Happy Participation Trophy Day

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

A little bit early, but I figured I'd send it out now.

Columbus Day, 2025

BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA A PROCLAMATION Today our Nation honors the legendary Christopher Columbus -- the original American hero,

www.whitehouse.gov

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

A little bit early, but I figured I'd send it out now.

Columbus Day, 2025

BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA A PROCLAMATION Today our Nation honors the legendary Christopher Columbus -- the original American hero,

www.whitehouse.gov

So Trump believes the Bahamas are part of Asia. The way he made this proclamation he makes it sound like Columbus Day wasn't already an established US holiday, but that he created it.

 

[Terrell]

Yeah, the Native Americans might want to say something about who discovered America. Even if you don't want to count indigenous people there's this Leif Erikson fellow who beat Colombus by nearly 500 years.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

He later ventured onward to Cuba and other islands in the Caribbean — exploring their coasts and engaging with their people....

Outrageously, in recent years, Christopher Columbus has been a prime target of a vicious and merciless campaign to erase our history, slander our heroes, and attack our heritage. ...

He was just "engaging with their people." Critics are trying to "erase our history."

 

[Gospel]

Columbus described them as “friendly and generous locals.” I guess that’s the kind of behavior that makes American Hero's think, “We should enslave them".

 

[Derec]

So Trump believes the Bahamas are part of Asia.

How?

Just over 2 months later, on October 12, 1492, Columbus made landfall in the modern-day Bahamas. Upon his arrival, he planted a majestic cross in a mighty act of devotion, dedicating the land to God and setting in motion America’s proud birthright of faith. Though he initially believed he had arrived in Asia, his discovery opened the vast frontier and untold splendors of the New World to Europe. He later ventured onward to Cuba and other islands in the Caribbean — exploring their coasts and engaging with their people.

Reading comprehension fail.

 

[Derec]

Yeah, the Native Americans might want to say something about who discovered America. Even if you don't want to count indigenous people there's this Leif Erikson fellow who beat Colombus by nearly 500 years.

While both the ancient hunter-gatherers who crossed the land bridge across the modern-day Bering Strait, and the Vikings who made some temporary settlements in Vinland can be credited as discovering America as well, all three are legitimate discoveries as Erikson and Columbus did not know of the discoveries before them. I also think the Columbian discovery is very different than the other two, as I will explain below.

The ancient Siberian hunter-gatherers (the very fact that they discovered and settled the Americas belies the claims of them being "indigenous" in any ontological sense) were isolated from other groups of humans, and thus their discovery remained unknown.
Not that they knew that they discovered a brand new continent, as they did not have a concept of continents. They just walked in search of living space and food sources.
The Vikings probably did not realize they discovered a new continent either, and they neither stuck around nor publicized their discovery.

But when Columbus made landfall, it quickly became known throughout Afro-Eurasia, and precipitated settlement and trade - also known as Columbian Exchange - that fundamentally changed both parts of the world, for both good and ill.

Can you imagine Italian cooking without tomatoes?

Or Thai cuisine without hot chili peppers? And on the other side, Americas gained domestic animals like chickens, pigs and cows as well as plants like wheat, rice, onion, garlic and coriander - the last three going great with peppers, tomatoes and avocadoes in salsas and guac.

Leif Erikson did not accomplish that, and ancient hunter-gatherers came well before domestic plants and animals were bred on either side of the World. That is reason enough to recognize his discovery, even if it also led to negative consequences like the spread of diseases like smallpox and syphilis as well as things like the transatlantic slave (although Arab slave trade flourished both before and after the transatlantic version).

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

...

Just over 2 months later, on October 12, 1492, Columbus made landfall in the modern-day Bahamas.

...

Next you're going to tell us that Columbus wasn't a time traveler.

 

[Derec]

Next you're going to tell us that Columbus wasn't a time traveler.

Huh? "Modern-day x" is a phrase used when the writer/speaker uses the modern name of a territory to acknowledge that it was not known by that name in those days.
For example, BBC does not believe that Constantine the Great was a time traveler either.

I'm opposed to Trump as much as anybody here, but some of you are really grasping at straws to make him look bad.

 

[Terrell]

Yeah, the Native Americans might want to say something about who discovered America. Even if you don't want to count indigenous people there's this Leif Erikson fellow who beat Colombus by nearly 500 years.

While both the ancient hunter-gatherers who crossed the land bridge across the modern-day Bering Strait, and the Vikings who made some temporary settlements in Vinland can be credited as discovering America as well, all three are legitimate discoveries as Erikson and Columbus did not know of the discoveries before them. I also think the Columbian discovery is very different than the other two, as I will explain below.

The ancient Siberian hunter-gatherers (the very fact that they discovered and settled the Americas belies the claims of them being "indigenous" in any ontological sense) were isolated from other groups of humans, and thus their discovery remained unknown.
Not that they knew that they discovered a brand new continent, as they did not have a concept of continents. They just walked in search of living space and food sources.
The Vikings probably did not realize they discovered a new continent either, and they neither stuck around nor publicized their discovery.

But when Columbus made landfall, it quickly became known throughout Afro-Eurasia, and precipitated settlement and trade - also known as Columbian Exchange - that fundamentally changed both parts of the world, for both good and ill.

Can you imagine Italian cooking without tomatoes?

Or Thai cuisine without hot chili peppers? And on the other side, Americas gained domestic animals like chickens, pigs and cows as well as plants like wheat, rice, onion, garlic and coriander - the last three going great with peppers, tomatoes and avocadoes in salsas and guac.

Leif Erikson did not accomplish that, and ancient hunter-gatherers came well before domestic plants and animals were bred on either side of the World. That is reason enough to recognize his discovery, even if it also led to negative consequences like the spread of diseases like smallpox and syphilis as well as things like the transatlantic slave (although Arab slave trade flourished both before and after the transatlantic version).

It really doesn't matter whether or not Erikson shared what he found he still found it before Columbus. The point is that if you're not the first to find something, then you're not the discoverer.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Next you're going to tell us that Columbus wasn't a time traveler.

Huh? "Modern-day x" is a phrase used when the writer/speaker uses the modern name of a territory to acknowledge that it was not known by that name in those days.
For example, BBC does not believe that Constantine the Great was a time traveler either.

I'm opposed to Trump as much as anybody here, but some of you are really grasping at straws to make him look bad.

Exactly as predicted. Thank you, Captain Obvious.

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm opposed to Trump as much as anybody here,

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

It really doesn't matter whether or not Erikson shared what he found he still found it before Columbus. The point is that if you're not the first to find something, then you're not the discoverer.

To add on...

Eriksson actually did share it. There are detailed Norse sagas describing Vinland and its inhabitants (the Skrælingjar). More importantly, Greenland was settled by Europeans around 985 AD, and those settlements lasted until roughly 1450 AD — about 500 years. This wasn’t a forgotten rumor; it was a living part of Norse geography and storytelling. People in Iceland, Scandinavia, and even parts of the British Isles knew about these lands, and travel between Iceland and Greenland occasionally continued throughout that period.

It’s also noteworthy that Christopher Columbus’s son, Ferdinand, wrote in his father’s biography that Columbus had sailed to the British Isles and Thule (Iceland) around 1477, precisely where knowledge of Greenland and Vinland would have been most accessible. Scholars debate whether that claim was embellished, but if true, it shows Columbus was aware of northern voyages long before 1492 -- and if false, it’s hard to see why he or his son would invent such a trip unless it were already commonly rumored that Atlantic exploration had gone that far.

As for the claim that Columbus’s voyage was “different” because it was more widely publicized — that’s largely due to historical context, not the discovery itself. Columbus’s expedition had royal sponsorship, occurred in the early age of printing, and tied directly into emerging imperial economies. The Viking explorers in ~1000 AD had no such propaganda machinery. The difference isn’t about who “discovered” the continent, but who had the imperial infrastructure to exploit and publicize it.

Of course we cannot mention that exploitation or we're bad! Very bad. Both sides! We want to "erase history." Columbus was merely "engaging with the people."

Finally, the idea that the first human settlers of the Americas didn't discover the continent first some time > 10,000 years ago is just simply absurd.

And just as an aside -- there’s also evidence of contact between East Polynesians and South Americans around 1200 AD, suggesting that even before Columbus, there were other transoceanic connections across vast distances. Those people were also not part of vast empires with printing presses either, but recent DNA studies have confirmed the relationships.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

So Trump believes the Bahamas are part of Asia.

How?

Just over 2 months later, on October 12, 1492, Columbus made landfall in the modern-day Bahamas. Upon his arrival, he planted a majestic cross in a mighty act of devotion, dedicating the land to God and setting in motion America’s proud birthright of faith. Though he initially believed he had arrived in Asia, his discovery opened the vast frontier and untold splendors of the New World to Europe. He later ventured onward to Cuba and other islands in the Caribbean — exploring their coasts and engaging with their people.

Reading comprehension fail.

I was making a joke about Trump; even he would know that Bahamas not part of Asia.
Anyway, the real points about Columbus are being missed by USians. Firstly, the size of the Earth was well known in his time and yet he falsely believed it was smaller, and that he could get to Asia by an alternate route. Secondly, he didn't discover what would become the mainland USA (ignoring the native peoples and Vikings), he never set foot on it, so USians celebrating him as the discoverer of their nation is sheer ignorance and blatant nonsense. As for opening up the New World to Europeans. it would have happened anyway.