys end up as the most powerful nation on Earth?

You haven't heard about The Big Stick (typically used on folks, too-small to fight back)???

*



*​

Smedley Butler;
Major General - USMC​

 

[ksen]

Nope, I don't need a hint. The answer is because suggesting that the solution to labor law violations is to go to a volunteer workforce is stupid on the face of it.

Nope, that's not it.

Here's a research project that may help: Go outside and start asking for volunteers to scrub your toilets. Report back with the results.

Here's a research project for you. Ask any first year law student if the potentiality of having an all volunteer workforce has any bearing over current labor law violations.

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Hmm, what other chick jobs should be non-paid volunteer work since there'd be so many volunteers to do it for free?

1. hollywood starlet
2. supermodel
3. hooter's waitress

feel free to add your own

 

[Togo]

You will override their...

Eh? When have I suggested anything like that? I've not suggested any course of action on this thread, as far as I know...

Here's a research project that may help: Go outside and start asking for volunteers to scrub your toilets. Report back with the results.

Ok, I now have two volunteers. They're often at my house, they use the toilet, and I had to cancel their last visit because my wife had a norovirus, one of those ones that causes you to explode at both ends. They were surpisingly keen to help, because my house is a venue where they regularly participate. Thanks for showing me that people are better than I thought.

Of course, the NFL could go the same way. The result, as I say, would look a little cheap, but it would still work. Of course replacing the cheerleaders with volunteers risks making all that 'we really value these girls as part of the team' guff as being hypocritical nonsense, and not as much PR work would get done, but hey, it might save a little money.

In the meantime, we can continue to note that, in the NFL, men only positions are very well paid and woman-only positions are subject to extraordinary loopholes just to avoid paying minimum wage, and draw our own conclusions. If there's nothing wrong with that situation, then the NFL will suffer nothing from the point being brought up in public as often as possible. I'm sure the fans will commend them on their thrift and ingenuity.

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Nope, that's not it.

Here's a research project that may help: Go outside and start asking for volunteers to scrub your toilets. Report back with the results.

Here's a research project for you. Ask any first year law student if the potentiality of having an all volunteer workforce has any bearing over current labor law violations.

- - - Updated - - -

Hmm, what other chick jobs should be non-paid volunteer work since there'd be so many volunteers to do it for free?

1. hollywood starlet
2. supermodel
3. hooter's waitress

feel free to add your own

Childcare
Dishwashing
Laundry services

 

[ksen]

Hmm, what other chick jobs should be non-paid volunteer work since there'd be so many volunteers to do it for free?

1. hollywood starlet
2. supermodel
3. hooter's waitress

feel free to add your own

Childcare
Dishwashing
Laundry services

That's housewifery and it's already nonpaid.

 

[dismal]

Eh? When have I suggested anything like that? I've not suggested any course of action on this thread, as far as I know...

Here's a research project that may help: Go outside and start asking for volunteers to scrub your toilets. Report back with the results.

Ok, I now have two volunteers. They're often at my house, they use the toilet, and I had to cancel their last visit because my wife had a norovirus, one of those ones that causes you to explode at both ends. They were surpisingly keen to help, because my house is a venue where they regularly participate. Thanks for showing me that people are better than I thought.

Of course, the NFL could go the same way. The result, as I say, would look a little cheap, but it would still work. Of course replacing the cheerleaders with volunteers risks making all that 'we really value these girls as part of the team' guff as being hypocritical nonsense, and not as much PR work would get done, but hey, it might save a little money.

In the meantime, we can continue to note that, in the NFL, men only positions are very well paid and woman-only positions are subject to extraordinary loopholes just to avoid paying minimum wage, and draw our own conclusions. If there's nothing wrong with that situation, then the NFL will suffer nothing from the point being brought up in public as often as possible. I'm sure the fans will commend them on their thrift and ingenuity.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope, that's not it.

Here's a research project that may help: Go outside and start asking for volunteers to scrub your toilets. Report back with the results.

Here's a research project for you. Ask any first year law student if the potentiality of having an all volunteer workforce has any bearing over current labor law violations.

- - - Updated - - -

Hmm, what other chick jobs should be non-paid volunteer work since there'd be so many volunteers to do it for free?

1. hollywood starlet
2. supermodel
3. hooter's waitress

feel free to add your own

Childcare
Dishwashing
Laundry services

I'm a bit surprised you don't feel as if your arguments have entered the areas of desperate and absurd.

If you actually do believe can find volunteers to clean the toilets of the world I question how closely tethered you are to reality. Also, in your zeal to nit pick you seem to have bolstered my side of the argument in that I'm sure anyone would agree it would be far easier to find volunteers to be professional cheerleaders than toilet cleaners.

Where I don't disagree with you is that the quality of cheerleaders could suffer. But again connecting pay to willingness to perform seems to undercut your "but people are willing to volunteer to do anything" nit pick.

Speaking of quality of dancers, here's a video that shows two Dallas Mavericks spirit teams going head to head in a dance off. I don't know for a fact, but I would guess at least one of them is all-volunteer.

[YOUTUBE]132lTE39b3w[/YOUTUBE]