Progressiveness Gone Wild

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/31/business/ladies-night-lawsuit-small-business/index.html

Historically, “Ladies’ Nights” have been great for business.

The discounted drinks or meals tend to draw a large crowd of women, which in turn tends to draw more men — which then leads to packed bars and increased sales for the business.

But a family-run restaurant in the San Francisco Bay Area is shutting down this week because it can’t afford to operate after it settled a “Ladies’ Night” discrimination lawsuit, CNN affiliate KGO reported last week. John Marquez, the chef and owner of Lima Restaurant in Concord, told the outlet that it hasn’t been able to bounce back after settling a lawsuit over a promotion that discounted drinks for women.

It’s not the first small business to be sued over a Ladies’ Night promotion due to technicalities in discrimination laws in certain states. The Unruh Civil Rights Act, a California law that dates back to 1959, says businesses can’t discriminate against religion, race and gender. A slew of lawsuits have since followed, and that has meant a sharp drop in the promotion.

In the past a California food truck business selling Mexican food was hounded out of business for 'cultural appropriation' by activists.

I suppose then someone of Mexican descent can't sell Italian food, and someone of Chinese decent can't sell French food.

Progressives in the extreme are not much different than Christians on a moral crusade.

Is there evidence that it is progressives to blame? Indeed, the article states that the basis of the lawsuits is that it is "unfair to men" which is the call sign of MRA (Men's Right Association). Also, how are these law cases instigated? Don't you need to have standing? Unless the states themselves are bringing the cases, which still needs someone who is keen to do so.

 

[Derec]

I can’t believe the people who made these laws intended them to apply to things like “Ladies’ Night” promotions.

I think the progressives that wrote those laws intended to have them only apply to things where women are disadvantaged, not where women are advantaged. That is the essence of fauxgressive/feminist politics after all.

 

[pood]

Considering that women are still usually paid a bit less compared to men, often even when doing the same job,

Women do not get paid less for the same job, when correcting for confounders such as hours worked or experience. That is a feminist canard that is unfortunately still explicitly believed.

Women are paid less than men.

 

[Derec]

From the article:

Earlier this year in California, the minor-league baseball team Fresno Grizzlies was sued over a promotional event for women.
But while the law was created to counter discrimination, the intentions of those who file such lawsuits have come under scrutiny, with some calling them opportunistic and exploitative. San Diego lawyer Alfred Rava has filed hundreds of lawsuits across California against women’s organizations and women-only events, from the Grizzlies’ promotion to female-led startups to Mother’s Day freebies, claiming they’re unfair to men.

Fresno Grizzlies having a promotional event for women is indeed gender discrimination. It is sexist to say that discrimination only matters when it discriminates against women. Same goes for women-only events, or giving preferential treatment to women-led businesses.

 

[pood]

From the article:

Earlier this year in California, the minor-league baseball team Fresno Grizzlies was sued over a promotional event for women.
But while the law was created to counter discrimination, the intentions of those who file such lawsuits have come under scrutiny, with some calling them opportunistic and exploitative. San Diego lawyer Alfred Rava has filed hundreds of lawsuits across California against women’s organizations and women-only events, from the Grizzlies’ promotion to female-led startups to Mother’s Day freebies, claiming they’re unfair to men.

Fresno Grizzlies having a promotional event for women is indeed gender discrimination. It is sexist to say that discrimination only matters when it discriminates against women. Same goes for women-only events, or giving preferential treatment to women-led businesses.

Instead of fretting over trivial nonsense like this, maybe you ought to do your homework on the persistent and actual gender pay gap you deny exists.

 

[Derec]

Women are paid less than men.

A wikipedia article that itself cites an opinion piece by Janet Yellen from 2020 that does not source her claims. And even so, she uses weasel-words like "similar occupations", i.e. not same, and "appear nearly identical in background and experience". No sources, no explanation how similar occupations and backgrounds/experience are considered.
That's because Janet Yellen, just like you, is pushing a political, feminist point of view.

 

[Derec]

Instead of fretting over trivial nonsense like this,

I did not start this thread. But for the record, you seem to think blatant gender discrimination is ok as long as it benefits women, right?

maybe you ought to do your homework on the persistent and actual gender pay gap you deny exists.

This piece does not even attempt to control for actual job worked, or hours, or experience. The author is now working for a Canadian left-wing think tank.

 

[Swammerdami]

I'll not be surprised to be accused of right-wing ideas for this post. So let me add fuel to the fire. --
There is a non-zero difference between the sexes. In some respects, a female chimpanzee has more in common with a female bonobo than it has with a male chimp. The post-rational "wokeism" that insists on treating males and females identically can become a hindrance.

Humans are not chimps or bonobos.

Anyway, I have no idea what “post-rational ‘wokeism’” is or aware that anyone argues that men and woman are identical, except of course that they should have identical rights under the law, as should everyone.

Should bars be permitted to offer discounts to women?

 

[laughing dog]

Women are paid less than men.

A wikipedia article that itself cites an opinion piece by Janet Yellen from 2020 that does not source her claims. And even so, she uses weasel-words like "similar occupations", i.e. not same, and "appear nearly identical in background and experience". No sources, no explanation how similar occupations and backgrounds/experience are considered.
That's because Janet Yellen, just like you, is pushing a political, feminist point of view.

The degree of gender discrimination in compensation is disputed but the evidence that women have traditionally under-payed in many occupations is well documented and understood. The factors involved are complex and consensus on the appropriate methods to address any compensation differentials has yet to be reached. But it is absurd to claim that observing a fact is political or feminist view. Such a claim smacks of insanity or misogyny.

 

[Swammerdami]

I think many low-income families have had such experiences with their relatives, and are well aware of the problem I just described. They would be pleased by politicians who work to alleviate such inequities.

What you describe here is the motivation behind the "no bail" legislation in several states.
Unfortunately, but hardly surprisingly, these so-called "bail reforms" have been abused by criminals who get arrested for "no bail" crimes over and over again but are always release back into the community.

In your black-or-white caricature of the world if "no bail" is granted to a suspect who has never been arrested then "progressives" think it must be granted to to a suspect no matter how many times he has been arrested or convicted, right?

And the government funding needed to actually present facts to a jury is unavailable because scarce legal resources are better spent for defendant's attorneys in civil actions; did I guess that right too?

 

[Swammerdami]

From what I recall, the men seemed to love that the women were getting cheap drinks.

Presumably the guys good-looking enough to pick up women at bars would. The policy of charging women's drinks less is still sexist though.

I thought part of the motive for cheap drinks was that the intoxicated women wouldn't notice you were unattractive.

Or, it could be incels who resent not getting laid, so they take it out on women getting free or cheap drinks.

Another cheap insult. You are on a roll today.

The term "incel" wasn't yet in vogue on my last visits to North America. But I'd have thought it peculiar for a man to complain about cheap drinks for ladies!

 

[TomC]

I thought part of the motive for cheap drinks was that the intoxicated women wouldn't notice you were unattractive.

Apparently a bunch of people think that. It's not true.

The one motivation is to make money.

Getting guys in to the bar makes money. Getting women in gets guys in. It's just not complicated. It's a promotion that works! I don't see why this is so complicated.

What I see is a bunch of grifty lawyers who don't have to consider the consequences of their actions because they are lawyers.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Should bars be permitted to offer discounts to women?

We let many types of establishments offer discounts to “senior citizens”. That is age discrimination.

So it seems to me that this issue about what is permissible discrimination is not as cut and dried from a conceptual point of view.

 

[pood]

I’d venture to say with a fair degree of certainty that all laws of this nature were passed to prevent establishments from refusing you goods and services because of your gender, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. etc., and NOT to bar occasional discount nights for the “ladies” or senior citizens. And yes, the warping of the law comes about, I’d say, because of grifting legal trolls and not the so-called “woke.”

 

[Jarhyn]

I'll not be surprised to be accused of right-wing ideas for this post. So let me add fuel to the fire. --
There is a non-zero difference between the sexes. In some respects, a female chimpanzee has more in common with a female bonobo than it has with a male chimp. The post-rational "wokeism" that insists on treating males and females identically can become a hindrance.

Humans are not chimps or bonobos.

Anyway, I have no idea what “post-rational ‘wokeism’” is or aware that anyone argues that men and woman are identical, except of course that they should have identical rights under the law, as should everyone.

Should bars be permitted to offer discounts to women?

Should bars be permitted to offer discounts to atheists? Or Christians?

 

[scombrid]

Hah. Derek sure helped Stevebnk show me how the progressives ran amok here.

Of course my wife and I sure could have used some of the free female contraceptives before I got a vasectomy.

 

[pood]

I'll not be surprised to be accused of right-wing ideas for this post. So let me add fuel to the fire. --
There is a non-zero difference between the sexes. In some respects, a female chimpanzee has more in common with a female bonobo than it has with a male chimp. The post-rational "wokeism" that insists on treating males and females identically can become a hindrance.

Humans are not chimps or bonobos.

Anyway, I have no idea what “post-rational ‘wokeism’” is or aware that anyone argues that men and woman are identical, except of course that they should have identical rights under the law, as should everyone.

Should bars be permitted to offer discounts to women?

Should bars be permitted to offer discounts to atheists? Or Christians?

Should restaurants and bookstores and other establishments be permitted to offer discounts to seniors, to students, and to health-care workers? And I know places in NYC that do that all the time, not just once in a while.

I think this is much ado about nothing. All civil rights laws were intended to end systematic discrimination against specific categories of people, not to govern discount promotion nights or certain courtesy discounts.

This is what people are worrying about on the eve of the new MAGGOT takeover?

 

[southernhybrid]

Considering that women are still usually paid a bit less compared to men, often even when doing the same job,

Women do not get paid less for the same job, when correcting for confounders such as hours worked or experience. That is a feminist canard that is unfortunately still explicitly believed.

Women are paid less than men.

Thank you for the link. I know it's often true in nursing, that women are paid less than men in the same jobs.

 

[Elixir]

It's even less than less pay, or even more inequitable when corrected for confounders such as family responsibilities, childcare, shopping, laundry, housecleaning and other frequently non-optional additions to professional careers that routinely fall disproportionately to the female parent.

 

[pood]

Considering that women are still usually paid a bit less compared to men, often even when doing the same job,

Women do not get paid less for the same job, when correcting for confounders such as hours worked or experience. That is a feminist canard that is unfortunately still explicitly believed.

Women are paid less than men.

Thank you for the link. I know it's often true in nursing, that women are paid less than men in the same jobs.

You can search for all this on the internet and discover tons of documentation about the persistent wage gap between men and women. But Derec, who could find this stuff just as easily as anyone else, blandly struts in here and just asserts that no such gap exists. It’s really pitiful.