Are US policy makers actually TRYING to start WW III?

[tupac chopra]

But I never claimed that Obama invaded more countries than Hitler.

Your reply which I quoted clearly questions why there was no commitment to explain how they invaded or attacked.

Which for some reason you seem to think gives you reason to dig your heels in rather than admit you were wrong......whatever.

So..... what I am going to do is start a thread in the appropriate Forum, General World History and submit an OP presenting the claim that the US between 2008 and 2014 waged more wars or attacked more countries than any other "anywhere in the world at any time". .

Sad

 

[laughing dog]

But I never claimed that Obama invaded more countries than Hitler.
Clearly Obama is worse by some metrics...but the nature of "warfare" has changed so much with secret armies, that direct comparisons don't easily work

If that is your position, then clearly when you wrote "

So you think that maaaybe Hitler was worse than Obama. Maaaybe Stalin was worse than Obama, and maaaybe napoleon was. But you're not really sure if they were or not. But you won't actually commit yourself and explain how they invaded or attacked more countries than Obama. You're not doing very well.

, what exactly was your point?

 

[Sabine Grant]

But I never claimed that Obama invaded more countries than Hitler.

Your reply which I quoted clearly questions why there was no commitment to explain how they invaded or attacked.

Which for some reason you seem to think gives you reason to dig your heels in rather than admit you were wrong......whatever.

So..... what I am going to do is start a thread in the appropriate Forum, General World History and submit an OP presenting the claim that the US between 2008 and 2014 waged more wars or attacked more countries than any other "anywhere in the world at any time". .

How sad.

Considering the educational purpose of this board, I am not sure why anyone would think that taking this discussion regarding your claim to GWH is sad. You made a claim which is going to be placed under an educated scrutiny and in the appropriate Forum. Case closed.

 

[tupac chopra]

Considering the educational purpose of this board, I am not sure why anyone would think that taking this discussion regarding your claim to GWH is sad.

It's sad that you don't have anything better to do than misrepresent my claim and start a thread based on that. Don't you think that is sad?

You made a claim which is going to be placed under an educated scrutiny and in the appropriate Forum. Case closed.

what is the claim you think I made?

 

[tupac chopra]

If that is your position, then clearly when you wrote "

So you think that maaaybe Hitler was worse than Obama. Maaaybe Stalin was worse than Obama, and maaaybe napoleon was. But you're not really sure if they were or not. But you won't actually commit yourself and explain how they invaded or attacked more countries than Obama. You're not doing very well.

, what exactly was your point?

Because as I explained, on some metrics Obama is worse. It is difficult to compare them both because the nature of "warfare" has changed.
Obama for example has no qualms about murdering children with his drones. He continues to us them despite the evidence of children and other innocents being killed.
Obama and this administration operates aggressive military operation is in far more countries than Hitler ever did.
The point is that many people are shocked and offended to compare Obama with Hitler or America with Nazi Germany, but when we look at the facts they are not as different as American propaganda suggests.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

If that is your position, then clearly when you wrote "

So you think that maaaybe Hitler was worse than Obama. Maaaybe Stalin was worse than Obama, and maaaybe napoleon was. But you're not really sure if they were or not. But you won't actually commit yourself and explain how they invaded or attacked more countries than Obama. You're not doing very well.

, what exactly was your point?

Because as I explained, on some metrics Obama is worse. It is difficult to compare them both because the nature of "warfare" has changed.
Obama for example has no qualms about murdering children with his drones. He continues to us them despite the evidence of children and other innocents being killed.
Obama and this administration operates aggressive military operation is in far more countries than Hitler ever did.
The point is that many people are shocked and offended to compare Obama with Hitler or America with Nazi Germany, but when we look at the facts they are not as different as American propaganda suggests.

Then why were you saying that you were not making the claim about Obama that you just made?

 

[tupac chopra]

Then why were you saying that you were not making the claim about Obama that you just made?

Tom, if you have a problem spell it out.
But quote me, don't make broad accusations that I can't reply to.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Tom, if you have a problem spell it out.
But quote me, don't make broad accusations that I can't reply to.

I'm talking about the inconsistency between this

But I never claimed that Obama invaded more countries than Hitler.

and this

Obama and this administration operates aggressive military operation is in far more countries than Hitler ever did.

If you have the latter position, why are you getting so out of sorts about people accusing you of the former position?

 

[tupac chopra]

Back to the OP, yes it seems more and more people are seeing that the USA wants war. they don't want peace.
A World War is Beckoning
by JOHN PILGER

But Nato’s military encirclement has accelerated, along with US-orchestrated attacks on ethnic Russians in Ukraine. If Putin can be provoked into coming to their aid, his pre-ordained “pariah” role will justify a Nato-run guerrilla war that is likely to spill into Russia itself.

Instead, Putin has confounded the war party by seeking an accommodation with Washington and the EU, by withdrawing troops from the Ukrainian border and urging ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine to abandon the weekend’s provocative referendum. These Russian-speaking and bilingual people – a third of Ukraine’s population – have long sought a democratic federation that reflects the country’s ethnic diversity and is both autonomous and independent of Moscow. Most are neither “separatists” nor “rebels” but citizens who want to live securely in their homeland.

Like the ruins of Iraq and Afghanistan, Ukraine has been turned into a CIA theme park – run by CIA director John Brennan in Kiev, with “special units” from the CIA and FBI setting up a “security structure” that oversees savage attacks on those who opposed the February coup. Watch the videos, read the eye-witness reports from the massacre in Odessa this month. Bussed fascist thugs burned the trade union headquarters, killing 41 people trapped inside. Watch the police standing by. A doctor described trying to rescue people, “but I was stopped by pro-Ukrainian Nazi radicals. One of them pushed me away rudely, promising that soon me and other Jews of Odessa are going to meet the same fate … I wonder, why the whole world is keeping silent.”

Washington’s role in Ukraine is *different only in its implications for the rest of us. For the first time since the Reagan years, the US is *threatening to take the world to war. With eastern Europe and the Balkans now military outposts of Nato, the last “buffer state” bordering Russia is being torn apart. We in the west are backing neo-Nazis in a country where Ukrainian Nazis backed Hitler.

 

[tupac chopra]

According to John Pilger

According to the great whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, a silent coup has taken place in Washington and rampant militarism now rules. The Pentagon *currently runs “special operations” – secret wars – in 124 countries.

124 countries. whether that is the exact number I don't know...but what ever the number it dwarfs the 15 countries Hitler is claimed to have invaded here.

 

[laughing dog]

According to John Pilger

According to the great whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, a silent coup has taken place in Washington and rampant militarism now rules. The Pentagon *currently runs “special operations” – secret wars – in 124 countries.

124 countries. whether that is the exact number I don't know...but what ever the number it dwarfs the 15 countries Hitler is claimed to have invaded here.

Basing your argument on unsubstantiated "secret" wars is not terribly convincing. Especially since there are not quite 200 countries in the world (depending on the source, 193 to 197), that number, if taken seriously, means the US currently engages in "secret wars" in over 60% of the countries in the world.

 

[angelo]

And we should add the USA to the countries attacked by Hitler. He declared war on the US, not the other way round. Also Britain and France declared war on Hitler. He did not attack them first.

Hitler invaded France, France did not invade Germany. Hitler attacked Great Britain, not the other way around.

Hitler attacked After Britain declared war on Germany! Even then Britain wasn't attacked till after the fall of France and the low countries some months later.

 

[angelo]

Considering the extensive media coverage of Chernobyl which certainly included CNN, I am not sure how anyone can claim that "CNN still does not know where Ukraine is".

I think it's not such a stretch to suggest that CIA learned about Ukraine only recently. CIA director recently visited Ukraine so he knows where it is now.

What evidence do you have that the CIA director did not know where Ukraine is prior to his recent visit in view of your stating " so he knows where it is now"? Considering that a search through the US State Dept.website will reveal a page dedicated to Ukraine covering several dated topics and reports, what is it that the US State Dept would have learned about Ukraine that the CIA would not have?

So this whole mess stems from the ignorance, that's the only explanation why US administration supported neo-nazi coup and why it was so surprised to learn that Crimea was actually populated by pro-russian russians and has always had boat loads of russian soldiers in there. CIA simply did not know that.

Related to my above and as you portray the CIA as ignorant and "learned about Ukraine only recently", do you have insights into all the intel data the CIA will gather as part of their FCI operations? The answer can only be "no, I do not".

Are you envisioning the CIA isolated from both domestic and foreign intel agencies? Are you not aware that since the failed CIA report on alleged WMD in Irak, US Congress impressed on the importance to have all FCI operations conducted by other federal agencies being shared in between them? Do you think that the CIA does not have access to intel data gathered by the French, British, etc...nations considered allies to the US?

Are you sure the CIA didn't know about WMD before the invasion of Iraq? ................http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/18/panorama-iraq-fresh-wmd-claims

 

[tupac chopra]

According to John Pilger

According to the great whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, a silent coup has taken place in Washington and rampant militarism now rules. The Pentagon *currently runs “special operations” – secret wars – in 124 countries.

124 countries. whether that is the exact number I don't know...but what ever the number it dwarfs the 15 countries Hitler is claimed to have invaded here.

Basing your argument on unsubstantiated "secret" wars is not terribly convincing.

Are you saying this doesn't happen?

Especially since there are not quite 200 countries in the world (depending on the source, 193 to 197), that number, if taken seriously, means the US currently engages in "secret wars" in over 60% of the countries in the world.

Hang on are you arguing that there are no 'secret wars" or that the number 124 is too high? I already discounted that number, if you read my post.
My only claim was that is whatever the number, it would dwarf 15.

 

[tupac chopra]

I'm talking about the inconsistency between this

But I never claimed that Obama invaded more countries than Hitler.

and this

Obama and this administration operates aggressive military operation is in far more countries than Hitler ever did.

If you have the latter position, why are you getting so out of sorts about people accusing you of the former position?

I asked you to spell things out rather than make general comments I can't reply to.
What you need to do is explain the inconsistency, not merely claim there is one.

Can you really not understand there is a difference between an invasion and other kinds of "military operations"?

Has the USA invaded the Ukraine? No
Are they assisting or engaged in military operations there. More than likely.

 

[barbos]

Latest news:
Facebook account of Avakov (Minister of Internal Affairs of current Ukrainian "government") was hacked.
Apparently he ordered assassination of Mayor of Kharkov (Gennady Kernes) who nevertheless survived and Avakov is not too happy about that. These people are evil and idiots.


Head of Gazprom Alex Miller was taken out of sanction list after pressure from Europian businessmen.

According to german polls 54% of germans support "annexation" of Crimea.
And Putin has much higher rating in Germany than Merkel.

 

[angelo]

Putin has much higher rating in Germany than Merkel.

That's not surprising!

 

[barbos]

Putin has much higher rating in Germany than Merkel.

That's not surprising!

How so?

 

[angelo]

Putin has much higher rating in Germany than Merkel.

That's not surprising!

How so?

Merkel is not travelling so well at the moment in Germany.

 

[barbos]

Putin has much higher rating in Germany than Merkel.

That's not surprising!

How so?

Merkel is not travelling so well at the moment in Germany.

True, but I wrote "Putin has much higher rating"
Merkel I heard is ~20%
And Putin is ~80% (TV station poll)
20+80=100, I wonder if all Merkel haters like Putin and vice versa

Of course it is not fair comparison because Merkel is dragged down by economy and Putin is not running for chancellor of Germany but still.