steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
How are the Oilers doing?
Marxism
- Thread starter steve_bank
- Start date
Some fan (and player) disgruntlement over the trading away of the two goalies who took us to the Stanley Cup Final two years in a row. We still have the two best forwards in the world. We're hoping to see a Germany-Canada Mens Olympic Final so we can see McDavid and Draisaitl face off against each other. Some serious Heated Rivalry vibe there.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Arm chair anarchists and Marxists have no clue as to how the system they want to tear down actually works and what it provides to themselves personally,
No understanding of the scale and complexity of how global and national economics works.
Neither does Trump. He is tinkering with processes he does not understand.
How is it tat in the industrialized west grocery stores are filled 24/7? How does that happen in detail?
The supermarket and food supply chain as it is today did not exist when I was born in 1951.
Joe Marxist wants to tear it down, how would he make it happen reliably and efficiently?
Slogans? Ideology?
It is easy to believe in an ideal cause.
The new mayor of NYC calling himself a democratic stoicism says he wants to provide city run grocery stores in NYC, says it will lower food prices. Not likely.
His major accopihmnet was orgabizng a protest or something.
No understanding of the scale and complexity of how global and national economics works.
Neither does Trump. He is tinkering with processes he does not understand.
How is it tat in the industrialized west grocery stores are filled 24/7? How does that happen in detail?
The supermarket and food supply chain as it is today did not exist when I was born in 1951.
Joe Marxist wants to tear it down, how would he make it happen reliably and efficiently?
Slogans? Ideology?
It is easy to believe in an ideal cause.
The new mayor of NYC calling himself a democratic stoicism says he wants to provide city run grocery stores in NYC, says it will lower food prices. Not likely.
His major accopihmnet was orgabizng a protest or something.
Most people, including many socialists, have only a superficial understanding of the development of socialism/communism. The period of armed revolution is over. State capitalism has established hegemony over the whole Earth. The global system of production and trade has also established hegemony. This system will integrate further and further until there is a truly universal system of supply and service. The current system is under the direction of the nation states via the management class. Eventually, as worker consciousness improves, the system will operate on the basis of distributed and democratic power.
I'm not terribly familiar with the grocery situation in NYC, but it must be somewhat dire if Mamdani thinks it needs to be addressed by city-owned outlets. Here in Canada, we have plenty of experience with socialist administration, and I don't think we've ever had to resort to government grocery stores.
I googled "groceries in New York City". Here is the first article that came up: "How Supply Chain Disruptions Are Impacting NYC Grocery Prices"
The article is a little vague, but it hints at the solution: ordinary people have to raise their consciousness about deficiencies in the current supply system and become pro-active in seeking affordable and nutritious food.
I'm not terribly familiar with the grocery situation in NYC, but it must be somewhat dire if Mamdani thinks it needs to be addressed by city-owned outlets. Here in Canada, we have plenty of experience with socialist administration, and I don't think we've ever had to resort to government grocery stores.
I googled "groceries in New York City". Here is the first article that came up: "How Supply Chain Disruptions Are Impacting NYC Grocery Prices"
The article is a little vague, but it hints at the solution: ordinary people have to raise their consciousness about deficiencies in the current supply system and become pro-active in seeking affordable and nutritious food.
The fundamental issue with capitalism vs communism is when you have a central authority everything tries to do the same "correct" thing. In capitalism with many separate players making slightly different decisions about what is "correct" permits evolution. Communism thinks it's perfect, there is no need for evolution.
Thank you for your contribution, Mr. Pechtel.
The idea of communism is for completely distributed authority established on the basis democratic community control. The crude early implementations of the socialist/communist project have been necessarily centralizing and authoritarian.
Communism represents the final and highest state of human organization. Once the conditions for communism are established, human evolution truly begins in that individuals and the society as a whole will direct all their energies to their own emancipation and full development.
The idea of communism is for completely distributed authority established on the basis democratic community control. The crude early implementations of the socialist/communist project have been necessarily centralizing and authoritarian.
Communism represents the final and highest state of human organization. Once the conditions for communism are established, human evolution truly begins in that individuals and the society as a whole will direct all their energies to their own emancipation and full development.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Several problems here. First off, it will take a very very powerful leader with an outstanding and brutal army in order to get to the "highest state of human organization". And then what makes this person and his henchmen to step down to the evolved society? Secondly, every society will reach this state of "emancipation" at different times. How do you solve that? Finally, if it is possible, why haven't the communists demonstrated it yet? They could get together, buy a small island, set up their nirvana, and demonstrates that it can work. What is stopping them? I'd love to see them at least try.
Thank you for your contribution, Mr. Bosch.
The first attempts at socialist/communist government did indeed require a very powerful leader with an outstanding and brutal army. However, these attempts did not constitute anything near the "highest state of human organization." They were merely the first steps toward that goal. The global situation is now one of nation states all more or less dictatorial and based on state monopoly of violence. This is state capitalism. To advance beyond state capitalism, workers will have to raise their own consciousness. As Marx put it, "As philosophy finds in the proletariat its material weapon, so the proletariat finds in philosophy its spiritual weapon."
Communism only truly works to the extent that it is universal. The whole of humanity must embrace it. Until that happy day, we must reconcile ourselves to state capitalism.
There is the allure of what Constantin Brunner calls the "Gemeinschaft der Geistigen," a community of those who embrace the idea of a future for humanity based on the spirit and its three modes of expression: art, philosophy and mysticism. Such a community would furnish for the broad mass of mankind a model and a point of point of attraction.
The first attempts at socialist/communist government did indeed require a very powerful leader with an outstanding and brutal army. However, these attempts did not constitute anything near the "highest state of human organization." They were merely the first steps toward that goal. The global situation is now one of nation states all more or less dictatorial and based on state monopoly of violence. This is state capitalism. To advance beyond state capitalism, workers will have to raise their own consciousness. As Marx put it, "As philosophy finds in the proletariat its material weapon, so the proletariat finds in philosophy its spiritual weapon."
Communism only truly works to the extent that it is universal. The whole of humanity must embrace it. Until that happy day, we must reconcile ourselves to state capitalism.
There is the allure of what Constantin Brunner calls the "Gemeinschaft der Geistigen," a community of those who embrace the idea of a future for humanity based on the spirit and its three modes of expression: art, philosophy and mysticism. Such a community would furnish for the broad mass of mankind a model and a point of point of attraction.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Yes, the above in bold is one of the reasons why we'll never have true communism. The world just would never come together and universally agree to not attack each other and all adopt communism at the same time. We are all different with different goals and motivations. You value a community is enlightened in art, philsophy, and mysticism. I value time with my children, the seattle mariners and Oregon ducks, and snow skiing. I'm not picking on you here. My point is that we all are different. And that is a good thing.
But back up to my earlier point, does it discourage you that there has never been a successful communist society on a small scale? And would you agree that if something doesn't work on a small scale, it's not going to work on a large scale.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
We naturally form peer groups and hierarchical structures.
The free market system is highly distributed authority.
L:ike a large flock of flying birds appear to in conscious coordination, the economic system seems organized and controlled, but it is not.
Decisions in the economy are made locally. Hard to put it into words if you have not seen it. The federal and state governments do not have a lot of direct control over the economy, not nearly as much as some think.
The free market system is highly distributed authority.
L:ike a large flock of flying birds appear to in conscious coordination, the economic system seems organized and controlled, but it is not.
Decisions in the economy are made locally. Hard to put it into words if you have not seen it. The federal and state governments do not have a lot of direct control over the economy, not nearly as much as some think.
I appreciate your depth of thought, Mr. Bosch.
In the communist view, all mankind will eventually act under the guidance of reason and the intellect. This may take millennia.
Through a dialectic process, reason makes use of the selfishness of the individual to advance the cause of universal altruism. Here is Waton on this:
There have always been somewhat successful somewhat communist societies: hippy communes, monasteries and nunneries, Amish communities. Universal communism is not interested in these, however. Universal communism is concerned only with mankind as whole. Mankind is here understood as single individual that evolves from primitive communism through capitalism, state capitalism and socialism to universal communism.
The progress of mankind toward communism is slow, but is taking place. Anyone who cares to do so can study Marx, Hegel and Spinoza and lead through their writings a more-or-less communist existence. The really important next step is the organic development of the community of the spiritually-minded. This community would act as a cybernetic power, guiding humanity toward its destiny. The "Christian" Right is the black mirror of this.
In the communist view, all mankind will eventually act under the guidance of reason and the intellect. This may take millennia.
Through a dialectic process, reason makes use of the selfishness of the individual to advance the cause of universal altruism. Here is Waton on this:
There have always been somewhat successful somewhat communist societies: hippy communes, monasteries and nunneries, Amish communities. Universal communism is not interested in these, however. Universal communism is concerned only with mankind as whole. Mankind is here understood as single individual that evolves from primitive communism through capitalism, state capitalism and socialism to universal communism.
The progress of mankind toward communism is slow, but is taking place. Anyone who cares to do so can study Marx, Hegel and Spinoza and lead through their writings a more-or-less communist existence. The really important next step is the organic development of the community of the spiritually-minded. This community would act as a cybernetic power, guiding humanity toward its destiny. The "Christian" Right is the black mirror of this.
Thank you for your contribution, Mr. Bank.
There is nothing wrong with peer groups and hierarchic structures other than when they serve to enslave and oppress others. There is nothing wrong with the market system except for the uncritical assumption that it is "free".
The economic system is evolving. Formerly, it was based on property ownership. Now it is based on state control. Ultimately it will be based on distributed democracy. As such, it will indeed be similar to a flock of birds. In this flock, however, each bird is aware that it is an integral member of the flock and as such recognizes its own duties and rights.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
P
eer groups lead to factions, competition and divergent behavior, norms, attitudes, and beliefs.
Yo0u can not put a lid on our imaginations and competitive instincts. A global conformity is not possible.
China maintains its political and cultural conformity by rigid state control of school content and control of pubic speech, with harsh penalties.
The USA and wstern systems in general are the opoite. Freedom of beliefs of any kind, with requiret we act politically in the common interstice.
Noe that in and a there are separatist movements in Quebec and Alberta.
Alberta sees to claim its economy carries Canada and they do not get enough in return. Quebec is about culture.
As your first step, make Canada communist. Get everyone to acquiesce.
eer groups lead to factions, competition and divergent behavior, norms, attitudes, and beliefs.
Yo0u can not put a lid on our imaginations and competitive instincts. A global conformity is not possible.
China maintains its political and cultural conformity by rigid state control of school content and control of pubic speech, with harsh penalties.
The USA and wstern systems in general are the opoite. Freedom of beliefs of any kind, with requiret we act politically in the common interstice.
Noe that in and a there are separatist movements in Quebec and Alberta.
Alberta sees to claim its economy carries Canada and they do not get enough in return. Quebec is about culture.
As your first step, make Canada communist. Get everyone to acquiesce.
I have been involved with the socialist Alberta NDP since 1971 when my father ran. My father had been the coordinator of the Calgary anti-Vietnam War committee. I remember being woken up and moved from bed to make room for draft dodgers that my father had just gotten over the border.
In 1971, the NDP won only one provincial seat. likewise in 1975 and 1979. In 1982, my won a seat in Edmonton (my parents divorced in 1971 and my mother remarried to a prominent New Democrat). In 1986, my stepfather led the party and elected 16 members, including my father. Both my father and stepfather were re-elected in 1989, but all New Democrats were defeated in 1991. There followed a period of re-building and then in 2015 the NDP won a majority government under the leadership of Rachel Notley, the daughter of Grant Notely who led the party from 1968 to his death in an airplane crash in 1984. I was the chairman of the Alberta New Democratic Youth in the early 1980s. The NDP now holds 38 of 47 seats and is polling competitively. The separatist movement is our version of MAGA. We will crush it.
My point is that Alberta has moved during my lifetime to accept socialism as the way forward. Canada as a whole is more-or-less soft socialist. The flock has chosen its direction.
In 1971, the NDP won only one provincial seat. likewise in 1975 and 1979. In 1982, my won a seat in Edmonton (my parents divorced in 1971 and my mother remarried to a prominent New Democrat). In 1986, my stepfather led the party and elected 16 members, including my father. Both my father and stepfather were re-elected in 1989, but all New Democrats were defeated in 1991. There followed a period of re-building and then in 2015 the NDP won a majority government under the leadership of Rachel Notley, the daughter of Grant Notely who led the party from 1968 to his death in an airplane crash in 1984. I was the chairman of the Alberta New Democratic Youth in the early 1980s. The NDP now holds 38 of 47 seats and is polling competitively. The separatist movement is our version of MAGA. We will crush it.
My point is that Alberta has moved during my lifetime to accept socialism as the way forward. Canada as a whole is more-or-less soft socialist. The flock has chosen its direction.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Canada is very capitalistic. According to WIKI, they currently have 1.3 million for profit companies. Their economy is similar to the US, but they have a bigger safety net, higher taxes, more government services. They have a very robust middle class. I think that their economy actually hurts the cause for communism because their middle and lower workers are in a better position and are happier.
Now, technically speaking, Canada, like all countries, is established on the basis of state capitalism. However, all countries show different levels of socialism within that context, and here Canada is fairly advanced, boasting a substantial system of social services and income support. The socialist NDP routinely forms government in provinces and the federal NDP is a long-time coalition partner with the Liberals. The idea of socialism is not foreign or hateful to the vast majority of Canadians. Tommy Douglas, one of the early leaders of the socialist movement in Canada (whom I met and spoke with on a couple of occasions) is routinely acknowledged in polls as the greatest Canadian.
Note that all of your successful communist societies are small. The size limit is the size limit of the number of people we actively know.
There's also the problem that communism assumes perfect knowledge--impossible in a world where things are being discovered.
Elixir
Made in America
Right. That’s why it works very well on the scale of a tribe that is small enough that everyone knows everyone else. The “problem” is that it ONLY works on that scale.
^Primitive communism worked on a small scale. Capitalism replaced primitive communism and established a global economic system. Universal communism will replace universal capitalism.
Physical science is largely complete. What remains is the full development of the human sciences. Once mankind attains to an adequate understanding of itself, universal communism is established.
Physical science is largely complete. What remains is the full development of the human sciences. Once mankind attains to an adequate understanding of itself, universal communism is established.