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Do Trumpers LIKE being lied to?

Elixir

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There is no way they don’t know he lies - in my opinion. But I’d love to hear from Swizzle, Vonse & Co about how it makes them feel to hear the below, then compare it to reality. Shrug? Any sense of betrayal? Inability to perceive that they’ve been deceived? He says one thing, does the opposite … The buffoonery is unmatched IME. Who believes this mobster?

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"Oh that's just Trump being Trump and exaggerating and being funny. The point he is making is the economy will be much better under his stewardship. Remember, we were better off 5 years ago (just before COVID). It will be like that.

As far as the tariffs go, he will negotiate some of them away and get us a fantastic deal. He is a master dealmaker. The ones that remain in place will be necessary to lead to a manufacturing renaissance to bring back tons of good paying jobs for the working man, and can also be used for future leverage against all those meanies that have been ripping us off. Don't worry about the stock market, that is just a bunch of richie riches crying that they will have to pay workers more and have lower profits as a result. The working man does not own many stocks. Also, the 'experts' who say these tariffs don't make sense and are bad for the economy are just a bunch of neoliberal fools that got us into this mess in the first place. Stop listening to those idiots, they are wrong."
 
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The man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. Or so I've heard somewhere.
 
T shirt: I'M VOTING FOR THE FELON.
Worn by a middle-aged woman at our public library last October.
I don't engage in discussion/debate with Trumpies -- there's too much anger in the air, and frankly, too much anger in me.
I do read comment sections that follow YouTube videos, and when I find high concentrations of pro-Trump comments, I'll read 15 or 20 of them, which is enough. They have been well-schooled by their hero. To them, the mainstream media comprise the liars. They trust nothing that isn't from Trump or Trump-endorsed.
That said -- I just don't understand the phenomenon. He's so blatantly false, crass, sadistic, and evil. There's not a whiff of charisma to him. He even looks unhygienic. He's so ludicrously obvious, he's like a Bond villain from around the time Roger Moore took over. Future historians will have a hell of a job cut out for them, to make this bizarre windbag into something explainable in human terms.
 
T shirt: I'M VOTING FOR THE FELON.
Worn by a middle-aged woman at our public library last October.
I don't engage in discussion/debate with Trumpies -- there's too much anger in the air, and frankly, too much anger in me.
I do read comment sections that follow YouTube videos, and when I find high concentrations of pro-Trump comments, I'll read 15 or 20 of them, which is enough. They have been well-schooled by their hero. To them, the mainstream media comprise the liars. They trust nothing that isn't from Trump or Trump-endorsed.
That said -- I just don't understand the phenomenon. He's so blatantly false, crass, sadistic, and evil. There's not a whiff of charisma to him. He even looks unhygienic. He's so ludicrously obvious, he's like a Bond villain from around the time Roger Moore took over. Future historians will have a hell of a job cut out for them, to make this bizarre windbag into something explainable in human terms.
The best I can explain it is a combination of fear and greviance. Fear of the immigrants. Fear of crime. Fear of socialism (from Democrats). Fear of economic and technological change. Fear of the woke and the transgenders. And grievance. The elites rob them and make fun of them. The elites think they know more than everyone else. The elites are evil and commit secret crimes and lie to us all while pretending to be moral, upright and good. They call us racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, deplorable. They force their morals onto the rest of us and then cancel our jobs or our speech when we don't comply. And then there are also the immigrants, who steal our jobs and tax money and rape our women and are trying to take over our country.

They think Trump feels the way they do and they think he will tackle all the problems they think are the most important. And they also get to live vicariously through him. He gets to say things they can't say without facing negative consequences. It's also so unfair when "the system" goes after him, so it gives pleasure to see him beat it like they wish they could beat it. They wish they had the power he has so it is gratifying to see him use it the way they would use it if they were in a similar positon. He is a guy they root for and become devoted to. Every criticizism of him is a criticism of them. Every nasty question from a journalist directed at him is a nasty question directed at them. They almost literally try to live through his shoes as he navigates what they see as an unfair system and yet still manages to win almost every time.
 
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they think he will tackle all the problems they think are the most important.
Why? Why do they think that? They have to know he lies to them virtually non-stop.
DON'T THEY?
They wish they had the power he has
I believe that's a factor - Trump as a proxy for exercising their own psychoses.
Every criticizism of him is a criticism of them.
NOT so sure about that.
Do they consider themselves liars, dishonest con artists, wannabe mob bosses... what?? I do think that in general they have very low self esteem. The bravado most of them flaunt is transparently superficial. But -
There is a very real sickness going around, manifesting itself as support for whatever this most damaged of humans says or does.
Are trumpsuckers going to go to their graves thinking he was their "retribution", and everything he fucked up only hurt other people? Even as they die drowning in their own phlegm in the next pandemic, in the parking lot of a hospital that is full-up?
 
they think he will tackle all the problems they think are the most important.
Why? Why do they think that? They have to know he lies to them virtually non-stop.
DON'T THEY?
They wish they had the power he has
I believe that's a factor - Trump as a proxy for exercising their own psychoses.
Every criticizism of him is a criticism of them.
NOT so sure about that.
Do they consider themselves liars, dishonest con artists, wannabe mob bosses... what?? I do think that in general they have very low self esteem. The bravado most of them flaunt is transparently superficial. But -
There is a very real sickness going around, manifesting itself as support for whatever this most damaged of humans says or does.
Are trumpsuckers going to go to their graves thinking he was their "retribution", and everything he fucked up only hurt other people? Even as they die drowning in their own phlegm in the next pandemic, in the parking lot of a hospital that is full-up?
I think it is because honesty doesn't really matter to them except as a talking point "gotcha", a key into an emotional lock against the opponent.

I really don't think that the truth matters at all to such people, or rather they have a distorted idea of what even has "truth value".

I think about this, probably more than I should, but it comes down to this concept in information science about "table vs function".

So, tables can be really useful, such as when you have a function but it's slow, and the table is fast; you just populate the table with "null" and then every time you miss on the table and read a null, you hit the function and send the result to the table.

It ends up being WAY faster, at the expense of WAY more memory being used (potentially infinite).

The problem is that tables can be wrong.

This fact ends up influencing all kinds of outcomes:

why is rote memorization worse than understanding, when done absent understanding? Tables can be wrong and memorization is table building.

Tables are often used when developing an understanding: comparing all the values so far in a line or graph arrangement can tell you the shape of a growth rate, for example, and then it's just a matter of seeing if there is a known curve that matches. This is seen in every process from biological to machine learning: one group first generating a table and the other trying to fit a curve to it, usually.

But some systems never actually gravitate towards curve matching... Some systems are built with the fundamental assumption that there is no curve to match against, no idea of truth; it's all just "tables" or mostly so.

This is itself an organizing principle and one every individual human varies on. I put myself out at the extremes of "curve fitting"; I have a sort of "table sense" within my own mind and when it goes off, I go on a tear and try to eliminate the table, or at least make a "closed" form, if possible.

But to that extent I would pose that such people as are on the extreme other end are akin to this concept of the "philosophical zombie". I'm a monist, apparently, so I don't think it's possible for consciousness to truly be absent anywhere or in anything... But I do think it can be very trivial. And for someone whose entire existence is based on doing whatever satisfies the condition no matter how absurd or ignorant they are of why, I think would fall into this "trivial" group, and it is this independence of function from any need for "truth" beyond "what works for me" that I find to ultimately be the, or at least a primary, driver of evil in the world.

It also drives a lot of conservatism: when your existence is built on a table of fixed responses, it's really hard to adjust to a world where the underlying functions have one of their weirder parameters get changed. Instead of just adding a parameter here and there to handle shifts, the whole table will have to be relearned.

So, it's no surprise to me when someone has a just-so table of concepts they use that divide the world into highschool-level buckets, and someone else comes along that reveals this structure to be incomplete and fragile, they would rather rage at the world that violates their expectations than accept that they were doing it wrong this whole time by wasting their brain on "tables" and stopping there.

To that extent, anything that validates the correctness of their table and plays to their expectations rather than introducing troublesome data and an expectation of "curve fitting" is going to be preferred.
 
they think he will tackle all the problems they think are the most important.
Why? Why do they think that? They have to know he lies to them virtually non-stop.
DON'T THEY?

Whatever one can say about Trump, it can't really be said he doesn't take action on the big issues he talks about repeatedly. He even goes to the extremes of violating the law and constitution to do so. Think of the cruel and lawless methods to close the border, detain immigrants, deport people. The result has been a dramatic reduction in attempts to enter the US. And they are taking just about every measure they can to increase deportations.

Similar with anti-DEI stuff. Banning transgender women in women's sports, extorting businesses and universities to end DEI policies, scrubbing the US government of all DEI.

Installing political lackeys in the federal bureauocracy to eliminate the "deep state". He talked about that endlessly and has made the most dramatic action on that front of any president in history.

And tariffs, he has talked endlessly about doing tariffs. And ending Ukraine support and embracing Russia.

For promises on his actions, he does not appear to be lying. He lies to deflect criticism, exaggerate problems, and exaggerate the effect of his solutions, but he doesn't seem to lie about actually doing the things he says he will do most of the time.

And it is all blended with a combination of misinformation on the nature of the problem and the positive effects of his solutions. They believe those lies to some extent.

They wish they had the power he has
I believe that's a factor - Trump as a proxy for exercising their own psychoses.
Every criticizism of him is a criticism of them.
NOT so sure about that.
Do they consider themselves liars, dishonest con artists, wannabe mob bosses... what?? I do think that in general they have very low self esteem. The bravado most of them flaunt is transparently superficial. But -
I think it is a result of their devotion to him, not that the criticisms apply to them directly. Like being fanatic about a sports team and then someone says their quarterback sucks. Even if true, they feel offended on the quarterbacks behalf. It's like that, but on steroids.


There is a very real sickness going around, manifesting itself as support for whatever this most damaged of humans says or does.
Are trumpsuckers going to go to their graves thinking he was their "retribution", and everything he fucked up only hurt other people? Even as they die drowning in their own phlegm in the next pandemic, in the parking lot of a hospital that is full-up?
 
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My favorite Trump lie is that his Tariffs are reciprocal! No they aren’t! Canada’s tariffs on American goods is 1.67 percent! Trump’s proposed tariff on Canada is 104%!
 
Whatever one can say about Trump, it can't really be said he doesn't take action on the big issues he talks about repeatedly. He even goes to the extremes of violating the law and constitution to do so.
He talked a lot about getting rid of ObamaCare, he talked about a great economy … sure, he follows through on threats of cruelty, but that’s about it.
 
Do Trumpers LIKE being lied to?

Yes. Everything MAGA is expressing buyers remorse about is stuff Trump explicitly campaigned on. I cannot think of anything more predictable than Trump's actions.

 
No, they don't like being lied to. That's why they voted for him in droves, apparently.
 
Whatever one can say about Trump, it can't really be said he doesn't take action on the big issues he talks about repeatedly. He even goes to the extremes of violating the law and constitution to do so.
He talked a lot about getting rid of ObamaCare, he talked about a great economy … sure, he follows through on threats of cruelty, but that’s about it.
He and the GOP congress tried to get rid of Obamacare but John McCain saved it. He didn't have GOP congress under his thumb on his first term. I guess what I would say as long as he does a geniune effort within his power to fulfill the promise, it isn't really a lie to his base. His base turned against John McCain due to his disloyalty.

His base also thinks his economy from 2017 to 2019 was good. He promised tax cuts and he did them.

It seems like when he promises something specific within his power, he generally follows through. Not talking about results "great economy, low crime", etc, those are almost always lies, but specific actions a president can take like tariffs, deportating immigrants, detaining immigrants, pardoning J6ers, gutting federal bureauocracy and installing sycophants, getting rid of DEI. He is doing it with such a ferver that he constantly breaks laws and violates the constitution in the process.
 
specific actions a president can take like tariffs, deportating immigrants, detaining immigrants, pardoning J6ers, gutting federal bureauocracy and installing sycophants, getting rid of DEI.
Other than the pardons, Congress has to be complicit to enable him to do those (mostly illegal) things. But they are, so far. So you’re right.
It will be interesting to find out whose fault it will be that there’s a depression, according to the regime.
 
I think it is because honesty doesn't really matter to them except as a talking point "gotcha", a key into an emotional lock against the opponent.

I really don't think that the truth matters at all to such people, or rather they have a distorted idea of what even has "truth value".

I think about this, probably more than I should, but it comes down to this concept in information science about "table vs function".
Disagree. It looks to me like they are working from a basis is that reality is what a sufficient number of people believe reality to be. It's not that they don't care, it's that they think reality will conform.
 
As much as the left likes being lied to. "Hillary Clinton and Kamela Harris are good candidates" might have been their biggest lies so far.

Harris definitely. Should have let Biden mutter and shuffle through the last election rather than blowing a billion dollars for that mess of a campaign.

The left is weak, their candidates suck and don't resonate with voters, their divided special interest platform drives moderates away, they've given up on the middle class, their party is fracturing grom within, etc.

Trump the loser beat the Bushs, Cheneys, McCains, Clintons, Bidens, and Obamas. The left is lying to themselves they have what it takes to win anything in the future. Their only hope is the current administration failing so badly they sneak back in charge.

My guess is the economy crumbles and the left does something stupid like running an all Trans ticket next time to highlight their party acomplishments. Then naval gaze in amazement after they lose again while hurtling insults at everyone that didn't vote for them and their enlightened positions on pronouns.

Politics has hit the special olympics stage. No matter who wins the race, they're all retarded.
 
I think many Trump supporters simply don't care that he lies to them, because he "stands" with them on social issues.
 
I have little idea what drives the MAGA voter other than race and misogyny and immigration. They want America to be whiter, women to be in the home, and all immigrants past me need to stay at home.

I was listening to a little AM Radio yesterday and they are going on about how we need to have more babies now, like they are the Catholic Church.
As much as the left likes being lied to. "Hillary Clinton and Kamela Harris are good candidates" might have been their biggest lies so far.
Hillary Clinton wasn't a bad candidate and the hindsight of 2024 implies she might not have made any mistakes in the Blue Wall other than choosing white bread as her running mate. The idea of Trump winning in 2016 was also quite laughable. No one has ever survived a campaign like his. Gary Hart didn't even make it to the primaries, where as Trump was grabbin' 'em. He also benefited from the coordinated Russia - Wikileaks effort to influence the election, as well as a few of Giuliani's buds at the FBI faking a Clinton Organization investigation.

VP Harris was the only option for candidate, based on what Biden kind of forced the Democrats into. There was no one else that could step in immediately. She also wasn't a bad candidate, she just had the same issue of the economy that Biden had, as any other Democrat would have had. Trump was the "change" candidate, Harris couldn't campaign on "change" nor would anyone believe the economy wasn't in a recession, that would have made her look "out of touch".
Harris definitely. Should have let Biden mutter and shuffle through the last election rather than blowing a billion dollars for that mess of a campaign.
Meanwhile in the alternate universe, IMGod is saying they should have gone with someone else. after Biden lost. ;)
The left is weak, their candidates suck and don't resonate with voters, their divided special interest platform drives moderates away, they've given up on the middle class, their party is fracturing grom within, etc.
The Democrats have candidates. 2020 was odd because Biden won... while Biden wasn't the favorite of anyone and didn't win until South Carolina. But he won the nomination and beat Trump. 2024 was off because Biden stayed too long and his debate performance was dreadful from a coherence state. There were almost no other options.
Trump the loser beat the Bushs, Cheneys, McCains, Clintons, Bidens, and Obamas. The left is lying to themselves they have what it takes to win anything in the future. Their only hope is the current administration failing so badly they sneak back in charge.
Worked in 2006/2008. Lots of people had to die first, and then the economy had to implode. Wish it didn't haven't to take that these days.
My guess is the economy crumbles and the left does something stupid like running an all Trans ticket next time to highlight their party acomplishments.
Now you are drinking from the Flavoraid there, believing the GOP bullshit. Trans rights was never that high in the Democrat platform or actions. And Trump said he wanted to protect Trans rights in the 2016 RNC convention (to a very muted audience reaction). The Democrats, via Schumer, managed to pass TWO reconciliation bills (never done before!) to fund a lot of things. What Biden sucked the most at, was telling people that he did anything!

Ultimately, the Democrats lost in 2024 because of inflation from the pandemic. The Democrats took the blame for it. Harris didn't lose in a landslide, the Democrats barely didn't win the house, the Democrats did fairly well in the very awful Senate races they were up against.
 
As much as the left likes being lied to. "Hillary Clinton and Kamela Harris are good candidates" might have been their biggest lies so far.

Harris definitely. Should have let Biden mutter and shuffle through the last election rather than blowing a billion dollars for that mess of a campaign.

The left is weak, their candidates suck and don't resonate with voters, their divided special interest platform drives moderates away, they've given up on the middle class, their party is fracturing grom within, etc.

Trump the loser beat the Bushs, Cheneys, McCains, Clintons, Bidens, and Obamas. The left is lying to themselves they have what it takes to win anything in the future. Their only hope is the current administration failing so badly they sneak back in charge.

My guess is the economy crumbles and the left does something stupid like running an all Trans ticket next time to highlight their party acomplishments. Then naval gaze in amazement after they lose again while hurtling insults at everyone that didn't vote for them and their enlightened positions on pronouns.

Politics has hit the special olympics stage. No matter who wins the race, they're all retarded.
The left didn't have any candidates in the POTUS election.Clinton and Harris were both centre-right candidates.
The US doesn't have a leftist party - there is a far-right party and a centre-right party. The left is weak because the right has control of the media, and whoever controls the media controls the message. Also because USA has a rigged voting system that favors the right.
Also the Democrats didn't stand on minority positions such as trans, that was media lying. Their major platform was achieving a strong economy, with the intent to continue making the economy strong. But when you have a candidate who can tell so many blatant lies and yet win, then that tells the world that the problem is with the American people and their weak media corrupted society.
 
Many Trump supporters understand exactly what sort of man Trump is, and admire him for that. They are proud that their man acts like a bigoted bully; they understand that bullies lie.
 
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