Legal definition of woman is based on biological sex, UK supreme court rules

[Politesse]

Pardon me, but your stance as a trans ideologist came through a lot better than your comedy.
Tom

You read what you want to.

 

[Politesse]

Whose acceptance is clearly conditional.

Does that feel comfortingly familiar to you?

 

[Politesse]

Where’s the humour?

You, claiming never to have so much as heard of two cultures with a tradition of trans men, when you live in one.

 

[TomC]

Where’s the humour?

You, claiming never to have so much as heard of two cultures with a tradition of trans men, when you live in one.

Is this another one of your "jokes"?
Tom

 

[Politesse]

Where’s the humour?

You, claiming never to have so much as heard of two cultures with a tradition of trans men, when you live in one.

Is this another one of your "jokes"?
Tom

What joke? There are definitely trans men in British culture, yes. Unequivocally. Otherwise the anti-trans lobby would have far less to lobby against.

 

[TomC]

Where’s the humour?

You, claiming never to have so much as heard of two cultures with a tradition of trans men, when you live in one.

Is this another one of your "jokes"?
Tom

What joke? There are definitely trans men in British culture, yes. Unequivocally. Otherwise the anti-trans lobby would have far less to lobby against.

That's not what you said.
Tom

 

[seanie]

What joke? There are definitely trans men in British culture, yes. Unequivocally. Otherwise the anti-trans lobby would have far less to lobby against.

Do you need the word “tradition” explained to you, too?

 

[Politesse]

What joke? There are definitely trans men in British culture, yes. Unequivocally. Otherwise the anti-trans lobby would have far less to lobby against.

Do you need the word “tradition” explained to you, too?

Oh? And what pray tell is British tradition?

What, for instance, do they have you read in school to learn about it?

Shakespeare, perhaps? His famous patron, who had the heart and stomach of a king? Spenser? Chaucer? Julian of Norwich? Other writers who wrote very famous stories of women passing as men?

You will insist of course, once challenged that these cases "do not not count", since you... don't want them to.

 

[TomC]

You will insist of course, once challenged

Your ability to read the minds of people that you disagree with unimpressive, to put it mildly.
Tom

 

[seanie]

“Passing”, not “being”.

 

[Politesse]

“Passing”, not “being”.

So your ideology forces you to read texts in a certain way, am I supposed to be impressed?

 

[seanie]

So your ideology forces you to read texts in a certain way, am I supposed to be impressed?

You used the word passing. That was your choice, not mine.

So what do you think about Iran?

A model of trans inclusivity?

 

[Politesse]

So your ideology forces you to read texts in a certain way, am I supposed to be impressed?

You used the word passing. That was your choice, not mine.

So what do you think about Iran?

A model of trans inclusivity?

I have no idea what you're even referring to with that one.

 

[seanie]

Other writers who wrote very famous stories of women passing as men?

So women then?

By your own description.

 

[seanie]

I have no idea what you're even referring to with that one.

You could’ve finished that sentence after the first four words.

 

[Politesse]

Other writers who wrote very famous stories of women passing as men?

So women then?

By your own description.

Yes. In Shakespeare, you have women dressing and (successfully) acting as men, taking on male names and accomplishing male roles. In short, "identifying as men". Which was your goal post. Do you need to shift it?

 

[seanie]

Well actually they had men, pretending to be women, pretending to be men.

Biological sex came with some restrictions in Shakespearian times.

Women weren’t allowed to be actors.

Regardless of how they identified.

 

[TomC]

Other writers who wrote very famous stories of women passing as men?

So women then?

By your own description.

Yes. In Shakespeare, you have women dressing and (successfully) acting as men, taking on male names and accomplishing male roles. In short, "identifying as men". Which was your goal post. Do you need to shift it?

How about we stop referring to old cultures, like Shakespearean England, as any sort of benchmark here in the 21st century?
Tom

ETA ~I'm pretty sure that they didn't have flush toilets, much less public restrooms. Or competitive sports leagues. Who cares about what people so or did in cultures long ago and/or far away?~

 

[Bomb#20]

Yes. In Shakespeare, you have women dressing and (successfully) acting as men, taking on male names and accomplishing male roles. In short, "identifying as men". Which was your goal post. Do you need to shift it?

So now pretending to be the other sex for ulterior purposes counts as "identifying". Got it.

Viola called herself Cesario and passed as male because she needed freedom of movement and needed a job, not because she actually thought she was a man.

 

[Politesse]

How about we stop referring to old cultures, like Shakespearean England, as any sort of benchmark here in the 21st century?
Tom

Maybe you should just sit down and read the thread in order, rather than jumping in to randomly atrack me here and there.

Seanie claimed that Albania is the only culture in the world where there is a tradition of "women identifying as men". I observed that trans men are both seen and commonly accepted in British culture today, and seanie objected that it wasn't "traditional". So I cited some common examples of British tradition in which women identified as men. No one is using Elizabethan culture as a benchmark for anything.