Israel launches unprovoked attack on Syria

[DrZoidberg]

Israeli forces fire at Syrian protesters in Deraa, wounding one

Demonstrators demand an end to Israeli military presence in border town in southern governorate.

www.aljazeera.com

Of course. IDF moves into a UN patrolled buffer so locals are now too close to Israeli forces and get shot for protesting too close to Israeli forces. Netanyahoo logic.

Do you honestly not understand why its a good thing that Israel moves into what otherwise would be a power vaccuum? Syria has tonnes of rebel groups armed to the teeth. The new Syrian government is not at all secure yet. And has a leader on the "terror most wanted list".

Allowing a anarchic no man's land would be extremely dangerous

 

[TV and credit cards]

Israeli forces fire at Syrian protesters in Deraa, wounding one

Demonstrators demand an end to Israeli military presence in border town in southern governorate.

www.aljazeera.com

Of course. IDF moves into a UN patrolled buffer so locals are now too close to Israeli forces and get shot for protesting too close to Israeli forces. Netanyahoo logic.

Do you honestly not understand why its a good thing that Israel moves into what otherwise would be a power vaccuum? Syria has tonnes of rebel groups armed to the teeth. The new Syrian government is not at all secure yet. And has a leader on the "terror most wanted list".

Allowing a anarchic no man's land would be extremely dangerous

I'd like to know where you get your intel from on these "tonnes of rebel groups armed to the teeth". Power vacuum? That in my mind's eye would indicate the absence of government in Syria. This is not the case. And I do believe the US just dropped the $10M reward on HTS leader Ahmed al-Sharaa after having positive talks with him.

And the buffer wasn't a "no man's land". It was occupied by UN forces.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Israel’s borders have shifted throughout its history. Action in Syria may reshape them again
Gee, ya think? There aren't but a handful of people over the age of twelve who would have thought otherwise.

But in Tuesday’s visit to the Syrian side of the buffer zone, Netanyahu made clear that Israel plans on staying for some time. Speaking on the windswept summit of Mount Hermon overlooking Syria, he said Israel would remain “until another arrangement is found that will ensure Israel’s security.”

Always have to take more of what doesn't belong to you in the name of security.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Israeli forces fire at Syrian protesters in Deraa, wounding one

Demonstrators demand an end to Israeli military presence in border town in southern governorate.

www.aljazeera.com

Of course. IDF moves into a UN patrolled buffer so locals are now too close to Israeli forces and get shot for protesting too close to Israeli forces. Netanyahoo logic.

Do you honestly not understand why its a good thing that Israel moves into what otherwise would be a power vaccuum? Syria has tonnes of rebel groups armed to the teeth. The new Syrian government is not at all secure yet. And has a leader on the "terror most wanted list".

Allowing a anarchic no man's land would be extremely dangerous

I'd like to know where you get your intel from on these "tonnes of rebel groups armed to the teeth". Power vacuum? That in my mind's eye would indicate the absence of government in Syria. This is not the case.

The news

HTS controls a handful of major cities. The fact that they have no credible opposition is a world apart from controlling the country

A problem in Syria now is that all the top government officials have fled into exile. Large parts of the administration has just evaporated

The Assad regime was one of the most brutal in human history. So these guys fled for a good reason

HTS has still not disarmed any opposing rebel group. They are all still around

And I do believe the US just dropped the $10M reward on HTS leader Ahmed al-Sharaa after having positive talks with him.

You don't seem to understand how diplomacy works

Jolani still hasn't demonstrated to anyone what his true intentions are. So far it's just been talk.

And the buffer wasn't a "no man's land". It was occupied by UN forces.

Lol. You also don't seem to understand how territories are protected

 

[TV and credit cards]

Israeli forces fire at Syrian protesters in Deraa, wounding one

Demonstrators demand an end to Israeli military presence in border town in southern governorate.

www.aljazeera.com

Of course. IDF moves into a UN patrolled buffer so locals are now too close to Israeli forces and get shot for protesting too close to Israeli forces. Netanyahoo logic.

Do you honestly not understand why its a good thing that Israel moves into what otherwise would be a power vaccuum? Syria has tonnes of rebel groups armed to the teeth. The new Syrian government is not at all secure yet. And has a leader on the "terror most wanted list".

Allowing a anarchic no man's land would be extremely dangerous

I'd like to know where you get your intel from on these "tonnes of rebel groups armed to the teeth". Power vacuum? That in my mind's eye would indicate the absence of government in Syria. This is not the case.

The news

HTS controls a handful of major cities. The fact that they have no credible opposition is a world apart from controlling the country

A problem in Syria now is that all the top government officials have fled into exile. Large parts of the administration has just evaporated

The Assad regime was one of the most brutal in human history. So these guys fled for a good reason

HTS has still not disarmed any opposing rebel group. They are all still around

And I do believe the US just dropped the $10M reward on HTS leader Ahmed al-Sharaa after having positive talks with him.

You don't seem to understand how diplomacy works

Jolani still hasn't demonstrated to anyone what his true intentions are. So far it's just been talk.

And the buffer wasn't a "no man's land". It was occupied by UN forces.

Lol. You also don't seem to understand how territories are protected

So are we shifting from "power vacuum" to "controlling the country" now, the absence of government to securing even rural areas?

I would venture to guess many in Assad's government fled for a variety of reasons not just for any connection to "brutality" as you indicate.
Could be theft. Could be concern for the well-being of their family. Could be simply having the financial wherewithal to do so and seeing this as a good time. We don't know, do we?

Will HTS need to "disarm these opposing rebel groups"? Might diplomacy bring them to an understanding? Listen to Julani's words below.

You said Julani (Sharaa) was on the "terror most wanted list". I said the bounty was removed. And if I'm looking at the right list at the FBI website, he is not on it. That's all this exchange was. And you respond with a slight about diplomacy.

How long should Julani get to "demonstrate his true intentions"? Is he not doing that with each passing day? Let's judge him on his actions. He's saying all the right things and it's what the world has to work with.

Syria’s al-Sharaa begins building new administration

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Will HTS need to "disarm these opposing rebel groups"? Might diplomacy bring them to an understanding? Listen to Julani's words below.

You said Julani (Sharaa) was on the "terror most wanted list". I said the bounty was removed. And if I'm looking at the right list at the FBI website, he is not on it. That's all this exchange was. And you respond with a slight about diplomacy.

How long should Julani get to "demonstrate his true intentions"? Is he not doing that with each passing day? Let's judge him on his actions. He's saying all the right things and it's what the world has to work with.

Syria’s al-Sharaa begins building new administration

This is a massive complicated situation and is highly volatile. The uncertainty is definitely leading certain actions from multiple parties (Syrian, Turkish, American, and Israeli). There were X amount of unsecured resources and Y number of varying radical organizations (of which have a long history of not getting along with each other... forget Israel!). With no policing or intelligence, stuff is happening that several parties are not in the know of. This creates anxiety over what may or may not be occurring.

Multiple nations are enacting actions in Syria that work to their self-interests... much like Julani likely is. The US is taking out terrorists, munitions, Iranian assets. Turkey is pushing to create a buffer between them and the Kurds. Israel is likely seeking more distance from unknown threats. I doubt very much Israel wants Syria, there is no way they could possibly govern it! There are issues with securing the unsecured (generally destroying the unsecured) as well as territory and boundaries that no longer exist under a pre-existing understanding.

I can't speak to how moral or justified Netanyahu's actions are currently in Israel, but I sure can understand the anxiety and uncertainty, both of the new "government" and void space outside of their control.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'd like to know where you get your intel from on these "tonnes of rebel groups armed to the teeth". Power vacuum? That in my mind's eye would indicate the absence of government in Syria. This is not the case.

The news

HTS controls a handful of major cities. The fact that they have no credible opposition is a world apart from controlling the country

Indeed. The fact that the West is rushing to kind of play nice is an indication they'd rather have him in charge of Syria than have no one in charge of Syria. In fact, they might say, 'control what you can. please be nice, but we can live otherwise, just as long as you let us manage affairs in the uncontrolled parts as we please. also don't fuck with Israel'.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I'd like to know where you get your intel from on these "tonnes of rebel groups armed to the teeth". Power vacuum? That in my mind's eye would indicate the absence of government in Syria. This is not the case.

The news

HTS controls a handful of major cities. The fact that they have no credible opposition is a world apart from controlling the country

Indeed. The fact that the West is rushing to kind of play nice is an indication they'd rather have him in charge of Syria than have no one in charge of Syria. In fact, they might say, 'control what you can. please be nice, but we can live otherwise, just as long as you let us manage affairs in the uncontrolled parts as we please. also don't fuck with Israel'.

They are going to fuck with Israel. HTS are jihadis. The question is how much

The west are doing diplomacy. They are giving Jolani the benefit of the doubt. But Jolani is a jihadi. His powerbase are jihadis. If he starts being too sensible he'll face revolts.

Anyway. Its Jolanis next move. We'll see

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They were also invited into the Golan heights by the Druze. Who somehow prefer the Israeli rule of law, to being under the thumb of another dictatorship. Even though the Druze are Muslim

My understanding is both the Sunni and Shia regard them as heretics. Israel isn't going to attack them for being Muslim, the big groups very well might attack them for being the wrong flavor of Muslim.

 

[Gospel]

The claim that Syria is a lawless no man's land is nothing more than a flimsy pretext from one contributor to justify Israel's actions, with no regard for whether these actions actually achieve their supposed goals of security and stability. It's clear that, for this individual, Israel's actions are beyond reproach no matter the context, once we acknowledge this unwavering bias, we can move past the distractions and focus on more productive and substantive discussions.

With that said, I believe the presence of UN forces in buffer zones should be reinforced. Israel, Syria, and international stakeholders should commit to respecting the UN's role in maintaining neutrality in contested areas.

Engage the Assad government to negotiate a roadmap for political stabilization, build confidence with rebel groups like HTS to explore pathways for disarmament and reintegration, and prioritize the voices and needs of civilians and local organizations in peace efforts. Despite what another contributor claims, that I hold the opposite view: violence is to be expected. There are extreme elements for whom nothing less than the death of their enemies is acceptable. Nothing is easy.

Israel’s security concerns should be addressed without permanent military occupation. I believe a phased approach where joint Syrian-UN forces maintain order in areas vacated by Israeli troops might work. Note that I am not presuming that Israel should leave before their concerns are addressed nor am I presuming that Israel should be there to begin with.


That's just my opinion.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The claim that Syria is a lawless no man's land is nothing more than a flimsy pretext from one contributor to justify Israel's actions, with no regard for whether these actions actually achieve their supposed goals of security and stability.

It can be a flimsy justification, but I don't think it is a flimsy pretext. Syria is currently a lesser regulated nation than it was a few months ago.

It's clear that, for this individual, Israel's actions are beyond reproach no matter the context, once we acknowledge this unwavering bias, we can move past the distractions and focus on more productive and substantive discussions.

With that said, I believe the presence of UN forces in buffer zones should be reinforced. Israel, Syria, and international stakeholders should commit to respecting the UN's role in maintaining neutrality in contested areas.

Engage the Assad government to negotiate a roadmap for political stabilization, build confidence with rebel groups like HTS to explore pathways for disarmament and reintegration, and prioritize the voices and needs of civilians and local organizations in peace efforts.

I feel like you brought your tv to Europe and holding the plug at the wall thinking, 'we can will this to work'.

Right now, the US and Europe do appear to be trying to get some semblance of a government, no matter how weak. We don't want a recurrence of another Iraq.

Despite what another contributor claims, that I hold the opposite view: violence is to be expected. There are extreme elements for whom nothing less than the death of their enemies is acceptable. Nothing is easy.

Israel’s security concerns should be addressed without permanent military occupation. I believe a phased approach where joint Syrian-UN forces maintain order in areas vacated by Israeli troops might work. Note that I am not presuming that Israel should leave before their concerns are addressed nor am I presuming that Israel should be there to begin with.

Certainly, the least amount of violence should be the goal. Israel, US, Turkey are all enacting military actions that they deemed based in their best interests. I wouldn't expect Israel to occupy too much territory in Syria, if any... because they don't want to be increasing the number of non-Israelis living in Israel.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Syrian Jews can finally visit one of the oldest synagogues in the world

Syria's historic Jobar synagogue is safe to visit after years of war, revealing looting and heavy damage.

www.jpost.com

Maysaa Sabrine becomes first woman to lead Syria’s central bank

Sabrine has become the first female governor of the Syrian central bank in its more than 70-year history.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[TV and credit cards]

The claim that Syria is a lawless no man's land is nothing more than a flimsy pretext from one contributor to justify Israel's actions, with no regard for whether these actions actually achieve their supposed goals of security and stability. It's clear that, for this individual, Israel's actions are beyond reproach no matter the context, once we acknowledge this unwavering bias, we can move past the distractions and focus on more productive and substantive discussions.

With that said, I believe the presence of UN forces in buffer zones should be reinforced. Israel, Syria, and international stakeholders should commit to respecting the UN's role in maintaining neutrality in contested areas.

Engage the Assad government to negotiate a roadmap for political stabilization, build confidence with rebel groups like HTS to explore pathways for disarmament and reintegration, and prioritize the voices and needs of civilians and local organizations in peace efforts. Despite what another contributor claims, that I hold the opposite view: violence is to be expected. There are extreme elements for whom nothing less than the death of their enemies is acceptable. Nothing is easy.

Israel’s security concerns should be addressed without permanent military occupation. I believe a phased approach where joint Syrian-UN forces maintain order in areas vacated by Israeli troops might work. Note that I am not presuming that Israel should leave before their concerns are addressed nor am I presuming that Israel should be there to begin with.


That's just my opinion.

And we cannot sit on our hands when it comes to providing funds at the earliest possible time to a Syrian government determined to move toward democracy. If we don't provide this funding, Iran and Russia will.

I wonder how long until Israel's concerns are fully addressed and they push back to their illegally occupied Golan Heights? The twelfth of never?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The claim that Syria is a lawless no man's land is nothing more than a flimsy pretext from one contributor to justify Israel's actions, with no regard for whether these actions actually achieve their supposed goals of security and stability. It's clear that, for this individual, Israel's actions are beyond reproach no matter the context, once we acknowledge this unwavering bias, we can move past the distractions and focus on more productive and substantive discussions.

With that said, I believe the presence of UN forces in buffer zones should be reinforced. Israel, Syria, and international stakeholders should commit to respecting the UN's role in maintaining neutrality in contested areas.

Engage the Assad government to negotiate a roadmap for political stabilization, build confidence with rebel groups like HTS to explore pathways for disarmament and reintegration, and prioritize the voices and needs of civilians and local organizations in peace efforts. Despite what another contributor claims, that I hold the opposite view: violence is to be expected. There are extreme elements for whom nothing less than the death of their enemies is acceptable. Nothing is easy.

Israel’s security concerns should be addressed without permanent military occupation. I believe a phased approach where joint Syrian-UN forces maintain order in areas vacated by Israeli troops might work. Note that I am not presuming that Israel should leave before their concerns are addressed nor am I presuming that Israel should be there to begin with.


That's just my opinion.

There was a security agreement about keeping the terrorists out of the area. When Assad fell the Syrian forces basically dissolved--Syria was completely unable to carry out their side of the agreement.

But UN forces? Don't expect that to work. Look at what UNIFIL has "accomplished" in Lebanon. Again and again they report major violations and the reports are promptly trash-canned, so long as Hezbollah maintains a veneer of deniability they operate effectively unimpeded. The only thing UNIFIL actually accomplishes is being human shields for Hezbollah.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Engage the Assad government to negotiate a roadmap for political stabilization, build confidence with rebel groups like HTS to explore pathways for disarmament and reintegration, and prioritize the voices and needs of civilians and local organizations in peace efforts.

I feel like you brought your tv to Europe and holding the plug at the wall thinking, 'we can will this to work'.

It's same fallacy as always--faith that there is a good answer if people would just look hard enough.

Right now, the US and Europe do appear to be trying to get some semblance of a government, no matter how weak. We don't want a recurrence of another Iraq.

Iraq wasn't due to a lack of government, but rather a deliberate action by Iran.

Certainly, the least amount of violence should be the goal. Israel, US, Turkey are all enacting military actions that they deemed based in their best interests. I wouldn't expect Israel to occupy too much territory in Syria, if any... because they don't want to be increasing the number of non-Israelis living in Israel.

Exactly. I see no reason to expect any action beyond those mountains. They want to deny that piece of high ground to any opponent, quite understandable given 1967.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

IDF confirms strike in southern Syria, said it targeted weapons convoy near buffer zone

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

According to Syrian media, the strike killed the mayor of Ghadir al-Bustan, the village where the strike took place, along with several military officers from the new Syrian government.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

IDF confirms strike in southern Syria, said it targeted weapons convoy near buffer zone

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

According to Syrian media, the strike killed the mayor of Ghadir al-Bustan, the village where the strike took place, along with several military officers from the new Syrian government.

Since it should be quite clear which direction they are moving I doubt Syria is telling the truth.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

IDF confirms strike in southern Syria, said it targeted weapons convoy near buffer zone

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

According to Syrian media, the strike killed the mayor of Ghadir al-Bustan, the village where the strike took place, along with several military officers from the new Syrian government.

Since it should be quite clear which direction they are moving I doubt Syria is telling the truth.

The IDF isn't denying it. They are saying shots were fired and not reporting one way or another if there were casualties.

Pressed whether the incidents were the same incident and whether any Syrians were killed, an IDF source merely referred back to the public IDF statement, leaving it unclear whether the IDF maintains no one was killed or whether the IDF is trying to keep its head down given the sensitivity of killing Syrians in their own country and who are not affiliated with the Assad regime or Iran.

Israeli strike kills three, including Golan border village leader - report

Three Syrians, including a village leader, were reportedly killed near the Israeli-Syrian border. The IDF confirmed firing warning shots in the area but did not address casualties.

www.jpost.com

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Engage the Assad government to negotiate a roadmap for political stabilization, build confidence with rebel groups like HTS to explore pathways for disarmament and reintegration, and prioritize the voices and needs of civilians and local organizations in peace efforts.

I feel like you brought your tv to Europe and holding the plug at the wall thinking, 'we can will this to work'.

It's same fallacy as always--faith that there is a good answer if people would just look hard enough.

Egypt and Jordan... *end of the conversation to suggest it isn't possible*

Right now, the US and Europe do appear to be trying to get some semblance of a government, no matter how weak. We don't want a recurrence of another Iraq.

Iraq wasn't due to a lack of government, but rather a deliberate action by Iran.

There were several issues in Iraq, no governance, no control, Iran, ISIS, localized sectarian issues.

Certainly, the least amount of violence should be the goal. Israel, US, Turkey are all enacting military actions that they deemed based in their best interests. I wouldn't expect Israel to occupy too much territory in Syria, if any... because they don't want to be increasing the number of non-Israelis living in Israel.

Exactly. I see no reason to expect any action beyond those mountains. They want to deny that piece of high ground to any opponent, quite understandable given 1967.

Nice to see you not classify me an anti-Semite because you agree with something I say.

 

[aupmanyav]

OP quote:
The UN has called on Israel to withdraw from the buffer zone, which sits between Syria and the Israeli-occupied area.
The UN secretary general, António Guterres, said he was “deeply concerned by the recent and extensive violations of Syria’s sovereignty and territorial integrity”.
France, Germany and Spain have also called on Israel to withdraw from the demilitarised zone.
The UN has said Israel is in violation of a 1974 disengagement agreement between Israel and Syria that established the buffer zone. Israel has said the 1974 disengagement agreement “collapsed” with the fall of the Assad regime government.

SenorAntónio Guterres, does Israel care about that? Other people have said that out of necessity. Perhaps there was an arms consignment.