Christians - who convinced you of the truth of god/jesus?

[GenesisNemesis]

Back to the Genesis nonsense and the idea all other critters are inferior to us humans. creation.

There is us and all the soulless 'dumb' animals. The natural world is ours alone o exploit.

Religion, philosophy(ethics and morality) are thin veneers over who we are.

Screeching feces flinging chimps with nuclear weapons.

It is contemporary materialist monism that denies the existence of souls in humans or anywhere else.

What is a soul?

Hence its atavistic depiction of mankind as "feces flinging chimps."

Nah, we are drone- and bomb-flinging chimps. And yes, we are chimps.

The Bible contains the foundation for rational management of the biosphere.

You can’t make this shit up.

Yet another thing NoRobots gets wrong every time. Materialism doesn't "deny the existence of the soul", rather, it is simply that the soul isn't a necessary hypothesis under a materialist framework. And, of course, that the soul always remains a vague and undefined notion.

 

[No Robots]

Yet another thing NoRobots gets wrong every time. Materialism doesn't "deny the existence of the soul", rather, it is simply that the soul isn't a necessary hypothesis under a materialist framework.

I used the term materialist monism, ie. the position that only matter exists aka physicalism. If only matter exists, then anything immaterial, by definition, does not exist.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Yet another thing NoRobots gets wrong every time. Materialism doesn't "deny the existence of the soul", rather, it is simply that the soul isn't a necessary hypothesis under a materialist framework.

I used the term materialist monism, ie. the position that only matter exists aka physicalism. If only matter exists, then anything immaterial, by definition, does not exist.

And yet the physicalists I know of would say the soul has not been demonstrated to exist, they don't simply hand-wave it away as you seem to be asserting they do. Where's the hard evidence that the soul exists?

 

[pood]

What is even the definition of a soul?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

What is even the definition of a soul?

Yeah I don't think we're going to get a definition.

 

[No Robots]

And yet the physicalists I know of would say the soul has not been demonstrated to exist, they don't simply hand-wave it away as you seem to be asserting they do. Where's the hard evidence that the soul exists?

It amounts to the same thing. If you assert that there is no proof of the existence of the soul, you will act as though the soul does not exist.

 

[No Robots]

As for the definition of the soul, nothing could be simpler. The idea that constitutes the essence of a thing is its soul. Everything that exists originates as an idea that then manifests itself materially.

 

[pood]

And yet the physicalists I know of would say the soul has not been demonstrated to exist, they don't simply hand-wave it away as you seem to be asserting they do. Where's the hard evidence that the soul exists?

It amounts to the same thing. If you assert that there is no proof of the existence of the soul, you will act as though the soul does not exist.

No, we will just await evidence for the existence of a soul, starting with a definition of it.

 

[pood]

As for the definition of the soul, nothing could be simpler. The idea that constitutes the essence of a thing is its soul. Everything that exists originates as an idea that then manifests itself materially.

What is the essence of a thing? Do you mean Platonic or Aristotelian essences, or something else altogether? Can you explain? What does it mean to say that everything that exists originates as an idea? Whose idea? How?

 

[No Robots]

As for the definition of the soul, nothing could be simpler. The idea that constitutes the essence of a thing is its soul. Everything that exists originates as an idea that then manifests itself materially.

What is the essence of a thing? Do you mean Platonic or Aristotelian essences, or something else altogether? Can you explain? What does it mean to say that everything that exists originates as an idea? Whose idea? How?

Yes, something similar to Plato. The ideas originate with God. This is all laid out in Spinoza's work. Spinoza uses the terms natura naturans and natura naturata. The former is nature as creative power and the latter is the material expression of that power. Each particular thing is a particular manifestation of creative power.

 

[pood]

As for the definition of the soul, nothing could be simpler. The idea that constitutes the essence of a thing is its soul. Everything that exists originates as an idea that then manifests itself materially.

What is the essence of a thing? Do you mean Platonic or Aristotelian essences, or something else altogether? Can you explain? What does it mean to say that everything that exists originates as an idea? Whose idea? How?

Yes, something similar to Plato. The ideas originate with God. This is all laid out in Spinoza's work. Spinoza uses the terms natura naturans and natura naturata. The former is nature as creative power and the latter is the material expression of that power. Each particular thing is a particular manifestation of creative power.

Evidence to support this?

 

[pood]

For you, is nature just a synonym for God?

 

[No Robots]

No, we will just await evidence for the existence of a soul, starting with a definition of it.

You most definitely wil not wait. You will proceed to manage the biosphere as if it were souless, a mere mechanism. Shameful.

 

[No Robots]

For you, is nature just a synonym for God?

Of course. However, nature is not merely matter. It is also thought. In fact, thought is the essence of nature, and the phenomenal world is the material expression of nature's thought.

 

[pood]

No, we will just await evidence for the existence of a soul, starting with a definition of it.

You most definitely wil not wait. You will proceed to manage the biosphere as if it were souless, a mere mechanism. Shameful.

Here is what you said:

The Bible contains the foundation for rational management of the biosphere.

Just insane.

I, personally, leave as a little a carbon footprint as possible, and feed animals, which your silly god does not do.

 

[pood]

For you, is nature just a synonym for God?

Of course. However, nature is not merely matter. It is also thought. In fact, thought is the essence of nature, and the phenomenal world is the material expression of nature's thought.

I am not unsympathetic to this idea, which is metaphysical idealism. I would not characterize myself as a physicalist monist, but am open to other possibilities.

 

[No Robots]

Here is what you said:

The Bible contains the foundation for rational management of the biosphere.

Just insane.

I, personally, leave as a little a carbon footprint as possible, and feed animals, which your silly god does not do.

I am not alone in my insanity. Here is rabbi Arthur Green:

“Hear O Israel” --“Listen, my fellow-Jews!” “Being is our God; Being is one!”…. The only value of monotheism is to make you realize that all being, including every creature – and that means the rock and the blade of grass in your garden as well as your pet lizard and your human neighbor next door – are all one in origin. You come from the same place. You were created in the same great act of love. God takes delight in each form that emerges and bestows God’s own grace upon it. Therefore – and this is the “payoff” line, the only one that really counts: Treat them that way! They are all God’s creatures; they exist only because of the divine presence, the same divine presence that makes you exist. This realization calls upon you to get to know them! Get to love them! Discover the unique divine gift within each of them! Live in amazement at the divine light strewn throughout the world. That’s what it means to be a religious human being.

Materialist monism is incapable of adequately managing the biosphere. What is required is a spiritual approach. Even biologist Stuart Kauffman recognizes this:

[A]gnostic and atheist “secular humanists” have been quietly taught that spirituality is foolish or, at best, questionable. Some secular humanists are spiritual but most are not. We are thus cut off from a deep aspect of our humanity. Humans have led intricate and meaningful spiritual lives for thousands of years, and many secular humanists are bereft of it. Reinventing the sacred as our response to the emergent creativity in the universe can open secular humanists to the legitimacy of their own spirituality.--Breaking The Galilean Spell

 

[GenesisNemesis]

For you, is nature just a synonym for God?

Of course. However, nature is not merely matter. It is also thought. In fact, thought is the essence of nature, and the phenomenal world is the material expression of nature's thought.

I am not unsympathetic to this idea, which is metaphysical idealism. I would not characterize myself as a physicalist monist, but am open to other possibilities.

I am wholly unsympathetic to the idea that "spirituality is missing" from skeptics' lives, though.

 

[No Robots]

I do not say that every skeptic needs to develop spiritually. Nor do I object to criticizing people's spirituality. What I do say is that to campaign against the very idea of spirituality is anti-humanist and ultimately inimical to the rational management of the biosphere.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I do not say that every skeptic needs to develop spiritually. Nor do I object to criticizing people's spirituality. What I do say is that to campaign against the very idea of spirituality is anti-humanist and ultimately inimical to the rational management of the biosphere.

That explains why Christian fundamentalists are supporting measures that do nothing whatsoever to help the biosphere.