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What the Bible says about: The End of the World

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A Response To The Skeptic's Annotated Bible: What The Bible Says About The End Of The World

The SAB indicates that, according to the Bible, the end would come within the lifetime of Jesus' listeners. I will demonstrate why this is not the case by explaining the verses they use to conclude this. They mistake the transfiguration, the destruction of Jerusalem, Jesus being at the right hand of power, and John's Revelation at Patmos.

Matthew 16:28 - Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (Also see Mark 9:1; Luke 9:27)

The Interpreter's Bible says: "The prediction was not fulfilled, and later Christians found it necessary to explain that it was metaphorical."

What believers and skeptics alike seem to have glossed over is the fact that in the very next verse Matthew reveals that just 6 days later this prophecy was fulfilled. Peter, James and John witnessed the transfiguration. (Matthew 17:1-2; Luke 9:27-36; 2 Peter 1:16-18)

Matthew 23:36 - Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (Also see Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 21:32)

All of the above verses differ from the verses given in consideration of Matthew 16:28. British scholar G. R. Beasley-Murray: "The phrase 'this generation' should cause no difficulty for interpreters. While admittedly genea in earlier Greek meant birth, progeny, and so race, . . . in the [Greek Septuagint] it most frequently translated the Hebrew term dor, meaning age, age of humankind, or generation in the sense of contemporaries. . . . In sayings attributed to Jesus the term appears to have a twofold connotation: on the one hand it always signifies his contemporaries, and on the other hand it always carries an implicit criticism."

So Jesus could have been directing that statement to the Jewish opposition there around him at that time, who, within a generation would see the destruction of Jerusalem in 66 - 70 CE by Titus, the son of Emperor Vespasian where 1,100,000 Jews died and 97,000 were taken captive, most of whom died horrible deaths and the Christians who knew it would come were saved. (Matthew 24:16, 22) And Jesus may have been applying the same to those in opposition in the future as well.

Matthew 26:64 and Mark 14:62 are parallel accounts to one another and you won't have to wait or look far to see them fulfilled. Acts 7:55-56: "But he, being full of holy spirit gazed into heaven and caught sight of God's glory and of Jesus standing at God's right hand, and he said: "Look! I behold the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God's right hand." Also see Psalm 110:1; Luke 22:69; Ephesians 1:20; Colossians 3:1.

John 21:20-23 is somewhat interesting. Jesus may have been telling Peter that John would live longer than him, and in fact John would live 70 years, but also he might have been referring to the prophetic vision that John was given at the end of his life while in exile on the island of Patmos. As recorded in the book of Revelation John was transported to "the Lords day." (Revelation 1:1, 10; Revelation 22:20)

[SAB] - The end will come within the lifetime of the New Testament authors.

Response: Jesus taught his followers that no one, not even Jesus himself, knew the time of the end of the world. (Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32; Acts 1:7) It's important to note that Jehovah God doesn't see into the future like a crystal ball simply because the future doesn't exist. When God foretells something that means that either it is obvious to him, with a great deal more experience and resources than us, that something is going to happen or he is going to make sure it happens. What Jesus meant is that God will know when the time is right and act accordingly.

Also at this point some clarification should be made as to what exactly is the "end of the world." The Bible says that Earth was given to man for him to fill and subdue it, that the meek will inherit the earth and live forever upon it, and that it will last forever. (Genesis 1:28; Psalm 37:29; 115:16; Ecclesiastes 1:4) The end of the world is the end of the present system of things and all that involves. Of Satan's influence and sin, which, when concluding brings much destruction, but when ended, allows peace. Pretty much government, religion and commerce. Sin, death, sickness, greed, etc.

1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 7:29; Philippians 1:10 all convey the importance of the missionary work in the early stages of Christianity. They all had important work to do before the end of their lives. Nowhere in any of these passages is it conveyed that they expected the end of the system of things to occur during that time.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 is often used to support the rapture, but actually it is referring to some who were mourning the death of their fellow Christians. Paul was reminding them as well as faithful Christians in the future of the resurrection hope, some to heaven immediately upon death and some to paradise earth upon resurrection.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 refers to the presence of Jesus Christ. The Greek noun parousia is used. It means "being alongside." In his work on The Parousia, Israel P. Warren, D.D., wrote: "Had our translators done with this technical word 'parousia' as they did with 'baptisma,' - transferring it unchanged, - or if translated using its exact etymological equivalent, presence, and had it been well understood, as it then would have been, that there is no such thing as a 'Second Presence,' I believe that the entire doctrine would have been different from what it now is. The phrases, 'second advent,' and 'second coming,' would never have been heard of. The church would have been taught to speak of The Presence Of The Lord, as that from which its hopes were to be realized, whether in the near future or at the remotest period, - that under which the world was to be made new, a resurrection both spiritual and corporeal should be attained, and justice and everlasting awards administered."

The word occurs 24 times in the Christian Greek scripture: Matthew 24:3, 27, 37, 39; 1 Corinthians 15:23; 16:17; 2 Corinthians 7:6, 7; 10:10; Philippians 1:26; 2:12; 1 Thessalonians 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, 8, 9; James 5:7, 8; 2 Peter 1:16; 3:4, 12; 1 John 2:28.

Pareimi is a related verb with the similar meaning of being present. It also occurs 24 times in the Christian Greek scripture: Matthew 26:50; Luke 13:1; John 7:6; 11:28; Acts 10:21, 33; 12:20; 17:6; 24:19; Acts 12:20; 1 Corinthians 5:3, 3; 2 Corinthians 10:2, 11; 2 Corinthians 11:9; 13:2, 10; Galatians 4:18, 20; Colossians 1:6; Hebrews 12:11; 13:5; 2 Peter 1:9, 12; Revelation 17:8.

The Greek word, eleusis (Latin adventu), which conveys the physical act of coming is different and only occurs once in the Christian Greek scripture, at Acts 7:52. Paul was encouraging those with a heavenly hope to remain blameless until their death, or the conclusion of the system of things and the presence, not the physical presence, of Jesus Christ.

In discussing Hebrews 1:2; 9:26; 1 Peter 1:20; 4:7 it is somewhat difficult to stay on topic of the so called end of the world because the last days that Paul was referring to were not the last days of the present system of things, but rather the last days of the Jewish system of things. Jehovah had given the prophecy of those days 850 years earlier. (Joel 2:28-32; Acts 2:16-21; Hebrews 1:1-2) It was the end of God's favor upon the Jewish congregation and the beginning of his favor for the new Christian congregation.

1 John 2:18 refers to the end of the apostolic period. The work mentioned as important in the scriptures at the beginning of this article were near completion and would conclude upon the death of John shortly after he completed the writing of Revelation.

[SAB] - The end will come soon. (Within a couple thousand years or so)

Response: It is interesting that, as with the case of Philippians 4:5, the Lord that is being referred to isn't Jesus Christ but rather, Jehovah. Codex Sinaiticus, Greek, fourth century C.E., Codex Alexandrinus, Greek, fifth century C.E., Vatican ms 1209, Greek, fourth century C.E., Christian Greek Scriptures in 12 languages, including Hebrew, by Elias Hutter, Nuremberg, 1599, Christian Greek Scriptures, Hebrew, by William Robertson, London, 1661, and the Latin Vulgate, by Jerome, c. 400 C.E. (Iuxta Vulgatam Versionem) all read Jehovah.

James 5:7-8 is talking about the presence (parousia) mentioned earlier in this article.

At Hebrews 10:37 Paul quotes Habakkuk 2:2-3 from the Greek Septuagint, which reads "And the Lord answered [me] and said: Write a vision; write it distinctly in a book that the reader may trace these things [may run]; for the vision is for a time yet to come. But it will spring up at last and will not be vain. Though he may tarry, wait for him; for he will assuredly come and will not fail [and will not tarry]."

Revelation 1:1, 3; 3:11; 22:7, 12, 20 may undoubtedly amuse the skeptic, who, of course, is familiar with the Biblical fact that a thousand years are as a watch in the night to God (Psalm 90:4), but to the writers of the Bible, especially John when writing Revelation and who would die shortly afterward, the resurrection hope would follow sleep in death which would seem, upon that resurrection, as the same day as they died, though it actually had been thousands of years.​
 
The extensive logic required to make sense of the Bible is a waste of time. You have to do all sorts of personal interpretations that somehow only the writer seems to understand.
 
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Matthew 16:28 - Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (Also see Mark 9:1; Luke 9:27)

The Interpreter's Bible says: "The prediction was not fulfilled, and later Christians found it necessary to explain that it was metaphorical."

What believers and skeptics alike seem to have glossed over is the fact that in the very next verse Matthew reveals that just 6 days later this prophecy was fulfilled. Peter, James and John witnessed the transfiguration. (Matthew 17:1-2; Luke 9:27-36; 2 Peter 1:16-18)

Luke says 8 days. Does this bug you?
Also, if the prophecy refers to an event that is 6 (or 8) days later, then it's like saying, "Today is Sunday. The Son of Man is coming into his kingdom. That'll be on Saturday. Or Monday, depending. Some who are standing here will still be alive at that point." Kind of a silly tag-on.
 




Matthew 23:36 - Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (Also see Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 21:32)

All of the above verses differ from the verses given in consideration of Matthew 16:28. British scholar G. R. Beasley-Murray: "The phrase 'this generation' should cause no difficulty for interpreters. While admittedly genea in earlier Greek meant birth, progeny, and so race, . . . in the [Greek Septuagint] it most frequently translated the Hebrew term dor, meaning age, age of humankind, or generation in the sense of contemporaries. . . . In sayings attributed to Jesus the term appears to have a twofold connotation: on the one hand it always signifies his contemporaries, and on the other hand it always carries an implicit criticism."

So Jesus could have been directing that statement to the Jewish opposition there around him at that time, who, within a generation would see the destruction of Jerusalem in 66 - 70 CE by Titus, the son of Emperor Vespasian where 1,100,000 Jews died and 97,000 were taken captive, most of whom died horrible deaths and the Christians who knew it would come were saved. (Matthew 24:16, 22) And Jesus may have been applying the same to those in opposition in the future as well.

He tells the disciples that the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give "its" light, and the stars will fall from heaven (which doesn't make any sense, if you understand stars.) Some sort of sign of the Son of Man will appear "in the heavens", and the Son will be seen returning in glory. At MT 24:34, "This generation will not pass away till all these things take place." Does any of that -- the sun, moon stars, Son of Man in the sky -- match the events around the destruction of Jerusalem?
 
Luke says 8 days. Does this bug you?
Also, if the prophecy refers to an event that is 6 (or 8) days later, then it's like saying, "Today is Sunday. The Son of Man is coming into his kingdom. That'll be on Saturday. Or Monday, depending. Some who are standing here will still be alive at that point." Kind of a silly tag-on.

He tells the disciples that the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give "its" light, and the stars will fall from heaven (which doesn't make any sense, if you understand stars.) Some sort of sign of the Son of Man will appear "in the heavens", and the Son will be seen returning in glory. At MT 24:34, "This generation will not pass away till all these things take place." Does any of that -- the sun, moon stars, Son of Man in the sky -- match the events around the destruction of Jerusalem?

Yes. Daniel and Ezekiel used the exact same term to prophetically describe the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians. History has that in either 587 or 586 BCE. The term is symbolic, meaning new government, new people, new environment. The book of Revelation uses the term on a larger, global scale for the upcoming Armageddon. Similar to new heavens and new earth. It's talking about social and political upheaval. The war in heaven results in a new heaven, without Satan and demons, who were cast to earth. Armageddon (Har Megiddo) leads to a new earth. New government (God's), new people (God's) and new environment. Paradise reclaimed.
 
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The extensive logic required to make sense of the Bible is a waste of time. You have to do all sorts of personal interpretations that somehow only the writer seems to understand.

Jesus taught in parables for several reasons:
  1. To keep some people from understanding what he was teaching.
  2. To divide his listeners into two groups: his disciples, and everyone else.
  3. To make his teachings easy to understand and memorable.
  4. To reveal truths about the kingdom of God in a way that was less controversial or dangerous.
 
Eventually the Sun will run out of fuel for fusion. It will expand to engulf and incinerate the Earth. Long before that the water will evaporate and life as we know it will end.

Earth will become uninhabitable for life as we know it in about 1.3 billion years due to the Sun's increasing brightness and heat, leading to the evaporation of oceans and a runaway greenhouse effect, though the Sun won't engulf Earth for another 5-7 billion years.

Multiple scientific scenarios for 'end of the world' and life as we know it. Based on astronomical observations.


I go with modern scene, not 2500 year old words by unknown authors in a tribal superstitious culture.
 
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The extensive logic required to make sense of the Bible is a waste of time. You have to do all sorts of personal interpretations that somehow only the writer seems to understand.

Jesus taught in parables for several reasons:
  1. To keep some people from understanding what he was teaching.
  2. To divide his listeners into two groups: his disciples, and everyone else.
  3. To make his teachings easy to understand and memorable.
  4. To reveal truths about the kingdom of God in a way that was less controversial or dangerous.
1 (plus also 2) and 3 seem incompatible with each other.
 
The idea was to make the stories themselves as widely remembered as possible, but deep enough that only the wise or blessed would really understand them.
 
DLH is inventing ethology right before our eyes. Jesus did it because......

I used to have a book on Tibetan and a book on Indianian traditional stories, IOW parables.

Etymology. The word parable comes from the Greek παραβολή (parabolē), literally "throwing" (bolē) "alongside" (para-), by extension meaning "comparison, illustration, analogy." It was the name given by Greek rhetoricians to an illustration in the form of a brief fictional narrative.

A spiritual puzzle for DLH, a Zen koan. Meant to teach a spiritual truth.

"What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

From Lao Tzu "Those who know do not speak, those that speak do not know;'. Preceded Jesus by about 500 yeras.

It implies that those who truly possess deep knowledge and understanding are humble and introspective, refraining from boasting or imposing their ideas upon others. On the other hand, those who are constantly speaking and asserting their knowledge may lack a genuine understanding of the subject matter.Jun 12, 2023

There are thousands of years of pearls of wisdom and insight into us humans from across all cultu8res..

The bible in comparison is is kind of crude. It is a mish mash of Jewish history and mythology

It is called a book but that is a is a misnomer. The bible is not a coherent narrative.
 
The idea was to make the stories themselves as widely remembered as possible, but deep enough that only the wise or blessed would really understand them.

In some ancient (illiterate) societies (the Celts MIGHT be an example?) only trained priests were permitted to sing the sacred songs or to recite the memory chants. This was to prevent the memorized verses from being corrupted.
 
There's that. But also, in most preliterate societies, genre is no less important than it is now. The fireside stories you tell in the winter about explojts of past heroes or moral fables told offhand to children are different in nature and performative context from sacred myths, legends, and proverbs that one is expected to memorize word for word and repeat only in certain special circumstances. And the latter often have multiple layers of depth. There's a way to take most parables/koans/etc literally and simplistically, and most people will prefer to. But for those who ponder things and meditate on their meaning, they are deep pools that one never tires of considering. If this Jesus really was the singular author of most of his sayings, he really was a remarkable thinker, as a great many of his stories gave that quality of mythic consideration.
 
The extensive logic required to make sense of the Bible is a waste of time. You have to do all sorts of personal interpretations that somehow only the writer seems to understand.

Jesus taught in parables for several reasons:
  1. To keep some people from understanding what he was teaching.
  2. To divide his listeners into two groups: his disciples, and everyone else.
  3. To make his teachings easy to understand and memorable.
  4. To reveal truths about the kingdom of God in a way that was less controversial or dangerous.
1 (plus also 2) and 3 seem incompatible with each other.
Very true.

But this is not a parable:

Matthew 16:28 - Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (Also see Mark 9:1; Luke 9:27)

It’s an explicit prediction of the coming of Jesus. The logical legerdemain of the op in trying to overcome the obvious is bizarre. It’s worrying about Greek definitions of words when these people spoke Aramaic.

Who gives a shit?

Let’s just take it at face value. It didn’t fucking happen because it’s a fucking myth. It’s one of many many predictions I. The Bible that are utter nonsense. Just like the numerical predictions in the Book of Daniel’s that I mentioned in another post. You basically have to rewrite history to try and fit them into the narrative you want. And even then they don’t make accurate predictions. Why? Because they’re just bullshit myths.

The real mystery is why so many people go to such absurd lengths to try and interpret these things. Give it up!
 
Another mystery is the point to this extensive series of threads. He seems to have a church of one going -- and he's promoting it on a free thought website for some reason. There's got to be a payoff in that, somewhere. Perhaps the posture of being a ridiculed savant who has solved the riddles in the ancient texts, but who, like you-know-who, is unappreciated in his own hometown. He has such a thing going with Jehovah, which is the same as an imaginary friend, but he can tell you quite a few things about the scope of powers of this intangible being (I guess, for one thing, his Jehovah cannot foretell future events.)
So...thread after thread of what looks like dense scrapbooking, headlined with horrible art that would've looked cool on Yes albums 52 years ago.
I guess it could be worse. He could be on a Ron Wyatt kick.
 
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Luke says 8 days. Does this bug you?
Also, if the prophecy refers to an event that is 6 (or 8) days later, then it's like saying, "Today is Sunday. The Son of Man is coming into his kingdom. That'll be on Saturday. Or Monday, depending. Some who are standing here will still be alive at that point." Kind of a silly tag-on.

He tells the disciples that the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give "its" light, and the stars will fall from heaven (which doesn't make any sense, if you understand stars.) Some sort of sign of the Son of Man will appear "in the heavens", and the Son will be seen returning in glory. At MT 24:34, "This generation will not pass away till all these things take place." Does any of that -- the sun, moon stars, Son of Man in the sky -- match the events around the destruction of Jerusalem?

Yes. Daniel and Ezekiel used the exact same term to prophetically describe the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians. History has that in either 587 or 586 BCE. The term is symbolic, meaning new government, new people, new environment. The book of Revelation uses the term on a larger, global scale for the upcoming Armageddon. Similar to new heavens and new earth. It's talking about social and political upheaval. The war in heaven results in a new heaven, without Satan and demons, who were cast to earth. Armageddon (Har Megiddo) leads to a new earth. New government (God's), new people (God's) and new environment. Paradise reclaimed.

If the described return of Jesus in power and glory was meant to be symbolism or metaphor, it would not be an event that "all the tribes on earth would see and mourn." Yet that is what we are told.
 
Um.. ok it hasn't happened. But folks ain't there supposed to be a sequence of events that happens before the return of Christ? For example...The Two Witnesses (some believe they're already here) ...the anti-christ is revealed before Jesus appears and so on.

Did anyone not notice the line where it says "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come...?"

Sounds to me this second coming is to be MUCH further in the future from what you (plural) erroneously think.
 
Leaner how do you possibly know when texts were actually written and how much of it is fiction?
 
Um.. ok it hasn't happened. But folks ain't there supposed to be a sequence of events that happens before the return of Christ? For example...The Two Witnesses (some believe they're already here) ...the anti-christ is revealed before Jesus appears and so on.

Did anyone not notice the line where it says "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come...?"

Sounds to me this second coming is to be MUCH further in the future from what you (plural) erroneously think.

We are given a clear timeframe for when the described event was supposed to happen - within the lifetime of those present at the time, that that generation shall not pass before witnessing the return of Jesus in power and glory, for all the tribes on earth to see and mourn, to gather the elect, to judge each man according to their deeds.

Obviously, none of this occurred within the given timeframe.
 
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