"God cannot create a square circle"

[Keith&Co.]

And another thing. Why does there need to be a "bird" on board? He already has a dove and a raven. Though, it does seem interesting, that even the story itself indicates that Noah took on subspecies, not merely kinds. It isn't as if God commanded Noah to get doves and ravens as a special task.

THAT one makes sense if you're a James Bond Fan. Older Bond, anyway, where they make that trip to Q Branch and get the foreshadowing?

Noah's handlers knew that he'd need a dove and a raven at the end in order to get the olive branch and complete the story. So that was part of his initial load-out.
Get 14 birds, of the bird kind, that will survive and breed and evolve into the whole bird kind, AND get a dove and a raven. And this radio that fits in your sandal. When the ark comes to a stop, and you're set up for the bloody sacrifices, call God on the radio, he'll come savor the smoke. Your call sign with be 'survivor guilt,' god's will be 'genocide.'

They have to list the two birds because they're in the story, and they can't claim that the whole of the bird kind evolved them during the trip. But they don't want to say that the dove and the raven fucked and evolved penguin, magpies and ostriches as offspring, though the color scheme would certainly make sense.

 

[atrib]

Now if you believe that life somehow appeared through natural means apart from God, that would be very great faith.

Or it's just considering other possibilities, which you don't do.

I don't mind other possibilities. I guess we have to wait until science can say something definitive about them. Until that time, current proposals remain valid.

In order to claim that life was created by a supernatural entity you would first need to demonstrate that said entity exists and has the ability to create life. Or at the very minimum, you would have to demonstrate that it would be impossible for life to come about through natural processes. You have done neither.

God is a placeholder invented by our ancestors who did not know any better. With every passing day we learn a little bit more about the universe we live in, and the holes in which you can hide your god get a little bit smaller.

 

[atrib]

There is no faith in nature. Nature will not intervene if we pray. We can't speak of the will of nature. Or condemn certain acts (other than perpetual motion) because nature forbids it. Nature just is. There is no faith about it.

Sure there is. People have faith that nature (natural laws) can lead to the creation of life that evolution can then manipulate. People have faith that evolution - mutation, natural selection, etc. - could actually take some simple form of life and create, over time, the variety of life we observe today. People who adhere to evolutionary processes as the force behind all life have a belief system based on nothing but faith.

Wrong again! We don't have faith that natural processes caused the diversity of life we observe on this planet. We KNOW what these natural processes and mechanisms are and can describe them in great detail. This is called science. The science that specifically deals with the mechanisms that caused the diversity of life on this planet is called evolutionary biology. We know a lot of stuff that the authors of the Bible did not know. You should try to keep up, especially if you are going to be debating on an online forum.

 

[atrib]

The "models" are created by evolutionists and are useful and productive in justifying evolution because that is their purpose. There is nothing provisional about belief in evolution - the purpose for evolution (for simplicity, the macro part) is to explain life without God.

Hate to tell you this, but you are wrong again. Evolution is a natural process, it has no purpose. The study of evolution by modern humans is driven by our curiosity and our desire to better understand the universe we live in. Disproving your imaginary god has nothing to do with it at all.

Evolutionists are blind to evidence that would indicate that God had to create life.

Wrong. There is no evidence that would indicate that your preferred god exists, much less he/she/it created the universe and life. Prove me wrong. Show us the evidence.

There is still no viable explanation (despite all the creative imaginings of the evolutionists) for the appearance of life nor of the ability of evolutionary processes to take one life form and create the great variety of life we observe today.

I don't know how life could have come about, therefore, my preferred supercreature did it. That is not a good argument.

That doesn't deter the evolutionist - he has a belief system that he will not give up and that belief system is the source of his faith - a very strong faith.

Wrong. We have evidence. Unlike you.

 

[rhutchin]

There is no faith in nature. Nature will not intervene if we pray. We can't speak of the will of nature. Or condemn certain acts (other than perpetual motion) because nature forbids it. Nature just is. There is no faith about it.

Sure there is. People have faith that nature (natural laws) can lead to the creation of life that evolution can then manipulate. People have faith that evolution - mutation, natural selection, etc. - could actually take some simple form of life and create, over time, the variety of life we observe today. People who adhere to evolutionary processes as the force behind all life have a belief system based on nothing but faith.

Wrong again! We don't have faith that natural processes caused the diversity of life we observe on this planet. We KNOW what these natural processes and mechanisms are and can describe them in great detail. This is called science. The science that specifically deals with the mechanisms that caused the diversity of life on this planet is called evolutionary biology. We know a lot of stuff that the authors of the Bible did not know. You should try to keep up, especially if you are going to be debating on an online forum.

Evolutionary biology has put forth speculations about how biological processes could take some imaginary first life form and create the diversity of life we observe today. Lacking are the empirical experiments to back up those speculations and actually demonstrate that those speculations are valid.

 

[rhutchin]

Now if you believe that life somehow appeared through natural means apart from God, that would be very great faith.

Or it's just considering other possibilities, which you don't do.

I don't mind other possibilities. I guess we have to wait until science can say something definitive about them. Until that time, current proposals remain valid.

In order to claim that life was created by a supernatural entity you would first need to demonstrate that said entity exists and has the ability to create life. Or at the very minimum, you would have to demonstrate that it would be impossible for life to come about through natural processes. You have done neither.

God is a placeholder invented by our ancestors who did not know any better. With every passing day we learn a little bit more about the universe we live in, and the holes in which you can hide your god get a little bit smaller.

God's existence is demonstrated in the Bible through the accounts of His interaction with people. That the universe exists is also testimony to His existence.

 

[rhutchin]

Why does there need to be a "bird" on board? He already has a dove and a raven. Though, it does seem interesting, that even the story itself indicates that Noah took on subspecies, not merely kinds. It isn't as if God commanded Noah to get doves and ravens as a special task.

Maybe no bird other than the dove and the raven. Genetics research will have to sort out the need for any additional birds. For now, let's take it off the list.

- - - Updated - - -

Starting with your good research, this is the beginning of the list of the different kinds on the ark:

Humans
Apes
Monkeys
Canine
Feline
Equine
Bovine
Elephant
Giraffe
Dinosaur
Bird
Dove
Raven

This creationist classification system should help you out, rhutchin...

I think your claim is fraudulent, and this is not really the creationist classification system.

 

[Kharakov]

God is a placeholder invented by our ancestors who did not know any better. With every passing day we learn a little bit more about the universe we live in, and the holes in which you can hide your god get a little bit smaller.

God's existence is demonstrated in the Bible through the accounts of His interaction with people. That the universe exists is also testimony to His existence.

More and more, like attrib said, the gaps in which one can hide from true knowledge are growing smaller. God's existence will be revealed, and it will be revealed that it is only bad attitude that causes one to deny the existence of God- there is work to be done, but this is no reason to disbelieve.

And the real question should be: Can God create a square doughnut?

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3ZcZ2h4Ths[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Keith&Co.]

God's existence will be revealed, and it will be revealed that it is only bad attitude that causes one to deny the existence of God- there is work to be done, but this is no reason to disbelieve.

Self Mutation used to do that a lot, too.
Argue based on evidence that was GOING to be available, some day, after it was discovered. Always reminded me of those mad scientists railing on about how their work would be vindicated, despite the objections of the small-minded leaders of the establishment, once they finished their doomsday device.

But in the end, convincing evidence is still lacking...which is exactly a good reason to disbelieve something, or at least withold belief. Right up there with 'the check is in the mail.'

 

[Rhea]

Evolutionary biology has put forth speculations about how biological processes could take some imaginary first life form and create the diversity of life we observe today. Lacking are the empirical experiments to back up those speculations and actually demonstrate that those speculations are valid.

rhutchin - since you have already demonstrated that beyond a shadow of a doubt you do not understand what evolutionary biology says, claims or uses as evidence, shouldn't you feel rather foolish making statements about what evolutionary biology lacks?

Dude, you _have_ to learn more about what evolutionary biology actually is before you can say anything truthful about it.

Until then, you ARE JUST LIKE EVE telling people what to do based on lies someone else fed you. DUDE! ALL CREATION IS AT STAKE! Do not continue to bear false witness!


Look. You can start your education by forgetting the beginning of life and focusing on the noah story. AS soon as you can understand why the evidence on the planet before you completely debunks the noah story, you will ONLY THEN be able to have a starting point for origins of life. But if you can't even figure out why the existence of 20 species of cats at the time of the pharoahs completely disproves there being only one cat-kind on the boat, then you are like a toddler at the G-8 summit whining why there's no free ice cream for everyone.

 

[Mageth]

God's existence is demonstrated in the Bible through the accounts of His interaction with people.

Circular arguments get you nowhere. Circular arguments based on myth get you nowhere fast.

That the universe exists is also testimony to His existence.

No, it's only "testimony" that the universe exists. The rest is your unsupported assertion, your belief and nothing more.

You got nothin' here, rhutchin.

 

[Mageth]

God's existence will be revealed, and it will be revealed that it is only bad attitude that causes one to deny the existence of God- there is work to be done, but this is no reason to disbelieve.

The lack of evidence you acknowledge is reason to lack belief. Lacking belief for want of evidence is the rational position. Belief in god's existence is unreasonable or irrational. In other words, it's "faith".

 

[Mageth]

Believers confusing their faith with evidence. What else is new?

 

[Mageth]

This creationist classification system should help you out, rhutchin...

I think your claim is fraudulent, and this is not really the creationist classification system.

You're probably right. "The cow says moo" system appears to be far too sophisticated.

 

[Keith&Co.]

You're probably right. "The cow says moo" system appears to be far too sophisticated.

Well, it's not THE creationist taxonomy system. But then, it certainly could be. Since few two creationists seem to share a system, and those that do will still split the animals differently, it makes as much sense as any other attempt to jimmy one up.

 

[rhutchin]

Believers confusing their faith with evidence. What else is new?

If you have evidence, you do not have faith - faith becomes active when evidence is lacking.

 

[rhutchin]

Belief in god's existence is unreasonable or irrational. In other words, it's "faith".

Based on the accounts found in the Bible written by a variety of people over a few thousand years, there is nothing unreasonable or irrational about belief in God's existence.

 

[rhutchin]

Circular arguments get you nowhere. Circular arguments based on myth get you nowhere fast.

Nothing circular about the argument.

No, it's only "testimony" that the universe exists. The rest is your unsupported assertion, your belief and nothing more.

Except that no viable alternative exists to explain the existence of the universe.

 

[rhutchin]

Evolutionary biology has put forth speculations about how biological processes could take some imaginary first life form and create the diversity of life we observe today. Lacking are the empirical experiments to back up those speculations and actually demonstrate that those speculations are valid.

rhutchin - since you have already demonstrated that beyond a shadow of a doubt you do not understand what evolutionary biology says, claims or uses as evidence, shouldn't you feel rather foolish making statements about what evolutionary biology lacks?

Dude, you _have_ to learn more about what evolutionary biology actually is before you can say anything truthful about it.

Until then, you ARE JUST LIKE EVE telling people what to do based on lies someone else fed you. DUDE! ALL CREATION IS AT STAKE! Do not continue to bear false witness!


Look. You can start your education by forgetting the beginning of life and focusing on the noah story. AS soon as you can understand why the evidence on the planet before you completely debunks the noah story, you will ONLY THEN be able to have a starting point for origins of life.

The research does not exist. Enough said.

But if you can't even figure out why the existence of 20 species of cats at the time of the pharoahs completely disproves there being only one cat-kind on the boat, then you are like a toddler at the G-8 summit whining why there's no free ice cream for everyone.

Even you can't explain it, so why bother?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Maybe no bird other than the dove and the raven. Genetics research will have to sort out the need for any additional birds. For now, let's take it off the list.

What about the apes? You list multiple primates.