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Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

 
 
 
I work for a Swiss company. I can tell you that for what they pay me, I could probably never afford to leave. Unfortunately, I work in the US so I don't get the benefit of the Swiss tax or healthcare or public transportation systems. But the culture is definitely present - They serve alcohol in the cafeteria and we get tons of environmental incentives. I get 4 weeks of vacation a year (and I also work in California so if I don't use it they have to pay me for it), and every 5 years I get a month long paid hiatus (in addition to the vacation days).

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seyorni said:
Are they hiring?
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OK people like making money, or, is it they like making money in places where everybody is the same racial group, preferably the same socio-ethnic group?

One in ten people in Switzerland are foreigners. One in ten foreigners are African and about another ten percent are Asian, and about the same number are Hispanic from the Americas.

Laws have been enacted to segregate primarily black foreigners from other persons in Switzerland.

hmmmnnn?

You want to leave American when southern social elites are finally rejecting racist symbols here? Can I say shame? Will it hurt me? Nope. Shame!
 
fromderinside said:
seyorni said:
Are they hiring?
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OK people like making money, or, is it they like making money in places where everybody is the same racial group, preferably the same socio-ethnic group?

One in ten people in Switzerland are foreigners. One in ten foreigners are African and about another ten percent are Asian, and about the same number are Hispanic from the Americas.
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Where do you get these numbers from? They're clearly wrong.

23.3% of Swiss residents are foreign born. That's more than double the one in ten people figure you claimed. 6.4% of the resident foreigners (not 10%) are from Asia; 4.3% (not 10%) are from Africa; and only 2.7% (not 10%) are from Latin America. Your numbers are all over the place. The biggest groups, in order, are Italians, Germans, Portugese, Asians (unspecified nationality) French, Serbians, Kosovans, Africans (unspecified nationality) and Spanish.


Laws have been enacted to segregate primarily black foreigners from other persons in Switzerland.
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Where are you getting this from? No such laws exist. What you are likely confused by are the asylum center policies that certain towns in Switzerland have adopted; imposing curfews on asylum seekers. These policies are highly controversial both in and outside of Switzerland (and likely in violation of its own constitutional laws); they are not national laws enacted by the government but are entirely local efforts with questionable legalit at best. And even if they were nationally enacted laws, it would still be incorrect to say that laws have been enacted to segregate foreigners (black or otherwise) from other persons in Switzerland, since it doesn't apply to any foreigners except those in asylum centers.
 
dystopian said:
fromderinside said:
OK people like making money, or, is it they like making money in places where everybody is the same racial group, preferably the same socio-ethnic group?

One in ten people in Switzerland are foreigners. One in ten foreigners are African and about another ten percent are Asian, and about the same number are Hispanic from the Americas.
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Where do you get these numbers from? They're clearly wrong.

23.3% of Swiss residents are foreign born. That's more than double the one in ten people figure you claimed. 6.4% of the resident foreigners (not 10%) are from Asia; 4.3% (not 10%) are from Africa; and only 2.7% (not 10%) are from Latin America. Your numbers are all over the place. The biggest groups, in order, are Italians, Germans, Portugese, Asians (unspecified nationality) French, Serbians, Kosovans, Africans (unspecified nationality) and Spanish.


Laws have been enacted to segregate primarily black foreigners from other persons in Switzerland.
Click to expand...

Where are you getting this from? No such laws exist. What you are likely confused by are the asylum center policies that certain towns in Switzerland have adopted; imposing curfews on asylum seekers. These policies are highly controversial both in and outside of Switzerland (and likely in violation of its own constitutional laws); they are not national laws enacted by the government but are entirely local efforts with questionable legalit at best. And even if they were nationally enacted laws, it would still be incorrect to say that laws have been enacted to segregate foreigners (black or otherwise) from other persons in Switzerland, since it doesn't apply to any foreigners except those in asylum centers.
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Read  Immigration to Switzerland, then revise your numbers sir. Even my numbers overstate the out of EU immigration percentages of total population (I was saying about one percent in each category. Its much less than that). About 350K residents, of over 8 million total residents. come from outside EU. Yes I understated the total number of immigrants. It doesn't change the percentages I posted since I specifically indicated the categories which you will find actually overstate the number of immigrants in each category. I chose one percent since about 100-120 k residents are attributed to each category and that is within working distance of one percoent of Swiss 8 million population. Your numbers suggest much higher numbers (6.3 resident foreigners Asian would be about 6 times 80K or 480k which is clearly not true. Its about four times the 120K posted in the Wiki article which draws it numbers from articles issued by Switzerland.

As for laws

there's this:  Swiss immigration referendum, February 2014

and this
The admission of people from non-EU/EFTA countries is regulated by the Foreign Nationals Act, and is limited to skilled workers who are urgently required and are likely to integrate successfully in the long term. There are quotas established yearly: in 2012 it was 3,500 residency permits and 5,000 short-term permits.
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Eyup. They're national all right.

Very accommodating indeed./sneer

I put those who manipulate numbers numbers as you are doing in my hall of shame. Welcome.

No slipping off my Switzerland prejudice hook with bad numbers my boy.
 
fromderinside said:
Read  Immigration to Switzerland, then revise your numbers sir.
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My numbers ARE from that wiki link.

Even my numbers overstate the out of EU immigration percentages of total population (I was saying about one percent in each category. Its much less than that). About 350K residents, of over 8 million total residents. come from outside EU.
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You claimed 1 in 10 Swiss was foreign born. You did not specify non-EU.

Yes I understated the total number of immigrants. It doesn't change the percentages I posted since I specifically indicated the categories which you will find actually overstate the number of immigrants in each category. I chose one percent since about 100-120 k residents are attributed to each category and that is within working distance of one percoent of Swiss 8 million population. Your numbers suggest much higher numbers (6.3 resident foreigners Asian would be about 6 times 80K or 480k which is clearly not true. Its about four times the 120K posted in the Wiki article which draws it numbers from articles issued by Switzerland.
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I don't understand how you do math. According to the wiki link there are 1937447 foreigners born residents living in Switzerland; 122941 of which are from Asia. 122941 is 6.345515516037342% of 1937447. Ergo, 6,4% of foreign born Swiss residents are from Asia.



As for laws

there's this:  Swiss immigration referendum, February 2014
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I will admit I was unaware of this referendum. But it does not segregate foreigners from non-foreigners and thus doesn't support your claim there's laws in Switzerland that do that. It is simply an immigration restriction referendum; it does nothing to segregate Swiss residents who are foreign born from Swiss residents who are not.

and this
The admission of people from non-EU/EFTA countries is regulated by the Foreign Nationals Act, and is limited to skilled workers who are urgently required and are likely to integrate successfully in the long term. There are quotas established yearly: in 2012 it was 3,500 residency permits and 5,000 short-term permits.
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This still doesn't show any segregation. I don't agree with immigration quotas, but what you claimed was: 'Laws have been enacted to segregate primarily black foreigners from other persons in Switzerland.' Clearly no such laws have been enacted.

I put those who manipulate numbers numbers as you are doing in my hall of shame. Welcome.
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Correctly calculating percentages constitutes manipulating "numbers numbers" now? Also What does manipulating numbers numbers even mean? Don't you just mean numbers?
 
dystopian said:
Also What does manipulating numbers numbers even mean? Don't you just mean numbers?
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No I mean, uh, numbers numbers, those special numbers of larger populations of numbers for which it seems we are both delinquent in recognizing and articulating./lame - walking away slowly from the scene of accident.
 
From everything I've seen and read, incomes are very high but so is taxation and so are goods which are mostly imports and the cost of living.

And don't all men have to do military service? Everyone has military rifles at home?
 
credoconsolans said:
From everything I've seen and read, incomes are very high but so is taxation and so are goods which are mostly imports and the cost of living.
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Uh, no. Switzerland has one of the lowest tax rates in the OECD. It is true that the cost of living is relatively high; nonetheless, Swiss local purchasing power is more than a quarter higher than the US which offsets that higher cost of living ( http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...p?country1=Switzerland&country2=United+States )

And don't all men have to do military service? Everyone has military rifles at home?
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It is true that all men are conscripted for a stint in the military service (though 20% of them are declared unfit). It is *not* true that everyone has military rifles at home: this is a misunderstanding based on the fact that members of the militia keep their militia firearms at home as part of regulation. And they are not allowed to keep army-issued ammunition for these firearms at home. The number of households in Switzerland that has a gun is one of the highest in the world, but that is still only 29% of Swiss households (compared to 43% of US households).
 
You forget that in order to achieve the standard of living for the average wage earner that Switzerland and many other European countries have we would have to give up the dream of nearly half of the population of the US to finally catch Mexico in income inequality favoring the very, very rich. There simply isn't enough money earned by the nation as a whole to do both.
 
SimpleDon said:
You forget that in order to achieve the standard of living for the average wage earner that Switzerland and many other European countries have we would have to give up the dream of nearly half of the population of the US to finally catch Mexico in income inequality favoring the very, very rich. There simply isn't enough money earned by the nation as a whole to do both.
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Well, you're just going to have to make a choice.
 
How can that be with all those socialist policies in place?
 
ksen said:
How can that be with all those socialist policies in place?
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Maybe it's not *real* socialism they are trying.

Maybe the writer of the article fed cherrypicked things that sounded socialisty to willing dupes (like a culture of eating long lunches) but really aren't and ignored all the ways the Swiss are pretty damn capitalistic. Like as in actually being one of the banking and financial services capitals of the world.
 
which of these sounds socialisty but really aren't?

1) Swiss Obamacare
2) Paid maternity leave
3) Part time work has full time benefits
4) Wealth taxes
5) Financial transaction taxes
 
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