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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?
- Thread starter Harry Bosch
- Start date
laughing dog
Contributor
Trump is giving a lesson on how the West should not respond to the Russian aggression in Ukraine.
crazyfingers
Meow
Trump is an idiot. He's only just started to realize that Russia doesn't want a peace deal. That he would not accept a peace deal unless they are rewarded with territory that isn't Russian. Russia wants Crimea, which Russia stole in illegal war and against treaty that Russia actually agreed to. Trump the idiot says that Russia can keep Crimea, against international law. (Since whan has Trump cared about laws and treaties?)
Trump wants the war to stop at the current borders of control, giving Russia a "win". It's appeasement. Russia can't be appeased. They have demonstrated that appeasement doesn't work. (Not would it work for Trump. Trump will discard any treaty that doesn't give him an immediate and transient gain.
Trump having once accused Ukraine of starting this war is clearly stupid or without any integrity (No surprise there.
If Trump isn't a Russian tool he is certainly acting like one. The last person to be negotiating with Russia is Trump. Trump is too willing to trust the bloodthirsty Putin, who will go back in any agreement on a dime (as would Trump)
barbos
Contributor
Ukro-nazi say a lot of shit.
barbos
Contributor
Why would a side which is winning want to stop before goals were reached?
EU nazi did the same, they were against peace talks when they thought Ukraine was winning.
Well, it goes both ways. Not all russian land is liberated from ukro-nazi occupation, Even offcially russian ones are still under partial nazi occupation. And then there is land which is not yet officially russian (Odessa).
Having said that, Russia said if Ukraine agrees with the loss of these regions which are already russian and leave them then Russia would stop. It's an extremely generous offer if you ask me.
As for the EU, their plan is basically boils down to Russia's capitulation, which is ridiculous and shows who really does not want peace.
EU is in deep shit in this. Before cancelled negotiations in London they were sure that US would agree with their plan and were genuinely shocked with american plan which basically says "Crimea is Russia, everybody stops at the current line, sanctions are lifted"
EU leaders are truly deluded.
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Harry Bosch
Contributor
Why would any sane person trust Russia??!
barbos
Contributor
Because every sane person knows Russia can be trusted.
So the real question sane person has is why would he/she trust the West?
barbos
Contributor
The truth is, the real obstacle to peace is Elensky and his closest cirlce.
They convinced themselves that they are dead men if they decide to stop this war. Nazis would kill them all. Right now they are pretty safe and stealing western money, why change anything?
They convinced themselves that they are dead men if they decide to stop this war. Nazis would kill them all. Right now they are pretty safe and stealing western money, why change anything?
barbos
Contributor
Speaking of russian opposition. I honestly don't pay much attention to them. I mean I watch some of them from time to time but some, I only read about them without actually watching them at all.
Anyway, there is this guy named Kara-Murza and he was sentenced to very long time in Russia and then exchanged in prisoners exchange with US. I had not seen him talking in english or russian for that matter, until I came across his CNN interview after release where he talks about his imprisonment.
He talked some obvious BS about Putin and "regime" in Russia. But that was kinda expected, though for some reason I had been considering the guy on a saner part of the spectrum. But that was not what struck me the most. What struck me the most is a complete absence of ..... russian accent in his speech. He had perfect british variety of english. So I said to myself, that's weird and went to read wikipedia on the guy. The guy had quite a life. Special french school in Moscow, bunch of prominent ancestors on all sides of family during all historical periods (Before USSR, during USSR), emigraion to GB at 16. Anyway, my point is, virtually all russian so-called non-systemic "opposition" in Russia have links to the Western ...... three letter agencies I think.
Even Navalny with his fairly basic english graduated from "special" university in US where americans are NOT allowed to enroll.
Having said that, 25 years sentence he received seems to me unnecessary excessive.
But the guy is clearly crazy.
But what would US have done if they had a politician who had a russian citizenship, funding coming from Russia and running around causing troubles? ......... Oh wait, Maria Butina, and she was not even a politician and she was not even US citizen. Again, why was she sent to prison?
Anyway, there is this guy named Kara-Murza and he was sentenced to very long time in Russia and then exchanged in prisoners exchange with US. I had not seen him talking in english or russian for that matter, until I came across his CNN interview after release where he talks about his imprisonment.
He talked some obvious BS about Putin and "regime" in Russia. But that was kinda expected, though for some reason I had been considering the guy on a saner part of the spectrum. But that was not what struck me the most. What struck me the most is a complete absence of ..... russian accent in his speech. He had perfect british variety of english. So I said to myself, that's weird and went to read wikipedia on the guy. The guy had quite a life. Special french school in Moscow, bunch of prominent ancestors on all sides of family during all historical periods (Before USSR, during USSR), emigraion to GB at 16. Anyway, my point is, virtually all russian so-called non-systemic "opposition" in Russia have links to the Western ...... three letter agencies I think.
Even Navalny with his fairly basic english graduated from "special" university in US where americans are NOT allowed to enroll.
Having said that, 25 years sentence he received seems to me unnecessary excessive.
But the guy is clearly crazy.
But what would US have done if they had a politician who had a russian citizenship, funding coming from Russia and running around causing troubles? ......... Oh wait, Maria Butina, and she was not even a politician and she was not even US citizen. Again, why was she sent to prison?
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You can't be sane and trust Russia. That's an oxymoron.
barbos
Contributor
“It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.”
― Henry Kissinger
― Henry Kissinger
TV and credit cards
Contributor
Sanity - the ability to think and behave in a normal and rational manner.
In Russia - the ability to think and behave as you are told by your government.
In Russia - the ability to think and behave as you are told by your government.
barbos
Contributor
Speaking of which, the word is, EU critters want to replace their crazy bitch.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
The problem is that Putin wants more. If President Z accepts the peace terms now, Russia will reinvade again in 6 months. Read your own posts.
aupmanyav
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Harry Bosch
Contributor
Why do you think that Russia will stay on their side of any border. They do not respect borders or sovereignty.
barbos
Contributor
You are not making any sense.
Ukraine is losing NOW (!!!). They have nothing to lose by agreeing for peace. And can get time to prepare for another mythical invasion.
Problem is what I said it was - Elensky is afraid of nazis. The whole war started because he was afraid of them.
Having said that. Russian conditions include denazification. So they are unacceptable for ukro-nazis.
barbos
Contributor
Well, technically it was the guy just before Poroshenko who started the war, I forgot his name, interim president of Ukraine after nazi coup. But both Poroshenko and Elensky contributed greatly. Elensky himself was elected on the promise of stoping the war. But then nazis warned him in no uncertain terms that he would be a dead man if he tried that.
Elensky is alive as long as he does what nazis want, even though americans changed their mind somewhat.
barbos
Contributor
We have no respect for nazi scum first.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Russians define “denazification” as demilitarize so that we can conquer you in the future. No border country would accept these terms with Russia. Trump understands this now. The west needs to dramatically increase sanctions on Russia. We need to start telling any country trading with Russia or aiding Russia; if you work with Russia you will not get any trade either us. We need to starve the Russian war machine.