Merged Greenland is part of NATO via Denmark

[laughing dog]

It’s cute you think Trump has a strategy.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It’s cute you think Trump has a strategy.

I agree with you. I think he's emotionally driven amd erratic. But I think he's got thoughts and feelings, and being USA's president means we have to give a shit. A bit like being married to an abusive and violent husband. We can puzzle together what pattern Trumps outbursts have, and from that infer an implicit strategy. A bit like the abused wife might make put protective measures in place when she notices her husband opens a can of beer.

But Europe's lack of interest in its own self preservation, or interest in being a credible threat, should annoy any of its allies. Trump has every right to be annoyed about that.

And he is succeeding in goading Europe into military spending where Biden, Obama and first term Trump failed.

So perhaps we should reluctantly admit that Trump is what Europe needed to wake the fuck up out of its deluded slumber. Which is painful to admit

 

[unapologetic]

If Trump fucks it up it will be because he insists on renaming it.

Of course he will. The name GREENland is too 'woke'.

Denmark and Greenland have already offered talks to the USA (specifically Marco Rubio) to talk about sales of rare earths and other things.

Greenland has always been open to trade with us. We don't need to annex them. Rump just wants to claim a 'win'.

Trump has now opened the door, and Greenland is free to secede at any point.

Rump didn't make an offer, he made a threat to take it.

Shit, with over 800,000 sq. mi., our majesty could get missile bases,

Greenland always let us have any bases we wanted. We even closed a few. We can reopen them any time we want.

Both USA and Denmark are exceedingly well run countries with strong economies.

Not anymore. Rump is runing our economy. We are now MAGA, Morons Are Governing America.

But Trump is a businessman. I think he understands how deals work.

Rump is a slumlord. His idea of a 'deal' is to compete and win, not cooperate or bargan.

You can't blame him for doing exactly the thing he promised he'd do in the election. If anything this is part of the platform that elected him, ie the will of the people.

No, it isn't. He never made any exact promises. He gaslighted the people.

USA already has a military base on Greenland. In fact, since WW2 there's been more US soldiers stationed on Greenland than Danish soldiers. That's still the situation.

Obviously this isn't about national security. That's an incredibly stupid justification. When it comes to that, USA already has everything they could ever want. Up until now, Denmark could not have been cooperating more with USA. Despite Trumps all silly statements, there's no talk about forcing USA to close the base.

It's like someone eating the entire carton of popcorn that was supposed to be for everyone, and then cries about that it's not fair that it ran out. Trump isn't making any sense. I think it's just a power play. Showing everyone how USA can push everyone around.

If you understand that, how can you argue this is good for Greenland? Or even necessary for us?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Not anymore. Rump is runing our economy. We are now MAGA, Morons Are Governing America.

That's such bullshit. USA is doing great. We can argue all day whether American economic dominance is because of it encourages innovation, entrepreneurial culture or its access to cheap energy or a combination. But USA is awesome.

Its also a beacon of freedom. I've repeated it many times here but modern feminism and Gay pride came from USA. Not Europe.

Europeans often find it annoying that we watch more American movies than European. Tough titties. Nobody is forcing us.

Netflix is an American company. As is Amazon prime and HBO. Twitter/X is American. A cultures soft power doesn't come from military might. It comes from actual influence. USA is number one.

MAGA sure isn't doing USA any favours but saying they're ruining USA or ruining the economy is silly.

If you understand that, how can you argue this is good for Greenland? Or even necessary for us?

What are you talking about? I never said it was good for Greenland or good for USA. You just made that up.

What I am trying to do with this thread is exploring what Trumps play for Greenland means and why he's doing it.

 

[unapologetic]

What are you talking about? I never said it was good for Greenland or good for USA. You just made that up.

From post #1:

One doesn't have to be a genius to see the pretty extreme economic benefit to the average Greenlander if they join USA.

 

[DrZoidberg]

What are you talking about? I never said it was good for Greenland or good for USA. You just made that up.

From post #1:

One doesn't have to be a genius to see the pretty extreme economic benefit to the average Greenlander if they join USA.

I'll reiterate.. you just made it up.

I've listed a bunch of hypotheticals. You took that as me arguing for a position.

There's a difference between a debate and a discussion. I'm not trying to win. Only understand

 

[laughing dog]

It’s cute you think Trump has a strategy.

I agree with you. I think he's emotionally driven amd erratic. But I think he's got thoughts and feelings, and being USA's president means we have to give a shit. A bit like being married to an abusive and violent husband. We can puzzle together what pattern Trumps outbursts have, and from that infer an implicit strategy. A bit like the abused wife might make put protective measures in place when she notices her husband opens a can of beer.

But Europe's lack of interest in its own self preservation, or interest in being a credible threat, should annoy any of its allies. Trump has every right to be annoyed about that.

And he is succeeding in goading Europe into military spending where Biden, Obama and first term Trump failed.

So perhaps we should reluctantly admit that Trump is what Europe needed to wake the fuck up out of its deluded slumber. Which is painful to admit

The problem is Ukraine is paying the price for Trump’s tantrum.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It’s cute you think Trump has a strategy.

I agree with you. I think he's emotionally driven amd erratic. But I think he's got thoughts and feelings, and being USA's president means we have to give a shit. A bit like being married to an abusive and violent husband. We can puzzle together what pattern Trumps outbursts have, and from that infer an implicit strategy. A bit like the abused wife might make put protective measures in place when she notices her husband opens a can of beer.

But Europe's lack of interest in its own self preservation, or interest in being a credible threat, should annoy any of its allies. Trump has every right to be annoyed about that.

And he is succeeding in goading Europe into military spending where Biden, Obama and first term Trump failed.

So perhaps we should reluctantly admit that Trump is what Europe needed to wake the fuck up out of its deluded slumber. Which is painful to admit

The problem is Ukraine is paying the price for Trump’s tantrum.

Why would Trump care about Ukraine? Other than that you and me thinks he should.

 

[laughing dog]

It’s cute you think Trump has a strategy.

I agree with you. I think he's emotionally driven amd erratic. But I think he's got thoughts and feelings, and being USA's president means we have to give a shit. A bit like being married to an abusive and violent husband. We can puzzle together what pattern Trumps outbursts have, and from that infer an implicit strategy. A bit like the abused wife might make put protective measures in place when she notices her husband opens a can of beer.

But Europe's lack of interest in its own self preservation, or interest in being a credible threat, should annoy any of its allies. Trump has every right to be annoyed about that.

And he is succeeding in goading Europe into military spending where Biden, Obama and first term Trump failed.

So perhaps we should reluctantly admit that Trump is what Europe needed to wake the fuck up out of its deluded slumber. Which is painful to admit

The problem is Ukraine is paying the price for Trump’s tantrum.

Why would Trump care about Ukraine? Other than that you and me thinks he should.

Adults understand the value of maintaining longstanding mutually beneficial commitments. Why should Europe follow such a leader?

 

[DrZoidberg]

It’s cute you think Trump has a strategy.

I agree with you. I think he's emotionally driven amd erratic. But I think he's got thoughts and feelings, and being USA's president means we have to give a shit. A bit like being married to an abusive and violent husband. We can puzzle together what pattern Trumps outbursts have, and from that infer an implicit strategy. A bit like the abused wife might make put protective measures in place when she notices her husband opens a can of beer.

But Europe's lack of interest in its own self preservation, or interest in being a credible threat, should annoy any of its allies. Trump has every right to be annoyed about that.

And he is succeeding in goading Europe into military spending where Biden, Obama and first term Trump failed.

So perhaps we should reluctantly admit that Trump is what Europe needed to wake the fuck up out of its deluded slumber. Which is painful to admit

The problem is Ukraine is paying the price for Trump’s tantrum.

Why would Trump care about Ukraine? Other than that you and me thinks he should.

Adults understand the value of maintaining longstanding mutually beneficial commitments.

Why should Europe follow such a leader?

Do we? Since 2022 Europe have been working hard to make themselves independent from US military. We've still got a bit to go, but Ukraine has proven European military hardware and doctrine is effective. I don't think we will follow USA's lead any longer.

Here's the thing, since WW2 USA have wanted to be the leader of the free world. And spent lots of money to be that. Trump is a departure from that. The "Donroe doctrine" is USA stopping with pulling the heaviest load for world peace, and demanding its a shared effort. A club between equal nations. Not USA leading them.

I think Europe has taken USA for granted..

I think Europe hasn't been acting like adults since WW2. Now an American leader is also acting childish, so now Europe has had to grow up in a hurry.

While I don't like Trump, I like that an American president has finally had enough of European freeloading and demanding we hold our own.

I don't think the shielded bubble Europe has been living in has been healthy for us. We've spent so much time and money quibbling about complete bullshit policy, instead of focusing on the basics, a strong economy and a strong military.

In international diplomacy ones voice is only as big as ones army. I welcome that Europe has regained its independent voice. We don't need to be led by USA any longer.

 

[unapologetic]

Why would Trump care about Ukraine?

Worse than not careing. Rump wants to give the Ukraine to Putin.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Why would Trump care about Ukraine?

Worse than not careing. Rump wants to give the Ukraine to Putin.

I don’t think so. If he wanted that he would actively sabotage Europes efforts. He'd also lift the sanctions against Russia.

He seems more into just trying to end it asap, no matter the cost for Ukraine. While minimising costs to USA. Which makes sense if he just wants Russia to be open for business again and things to go back to normal. He's been leaning hard on both sides to cut lossas and end it.

I think he's amoral and just doesn’t care about either Russia or Ukraine. I don't think he's thinking long term nor cares about a sustainable peace.

Don’t forget that USA under Biden donated huge amounts of military hardware to Ukraine. Much more than European countries. Also under Trumps first term USA upgraded Ukraine's defences (which is why it initially did so well).

Nah, USA under Trump has done and is doing plenty to help Ukraine. So I think its an unfair accusation.

We can all agree that he should do more. But that's another argument. Its also another thread

 

[laughing dog]

It’s cute you think Trump has a strategy.

I agree with you. I think he's emotionally driven amd erratic. But I think he's got thoughts and feelings, and being USA's president means we have to give a shit. A bit like being married to an abusive and violent husband. We can puzzle together what pattern Trumps outbursts have, and from that infer an implicit strategy. A bit like the abused wife might make put protective measures in place when she notices her husband opens a can of beer.

But Europe's lack of interest in its own self preservation, or interest in being a credible threat, should annoy any of its allies. Trump has every right to be annoyed about that.

And he is succeeding in goading Europe into military spending where Biden, Obama and first term Trump failed.

So perhaps we should reluctantly admit that Trump is what Europe needed to wake the fuck up out of its deluded slumber. Which is painful to admit

The problem is Ukraine is paying the price for Trump’s tantrum.

Why would Trump care about Ukraine? Other than that you and me thinks he should.

Adults understand the value of maintaining longstanding mutually beneficial commitments.

Why should Europe follow such a leader?

Do we?

Up until now, Europe has. While Europe weans itself, it wii continue to follow to a lessening degree.

 

[unapologetic]

That's such bullshit. USA is doing great. We can argue all day whether American economic dominance is because of it encourages innovation, entrepreneurial culture or its access to cheap energy or a combination. But USA is awesome.

Thanks for the kind words. But that's old news. A lot has changed in the last 11 months.
And please don't try to tell me about what i'm liveing through. That is what Rump does, it's called gaslighting.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Not anymore. Rump is runing our economy. We are now MAGA, Morons Are Governing America.

That's such bullshit. USA is doing great.

Our economy created 50k jobs in December, and averages about 50k jobs created every month in 2025. That was caused in very large part by Trump putting a ball and chain on construction via the tariffs on materials.

 

[Tigers!]

It’s cute you think Trump has a strategy.

I agree with you. I think he's emotionally driven amd erratic. But I think he's got thoughts and feelings, and being USA's president means we have to give a shit. A bit like being married to an abusive and violent husband. We can puzzle together what pattern Trumps outbursts have, and from that infer an implicit strategy. A bit like the abused wife might make put protective measures in place when she notices her husband opens a can of beer.

But Europe's lack of interest in its own self preservation, or interest in being a credible threat, should annoy any of its allies. Trump has every right to be annoyed about that.

And he is succeeding in goading Europe into military spending where Biden, Obama and first term Trump failed.

So perhaps we should reluctantly admit that Trump is what Europe needed to wake the fuck up out of its deluded slumber. Which is painful to admit

The problem is Ukraine is paying the price for Trump's tantrum.

Trump's tantrum (whichever one of many you refer) did not cause Putin's invasion, of which Ukraine is indeed paying the price

 

[laughing dog]

It’s cute you think Trump has a strategy.

I agree with you. I think he's emotionally driven amd erratic. But I think he's got thoughts and feelings, and being USA's president means we have to give a shit. A bit like being married to an abusive and violent husband. We can puzzle together what pattern Trumps outbursts have, and from that infer an implicit strategy. A bit like the abused wife might make put protective measures in place when she notices her husband opens a can of beer.

But Europe's lack of interest in its own self preservation, or interest in being a credible threat, should annoy any of its allies. Trump has every right to be annoyed about that.

And he is succeeding in goading Europe into military spending where Biden, Obama and first term Trump failed.

So perhaps we should reluctantly admit that Trump is what Europe needed to wake the fuck up out of its deluded slumber. Which is painful to admit

The problem is Ukraine is paying the price for Trump's tantrum.

Trump's tantrum (whichever one of many you refer) did not cause Putin's invasion, of which Ukraine is indeed paying the price

I didn’t say it did. But his reluctance to give sufficient help is prolonging Ukraine’s misery. That reluctance is due in part to his tantrums about Europe’s free riding on defense.

 

[Tigers!]

Bide

It’s cute you think Trump has a strategy.

I agree with you. I think he's emotionally driven amd erratic. But I think he's got thoughts and feelings, and being USA's president means we have to give a shit. A bit like being married to an abusive and violent husband. We can puzzle together what pattern Trumps outbursts have, and from that infer an implicit strategy. A bit like the abused wife might make put protective measures in place when she notices her husband opens a can of beer.

But Europe's lack of interest in its own self preservation, or interest in being a credible threat, should annoy any of its allies. Trump has every right to be annoyed about that.

And he is succeeding in goading Europe into military spending where Biden, Obama and first term Trump failed.

So perhaps we should reluctantly admit that Trump is what Europe needed to wake the fuck up out of its deluded slumber. Which is painful to admit

The problem is Ukraine is paying the price for Trump's tantrum.

Trump's tantrum (whichever one of many you refer) did not cause Putin's invasion, of which Ukraine is indeed paying the price

I didn’t say it did. But his reluctance to give sufficient help is prolonging Ukraine’s misery. That reluctance is due in part to his tantrums about Europe’s free riding on defense.

Presidents have not done much as could be done for Ukraine - Biden, Trump. Both have been parsimonious .
And before it is mentioned Australia can and should be doing much more for Ukraine

 

[DrZoidberg]

Bide

It’s cute you think Trump has a strategy.

I agree with you. I think he's emotionally driven amd erratic. But I think he's got thoughts and feelings, and being USA's president means we have to give a shit. A bit like being married to an abusive and violent husband. We can puzzle together what pattern Trumps outbursts have, and from that infer an implicit strategy. A bit like the abused wife might make put protective measures in place when she notices her husband opens a can of beer.

But Europe's lack of interest in its own self preservation, or interest in being a credible threat, should annoy any of its allies. Trump has every right to be annoyed about that.

And he is succeeding in goading Europe into military spending where Biden, Obama and first term Trump failed.

So perhaps we should reluctantly admit that Trump is what Europe needed to wake the fuck up out of its deluded slumber. Which is painful to admit

The problem is Ukraine is paying the price for Trump's tantrum.

Trump's tantrum (whichever one of many you refer) did not cause Putin's invasion, of which Ukraine is indeed paying the price

I didn’t say it did. But his reluctance to give sufficient help is prolonging Ukraine’s misery. That reluctance is due in part to his tantrums about Europe’s free riding on defense.

Presidents have not done much as could be done for Ukraine - Biden, Trump. Both have been parsimonious .
And before it is mentioned Australia can and should be doing much more for Ukraine

Isn't the Australian logic that they should help out in Europe so they will get help in the inevitable future Chinese showdown

 

[DrZoidberg]

It’s cute you think Trump has a strategy.

I agree with you. I think he's emotionally driven amd erratic. But I think he's got thoughts and feelings, and being USA's president means we have to give a shit. A bit like being married to an abusive and violent husband. We can puzzle together what pattern Trumps outbursts have, and from that infer an implicit strategy. A bit like the abused wife might make put protective measures in place when she notices her husband opens a can of beer.

But Europe's lack of interest in its own self preservation, or interest in being a credible threat, should annoy any of its allies. Trump has every right to be annoyed about that.

And he is succeeding in goading Europe into military spending where Biden, Obama and first term Trump failed.

So perhaps we should reluctantly admit that Trump is what Europe needed to wake the fuck up out of its deluded slumber. Which is painful to admit

The problem is Ukraine is paying the price for Trump’s tantrum.

Why would Trump care about Ukraine? Other than that you and me thinks he should.

Adults understand the value of maintaining longstanding mutually beneficial commitments.

Why should Europe follow such a leader?

Do we?

Up until now, Europe has. While Europe weans itself, it wii continue to follow to a lessening degree.

If you pay attention USA stopped leading the free world in 2022. All European nations pivoted at that point to make us independent (from US armed forces). We all learned the hard way that if USA didn't send enough stuff to Ukraine for Ukraine to win, there was nothing European countries could do about it. That woke us up real fast. We were already unhappy about Bidens contributions. Guess how unhappy we are now?


Europe is still far from US intel capabilities (and are still completely dependent on USA telling us what the Russians are up to). USA is number one with a huge margin. We will most likely never reach US levels. But our goal is to have an independent intel capacity, good enough for European defence, by 2030.

While Europe doesn't match USA in industrial production capability. We absolutely match (and in cases supercede) USA in technical know how, innovation and hi-tech. Silicon valley is full of European (and Indian) brains. Those guys are only in USA for the money. They, pretty much, all jump at the chance to come home and build military gadgets.

While European high end talent can't make as much money in Europe as they could in USA, Europe is a much nicer place to live. So there's that going for our military innovation capabilities.