Split New York City Mayoral Race

[Derec]

I found Mamdani's platform and it doesn't sound so extreme to me. Of course, he won't accomplish most of his goals. When has any politician accomplished everything he's run on?

It does sound extreme to me, but then again, I grew up under actually existing socialism.
As to what he can accomplish, rent freeze he can do by himself, as the mayor appoints members to the board that determines rents of rent controlled apartments. Other things he will have no trouble getting through the very left-wing city council. A few things may fail due to Albany not playing ball, and I do hope they stand firm.

https://www.zohranfornyc.com/platform

First of all, what an ugly website design. That color scheme does not work at all.
Second, I think I figured out his housing plan:

• He will freeze the rents on rent controlled apartments. That means no increase in revenue for landlords.
• Costs keep increasing year over year, especially if he implements his tax and minimum wage hikes.
• Landlords cannot keep up with maintenance.
• Comrade Mamdani uses code violations caused by his rent freeze as an excuse to expropriate them, i.e. steal their real estate.

Btw, he says he's a big supporter of small businesses, so how is that giving the government the means of production? He is certainly idealistic but he's motivated a lot of young people to vote, which Is a good thing, imo.

You'd have to ask him. "Winning socialism" by "seizing the means of production" is his language, not mine.

He explains in the link how he would pay for some of his plans, but he can't do most of those things without the support of state government.

Yes, Hochul can still prevent the worst, if she stands firm. The lower his vote share in November, the less likely she will cave. So let's hope he gets no more than 40%.

I grew up right outside of New York City and I don't care who New Yorkers want for their mayor. It's interesting to read about him, but I don't feel as if NYC has much influence over the rest of the country. The US is a very diverse country, almost like 50 countries of varying size. The more urban ones lean left and the more rural ones lean right.

I already explained why I disagree in a previous post.

Plus the Democratic Party has always been called a big tent party, meaning that people from both the left and the right are welcome. Sadly, the US is more divided politically than it's ever been and I think that is mostly due to the Trump cult.

I don't think it's that simple. While he was a catalyst for additinal polarization (like the Squad getting elected), Trump was the product of polarization that was already well underway by the tiime he descended that escalator.
Remember 2000? Of course you do. In that election a segment of the left refused to vote for Al Gore, Mr. Manbearpig Climate Change, because he wasn't sufficiently ideologically pure. They preferred to vote for Nader, and gave us W.

Considering all the harm Trump is doing, it's hard for me to understand the obsession over what Mamdani wants to do.

Again, Trump should not be the focus of every single thread on here. We can, and should, discuss different political issues.

I don't see him wanting to be a dictator.

Perhaps. But even Trump moderated his message to get elected. Especially in 2016, but even in 2024 he insisted that he would not seek to implement Project 2025. Mamdani said a lot of extreme things before he decided to run for mayor and sought to moderate his image.

He just wants to make NYC a more affordable place to live.

Wouldn't we all? The problem, of course, are the pesky laws of economics, the cliffs that many a socialist pipedream crashed against.
Why is NYC so expensive? Surely because so many people want to live and visit there. At the same time, the area of NYC proper is fixed, and especially Manhattan is a relatively small place by area.
Why was NYC so much cheaper in the 80s? Rampant crime made it a less desirable location. At the same time, the US population was ~⅔ of the present population, so the pool of those who might be seeking to move or visit NYC was much smaller, with the same supply of land.

So affordability is a bit of an intractable problem. How do you allocate scarce resources? Price? You get the present problem. But what is the alternative? Price controls limit the price, but how do you decide who gets it if they can't outbid one another?

I suggest that if anyone wants to criticize him, they should read his actual platform and then mention the specific things they don't like and explain exactly why,

I have done that too.

instead of listening to the stupid rumors calling him a communist etc.

It's not stupid rumors, but his own words.

 

[Gospel]

No. More like Bizarro China. China these days has a capitalist economy and is run by a (nominally communist) dictatorship. DSA purports the opposite: They want to abolish capitalism and impose socialism through democratic means.

Which would mean you’re admitting authoritarianism isn’t an inherent feature of socialism, otherwise “through democratic means” wouldn’t even be possible. That undercuts your own Bizarro China analogy.

As I said, China's current economic system is capitalism. The reason they can build infrastructure more easily than in the US is not because of our capitalism, but because of our democracy. A dictatorship can make and implement decisions far more easily.

You’re making my point for me. If the “capitalist” system still out-builds us, then the economic model isn’t the magic bullet here, meaning clinging to our current form of capitalism while ignoring systemic inefficiency is what’s holding us back.

You are right that the world has changed a lot since the Cold War, but it is the socialists like Mamdani that cling to old ideas like "seize the means of production", "abolish private property". Same goes for his policy proposals like price controls.

You’re treating “old ideas” like they’re automatically bad, yet capitalism itself is older than most of these socialist policies. Longevity alone doesn’t prove a system works, results do. And right now, those results include stagnant wages, crumbling infrastructure, and widening inequality.

US has a lot of problems, but I don't think socialism is a solution to any of them.

That’s a belief, not an argument. If socialism addresses even one of those problems more effectively than the status quo, then outright dismissal isn’t analysis, it’s ideology.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem with your answers is that they only make sense if every business is racist. All it would take would be one business to recognize an untapped market and the desert would be gone.

In the utopia of perfect information and perfect competition, your response would be spot on. Since we don't live in that world, your response is unconvincing.

You are making racism into an all-consuming monster that most certainly does not exist.

Your flailing attempts to deny the possibility of racism are appalling nonsensical.

It doesn't require perfect information or perfect competition. It would take nearly perfect collusion to prevent it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But, according to one of our posters, more than half of the voters of NYC must be on drugs. Maybe he's the one with the problem. I don't get this obsession with a mayoral race in a city that's over 900 miles away from where someone else lives.

The poster has a very antiquated view of "socialism" when what Mamdani is advocating for is democratic socialism or also called enlightened capitalism.

We have already pointed out things where he's engaging in economic creationism.

The reich doesn't care if the plan it evil. The left doesn't care if the plan is possible.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I found Mamdani's platform and it doesn't sound so extreme to me. Of course, he won't accomplish most of his goals. When has any politician accomplished everything he's run on?

https://www.zohranfornyc.com/platform

Let's look at that.

Rent control? Build affordable housing? Rent control is how you destroy housing!

Bad landlords? Hey, you want more of them--that's what's going to happen if you keep stealing from them. 10% don't have enough heat--the only way that happens is if rent is below market value. Try that in a competitive market and your people will leave.

Deed theft? You're objecting to gentrification driving up prices--well, duh, you fix the place, it becomes more desirable, people want to go there and the value goes up. And he's talking about the wealthiest paying their "fair share". Dog whistle for economic creationism as property taxes are assessed on value.

Department of community safety? Absolutely zero details, looks very much like the underwear gnomes.

City owned grocery stores? Ok, as presented it would be of some benefit but note that this is just a subsidized price.

Free buses? Again, a subsidy. And it's ignoring the fact that buses lose a lot of time on stopping. You can't fix that other than by making the stops farther apart.

Corporate exploitation? On the surface it sounds good--but note that one of his examples is fighting the utilities. Hey, you realize utilities are a very low markup industry??

Free childcare? Yet another subsidy.

Baby baskets? That's going to make a difference?!?!

Schools? Big expense here. And car free streets by schools? That's going to make a mess of traffic and that's not the problem in the first place. School zones are part of the problem, this is just doubling down on it. You can't make all traffic "safe" for kids so you have to teach kids to be safe around traffic. School zones teach the wrong lesson! Safety is from taking some positive step to get an opening in traffic.

Corporate taxes? You know who pays them? In the end, the consumer.

Climate? More "renewable" garbage. They lock us into fossil fuels!

Green schools? The left's "green" is decidedly not green.

One in the right column with protections for the !CHR crowd.

I don't have time to finish this now.

 

[laughing dog]

Your flailing attempts to deny the possibility of racism are appalling nonsensical.

It doesn't require perfect information or perfect competition. It would take nearly perfect collusion to prevent it.

Not at all. Just herd behavior would suffice.

 

[southernhybrid]

Interestingly enough, I read that Cuomo is now pushing for some of the same policies that Mamdani has been supporting, despite being very much against those things in the recent past. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/07/cuomo-takes-page-from-mamdani-playbook-00498802

NEW YORK — Andrew Cuomo released a pair of policy proposals Thursday designed to one-up the populist platform of Democratic mayoral nominee Zohran Mamdani.

At a press briefing at a Midtown hotel, the former governor laid out a counterproposal to Mamdani’s promise of free buses and articulated his plan to lower the price of groceries.

Mamdani has pledged to make buses free for all New Yorkers, a plan that would cost around $900 million annually. On Wednesday, Cuomo proposed fully subsidizing subway and bus fares for New Yorkers earning up to 150 percent of the federal poverty level, which would apply to a family of four making up to $4,000 monthly. He pegged the annual cost at $140 million.

In response to Mamdani’s proposal for a city-run grocery store in each borough, Cuomo floated a new program to subsidize $100 worth of food purchases for households who make too much money to qualify for federal nutrition assistance. He pegged the cost of that initiative at $200 million a year.

More broadly, Cuomo cast his proposals as more targeted to New Yorkers in need.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Technically most of the Social Democrats (Eugene Debs days) original platform exists in one way or the other today.

But socialists like Mamdani want to push beyond mere social democracy.

Do they?

Trump currently has the National Guard out on the streets for the second time...

Trump should not be the focus of every single thread on here.

It does because I'm so tired of hearing about all the 'threats' of the Democrats and Social Democrats which don't amount to a hill of beans when actual tyranny is on going. The NYC Mayor does not have the authority to dismantle capitalism in NYC.

and you are worried that the Mayor of NYC (one of the global hubs of capitalism) has the ability to upend capitalism.

He certainly has the ability to cause a lot of problems for NYC during this term. And he will embolden socialists elsewhere - like Omar Fateh in Minneapolisomalia.

He doesn't. The Governor of NY State has a lot more control over these policies via the legislature than the Mayor does.

Mamdami's biggest problem as a candidate is exactly that, he wouldn't have the capacity to enact such broad changes. It is simply being the Mayor. And if you think Wall Street will be powerless against the Mayor, you have no idea how in the pockets the Democrats in Albany are with them.

 

[Gospel]

Interestingly enough, I read that Cuomo is now pushing for some of the same policies that Mamdani has been supporting, despite being very much against those things in the recent past. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/07/cuomo-takes-page-from-mamdani-playbook-00498802

NEW YORK — Andrew Cuomo released a pair of policy proposals Thursday designed to one-up the populist platform of Democratic mayoral nominee Zohran Mamdani.

At a press briefing at a Midtown hotel, the former governor laid out a counterproposal to Mamdani’s promise of free buses and articulated his plan to lower the price of groceries.

Mamdani has pledged to make buses free for all New Yorkers, a plan that would cost around $900 million annually. On Wednesday, Cuomo proposed fully subsidizing subway and bus fares for New Yorkers earning up to 150 percent of the federal poverty level, which would apply to a family of four making up to $4,000 monthly. He pegged the annual cost at $140 million.

In response to Mamdani’s proposal for a city-run grocery store in each borough, Cuomo floated a new program to subsidize $100 worth of food purchases for households who make too much money to qualify for federal nutrition assistance. He pegged the cost of that initiative at $200 million a year.

More broadly, Cuomo cast his proposals as more targeted to New Yorkers in need.

Classic political maneuver, slam the idea when it’s coming from someone else, then repackage a watered-down version when it polls well.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Didn't work for Roosevelt and he didn't have anywhere near the negative views of him as Cuomo.

 

[Jarhyn]

Interestingly enough, I read that Cuomo is now pushing for some of the same policies that Mamdani has been supporting, despite being very much against those things in the recent past. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/07/cuomo-takes-page-from-mamdani-playbook-00498802

NEW YORK — Andrew Cuomo released a pair of policy proposals Thursday designed to one-up the populist platform of Democratic mayoral nominee Zohran Mamdani.

At a press briefing at a Midtown hotel, the former governor laid out a counterproposal to Mamdani’s promise of free buses and articulated his plan to lower the price of groceries.

Mamdani has pledged to make buses free for all New Yorkers, a plan that would cost around $900 million annually. On Wednesday, Cuomo proposed fully subsidizing subway and bus fares for New Yorkers earning up to 150 percent of the federal poverty level, which would apply to a family of four making up to $4,000 monthly. He pegged the annual cost at $140 million.

In response to Mamdani’s proposal for a city-run grocery store in each borough, Cuomo floated a new program to subsidize $100 worth of food purchases for households who make too much money to qualify for federal nutrition assistance. He pegged the cost of that initiative at $200 million a year.

More broadly, Cuomo cast his proposals as more targeted to New Yorkers in need.

Fucking corporate weathervanes can go to hell.

If he is going to shift around the political field like a fucking slip and slide, long enough to give lip service to policies that he clearly hates for election purposes, there's almost no incentive or guarantee he will retain those policies if he makes it past the post.

At this point he's just spoiling to make the Republican win, though.

 

[southernhybrid]

Interestingly enough, I read that Cuomo is now pushing for some of the same policies that Mamdani has been supporting, despite being very much against those things in the recent past. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/07/cuomo-takes-page-from-mamdani-playbook-00498802

NEW YORK — Andrew Cuomo released a pair of policy proposals Thursday designed to one-up the populist platform of Democratic mayoral nominee Zohran Mamdani.

At a press briefing at a Midtown hotel, the former governor laid out a counterproposal to Mamdani’s promise of free buses and articulated his plan to lower the price of groceries.

Mamdani has pledged to make buses free for all New Yorkers, a plan that would cost around $900 million annually. On Wednesday, Cuomo proposed fully subsidizing subway and bus fares for New Yorkers earning up to 150 percent of the federal poverty level, which would apply to a family of four making up to $4,000 monthly. He pegged the annual cost at $140 million.

In response to Mamdani’s proposal for a city-run grocery store in each borough, Cuomo floated a new program to subsidize $100 worth of food purchases for households who make too much money to qualify for federal nutrition assistance. He pegged the cost of that initiative at $200 million a year.

More broadly, Cuomo cast his proposals as more targeted to New Yorkers in need.

Fucking corporate weathervanes can go to hell.

If he is going to shift around the political field like a fucking slip and slide, long enough to give lip service to policies that he clearly hates for election purposes, there's almost no incentive or guarantee he will retain those policies if he makes it past the post.

At this point he's just spoiling to make the Republican win, though.

The Republican is extremely unpopular so I doubt he has a chance. The last time I checked, his polling numbers were around 12%. Mamdani is well ahead of all of the others. A far right Republican running for mayor in NYC is like a socialist running in my rather conservative gerrymandered district in Georgia. One tried and she lost in a huge landslide. I do wonder what people like this are thinking when they run for office in areas where they obviously have no chance of winning.

 

[Derec]

I wasn’t referring to 10/7 and you know it.

The problem is that Mamdani and his allies were against Israel responding militarily against the Hamas aggression from the beginning.
Look at that statement of his that I posted. On 10/8, he condemned Israel declaring war against Hamas.

Right, a small band of terrorists has the ability to commit genocide.

A large band of terrorists, supported by a rogue regime seeking nuclear weapons, but details of that are better saved for the Gaza thread.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I found Mamdani's platform and it doesn't sound so extreme to me. Of course, he won't accomplish most of his goals. When has any politician accomplished everything he's run on?

Continuing where I left off before:

Healthcare: Sounds more like buzzwords than actual solutions.

Labor: Run up the costs--pay no attention to the fact that will run up the prices.

Small business: He's hitting the stupid button here. Small businesses are being forced to close because it's too expensive to operate and your solution is to make it easier to start a business??

Libraries: Fine with this one.

Trump proofing: Really, now, you think that will work?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your flailing attempts to deny the possibility of racism are appalling nonsensical.

It doesn't require perfect information or perfect competition. It would take nearly perfect collusion to prevent it.

Not at all. Just herd behavior would suffice.

But there are the Warren Buffets of the world. The more discrimination there is the more advantageous it is to go against it. It was pervasive in the pre-civil-rights era because there was a social cost to not discriminating.

 

[laughing dog]

Your flailing attempts to deny the possibility of racism are appalling nonsensical.

It doesn't require perfect information or perfect competition. It would take nearly perfect collusion to prevent it.

Not at all. Just herd behavior would suffice.

But there are the Warren Buffets of the world. The more discrimination there is the more advantageous it is to go against it. It was pervasive in the pre-civil-rights era because there was a social cost to not discriminating.

If you think there are entrepreneurs scouring every area of the US for profitability, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for you at a discount rpice.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your flailing attempts to deny the possibility of racism are appalling nonsensical.

It doesn't require perfect information or perfect competition. It would take nearly perfect collusion to prevent it.

Not at all. Just herd behavior would suffice.

But there are the Warren Buffets of the world. The more discrimination there is the more advantageous it is to go against it. It was pervasive in the pre-civil-rights era because there was a social cost to not discriminating.

If you think there are entrepreneurs scouring every area of the US for profitability, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for you at a discount rpice.

One of the ways to make money is find an underpriced resource. Labor is a resource.

 

[unapologetic]

If you think there are entrepreneurs scouring every area of the US for profitability,...

Yes I do.
I have a plot in Florida I will trade for your bridge.

 

[ZiprHead]

Your flailing attempts to deny the possibility of racism are appalling nonsensical.

It doesn't require perfect information or perfect competition. It would take nearly perfect collusion to prevent it.

Not at all. Just herd behavior would suffice.

But there are the Warren Buffets of the world. The more discrimination there is the more advantageous it is to go against it. It was pervasive in the pre-civil-rights era because there was a social cost to not discriminating.

If you think there are entrepreneurs scouring every area of the US for profitability, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for you at a discount rpice.

One of the ways to make money is find an underpriced resource. Labor is a resource.

Most labor in the US is under priced.

 

[thebeave]

View attachment 51199

I see a lot of garbage in there.

Freeze rent? You realize that's how you get slums? Landlords no longer have either the desire nor the money to keep up their property. And nobody builds more.

Building affordable housing? Once again, economic creationism. It's not like there's some magical way to make houses cheaper. Most of the cost goes into the minimum to make anything, there's little that can be done to reduce the cost--and to the extent it's possible it shows up to a large degree in the little things that matter. Like paper thin walls etc.

City owned grocery stores? Once again, economic creationism. Groceries are a pretty low margin business. I would be shocked if government could match the existing stores, let alone be cheaper. And food deserts exist for a reason--it's not that the companies are discriminating against an area, but that stores there have too much shrink, too much robbery, not enough sales.

And I don't lik the minimum wage at all, let alone raising it to $30. It always has been about cutting off the bottom of the ladder.

Yep. IIRC, Mamdoni touted a city owned grocery store in Kansas City as an example. It just closed:

Sun Fresh closed in Linwood after costs crippled nonprofit, KC leaders say

Sun Fresh Market, a grocery store that strived to improve what city leaders called a food desert in Kansas City’s East Side, closed its Linwood location this week due to persistent crime and security issues, operating costs that outweighed reserves and city investments, and sewage odors that drove customers away, officials claim.

The conversation among city leaders over Zoom Friday eventually shifted toward whether it is possible to reopen a store at the Sun Fresh location in the future, and what it would take to make it happen. A big part of the fix, officials said, was reducing the kinds of crime and public safety concerns that plagued the area and kept customers from coming back.

Over the years, customers and employees of Sun Fresh in Linwood were impacted by fights, shoplifting, drug use and prostitution. Teenage shelf stockers had to carry tasers to defend themselves. “When you have folks that pull down their pants and defecate in front of the door when people are coming in and outside of the store, people then do not come back,” Curls said.

Shelf stockers armed with tasers? Pooping at the front door? Prostitution?