What really happened in Abottabad

[untermensche]

You do come across as someone who will just believe whatever they are told.

How the flying fuck did you get to that conclusion?

This is just what I say when people toe the line of government propaganda.

If those SEALs wanted to capture bin Laden it is absurd to think they couldn't have easily captured him.

Yes and no. In and out as fast as possible. It isn't like they tried this five times before in a video game and now know where all the enemies are and where bin Laden is and where the secret loot is hidden. But yeah, if there was a directive to get him out alive, it could be a possibility that it could be done.

Of course as fast as possible, but brain surgery is done as fast as possible too.

And it is faster to escort with purpose a living person out than carry a dead one.

But those were not their orders and they did what people in the military do. They followed orders.

Yeah, I alluded to that in the statement you quoted, but then got this funky idea that I didn't understand what actually happened.

What happened was a deliberate assassination.

A so-called incredibly valuable asset was deliberately killed.

What did he know that the US government had no interest in being exposed?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

How the flying fuck did you get to that conclusion?

This is just what I say when people toe the line of government propaganda.

OK, so it is just some accusation you make when you don't feel like discussing stuff no more, even when that stuff is something you actually agreed with but were too lazy to take the time to read the post.

If those SEALs wanted to capture bin Laden it is absurd to think they couldn't have easily captured him.

Yes and no. In and out as fast as possible. It isn't like they tried this five times before in a video game and now know where all the enemies are and where bin Laden is and where the secret loot is hidden. But yeah, if there was a directive to get him out alive, it could be a possibility that it could be done.

Of course as fast as possible, but brain surgery is done as fast as possible too.

And it is faster to escort with purpose a living person out than carry a dead one.

You have to guard a live person. A dead person while being dead weight, doesn't try to get away. There are benefits over a live capture.

But those were not their orders and they did what people in the military do. They followed orders.

Yeah, I alluded to that in the statement you quoted, but then got this funky idea that I didn't understand what actually happened.

What happened was a deliberate assassination.

High likelihood, yes. I said so, but then you claimed I only follow the Government version, which means you are a fucking mole for the Government... you fucking mole!

A so-called incredibly valuable asset was deliberately killed.

Who said that bin Laden was an "incredibly valuable asset"?!

What did he know that the US government had no interest in being exposed?

Probably Afghanistan level shit back in the Soviet invasion days. Who knows what else between his connections with powerful Sauds and the W Admin back in the 80's. It was probably more embarrassing than anything else. The real trouble was probably the logistics of a trial, incarceration, and a likely death penalty phase.

 

[untermensche]

Who said that bin Laden was an "incredibly valuable asset"?!

He was alleged to be the leader of al Qaeda. If that's not a valuable asset then there are no valuable assets in this "war on terrorism".

...The real trouble was probably the logistics of a trial, incarceration, and a likely death penalty phase...

I don't assume that just because the US grabbed him that means the US should try him.

Somebody like bin Laden should have been tried at The Hague. His alleged crimes were worldwide

 

[tupac chopra]

Trials are where actually evidence is required.

Any free person should want the claims of governments tested in trials.

Slaves just bow as the master tells them what is the truth.

So lemme guess - you're one of those folks that thinks the Bin Laden tapes were faked, right? beams?

How could anyone believe that the fake tape of BinLaden that surfaced in 2001 was actually him.
The guy in the tape didn't even really look like BinLaden.

But somehow you believe that Bin laden just happened conveniently to make a video of himself confessing to being behind 911 and then leave the tape to be found.

Bwa hahahah hahaha hahaha hahaha ..

How could anyone swallow such obvious rubbish?

 

[Deepak]

So lemme guess - you're one of those folks that thinks the Bin Laden tapes were faked, right? beams?

How could anyone believe that the fake tape of BinLaden that surfaced in 2001 was actually him.
The guy in the tape didn't even really look like BinLaden.

But somehow you believe that Bin laden just happened conveniently to make a video of himself confessing to being behind 911 and then leave the tape to be found.

Bwa hahahah hahaha hahaha hahaha ..

How could anyone swallow such obvious rubbish?

And the 2004 tape too? And the 2006 one?

I'm sure Al-Jazeera was in cahoots with the western infidels when they wrote their transcript of the 04 tape? http://www.aljazeera.com/archive/2004/11/200849163336457223.html

How deep does this conspiracy run?

 

[Harry Bosch]

So lemme guess - you're one of those folks that thinks the Bin Laden tapes were faked, right? beams?

How could anyone believe that the fake tape of BinLaden that surfaced in 2001 was actually him.
The guy in the tape didn't even really look like BinLaden.

But somehow you believe that Bin laden just happened conveniently to make a video of himself confessing to being behind 911 and then leave the tape to be found.

Bwa hahahah hahaha hahaha hahaha ..

How could anyone swallow such obvious rubbish?

I think that you are drinking too much vodka buddy!

 

[tupac chopra]

How could anyone believe that the fake tape of BinLaden that surfaced in 2001 was actually him.
The guy in the tape didn't even really look like BinLaden.

But somehow you believe that Bin laden just happened conveniently to make a video of himself confessing to being behind 911 and then leave the tape to be found.

Bwa hahahah hahaha hahaha hahaha ..

How could anyone swallow such obvious rubbish?

And the 2004 tape too? And the 2006 one?

I didn't mention those. But as you seem to be suffering under the delusion your government wouldn't lie to you about Bin Laden, the 2001 tape is enough

Nice attempt to change the subject away from the fake 2001 video your government fed to you though

 

[Deepak]

And the 2004 tape too? And the 2006 one?

I didn't mention those. But as you seem to be suffering under the delusion your government wouldn't lie to you about Bin Laden, the 2001 tape is enough

Nice attempt to change the subject away from the fake 2001 video your government fed to you though

You read the transcript I posted, right? The one where he again admitted to planning the 9/11 attack?

In addition to being absurd, your claim of a fake tape is immaterial.

Z0mg!!1! One of the dozen confessions was fake!!!

 

[tupac chopra]

How could anyone believe that the fake tape of BinLaden that surfaced in 2001 was actually him.
The guy in the tape didn't even really look like BinLaden.

But somehow you believe that Bin laden just happened conveniently to make a video of himself confessing to being behind 911 and then leave the tape to be found.

Bwa hahahah hahaha hahaha hahaha ..

How could anyone swallow such obvious rubbish?

I think that you are drinking too much vodka buddy!

Suuuure. Bin Laden just happened to make grainy a video of himself confessing to 911 and leave it lying around where the CIA just happened to find it.

 

[tupac chopra]

In addition to being absurd, your claim of a fake tape is immaterial.

It's very relevant. It is proof that your government won't hesitate to lie to you about Bin Laden, and will go to great lengths to do so.

 

[Deepak]

I think that you are drinking too much vodka buddy!

Suuuure. Bin Laden just happened to make grainy a video of himself confessing to 911 and leave it lying around where the CIA just happened to find it.

I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.

The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced.

I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.

The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.

In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.

And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/113/4/4/facepalm_inception___detailed_photo_mosaic_by_zantaff-d62pgmc.jpg

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So lemme guess - you're one of those folks that thinks the Bin Laden tapes were faked, right? beams?

How could anyone believe that the fake tape of BinLaden that surfaced in 2001 was actually him.
The guy in the tape didn't even really look like BinLaden.

But somehow you believe that Bin laden just happened conveniently to make a video of himself confessing to being behind 911 and then leave the tape to be found.

Bwa hahahah hahaha hahaha hahaha ..

How could anyone swallow such obvious rubbish?

There are a couple minor things to keep in mind. The tape was relatively damning to Sauds. Why would the Bush Admin create something that'd lose face for the Sauds?

 

[untermensche]

Nobody has to think the tape was fake or doctored to think that it was very important to put bin Laden on trial.

Putting people on trial is what separates you from a terrorist.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Nobody has to think the tape was fake or doctored to think that it was very important to put bin Laden on trial.

Changing the subject?

Putting people on trial is what separates you from a terrorist.

I'm pretty certain there are other things as well. Additionally, we have tried and convicted numerous terrorists.

 

[untermensche]

Changing the subject?

I don't have a clue what subject you think I'm supposed to continually address.

Putting people on trial is what separates you from a terrorist.

I'm pretty certain there are other things as well. Additionally, we have tried and convicted numerous terrorists.

Again, I don't recognize the right of the US to decide all matters.

How many of these trials were in courts except very special US courts with very special restrictions on what the defense could do and say?

How many of these so-called trials were in international courts?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't have a clue what subject you think I'm supposed to continually address.

Putting people on trial is what separates you from a terrorist.

I'm pretty certain there are other things as well. Additionally, we have tried and convicted numerous terrorists.

Again, I don't recognize the right of the US to decide all matters.

The WTC bombing, 9/11 were American based attacks. How would any of these make the US not applicable for a trial?

How many of these trials were in courts except very special US courts with very special restrictions on what the defense could do and say?

Moussaoi, Reid, WTC bombing cell, the DC plane attempted bomber were in open trials. I don't remember offhand for KSM.

 

[Deepak]

How many of these trials were in courts except very special US courts with very special restrictions on what the defense could do and say?

Moussaoi, Reid, WTC bombing cell, the DC plane attempted bomber were in open trials. I don't remember offhand for KSM.

The KSM trial bounced from military, to civilian, back to military court - though in all cases journalists were able to observe the proceedings.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Moussaoi, Reid, WTC bombing cell, the DC plane attempted bomber were in open trials. I don't remember offhand for KSM.

The KSM trial bounced from military, to civilian, back to military court - though in all cases journalists were able to observe the proceedings.

Thanks. Gets a little hard to remember what happened with what trial seeing we've had a bunch. Now if untermenche wanted to talk about the legality of drone strikes, I think they'd have an argument there.

 

[untermensche]

Again, I don't recognize the right of the US to decide all matters.

The WTC bombing, 9/11 were American based attacks. How would any of these make the US not applicable for a trial?

The US so-called justice system is the problem. The justice system that declared torture legal. The justice system that holds many prisoners in Guantanamo for, I guess eternity, without even the hope of a trial.

People who actually care about justice and not just seeing the US victorious in kangaroo courts should demand these trials be held in neutral countries.

And of course bin Laden's crimes were in other places besides the US. It is only the US that thinks 911 is somehow special.

Moussaoi, Reid, WTC bombing cell, the DC plane attempted bomber were in open trials. I don't remember offhand for KSM.

An open trial does not mean a fair trial. An open trial in a corrupt system is a corrupted trial.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And ultimately - to what end? What would a trial do other than shift where people see conspiracies?

Trials are where actually evidence is required.

Any free person should want the claims of governments tested in trials.

Slaves just bow as the master tells them what is the truth.

Normally enemy soldiers are not given trials. The usual procedure is to shoot one when you see him. Complex missions are sometimes laid on to go after enemy commanders, still no trials.