Reports of at Least 20 Victims Amid Active Shooting Incident in San Bernardino

[Tom Sawyer]

If it was terror related, the issue becomes of path to extremism, which is what needs to be extinguished. And access to assault weapons. If workplace related violence, it becomes more of an issue of mental health and access to assault weapons.

OK, but is there anything about either of those which we know more about by looking at these guys than we do without them? We were aware beforehand that both of these things need to be addressed, so the particular brand of crazy which motivated Mass Shooting #352 as opposed to those which motivated #186 and #247 is kind of moot when discussing the larger issues.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The people who believe there is a "War on Christmas" should be happy. This is what a real "War" on Christians (and other non-Muslims) looks like.
I love the fact that the Daily News reported "GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS" regardless of all politicians' prayers. Perhaps it is because prayer is literally wishful thinking.

Prayer is seeking comfort. Nothing more.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The people who believe there is a "War on Christmas" should be happy. This is what a real "War" on Christians (and other non-Muslims) looks like.
I love the fact that the Daily News reported "GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS" regardless of all politicians' prayers. Perhaps it is because prayer is literally wishful thinking.

Prayer is seeking comfort. Nothing more.

That was kind of the entire point. The people who are in a position to do a lot more are doing nothing except this.

 

[funinspace]

But hey, bring in those Muslim refugees - what could go wrong?

That and we need to immediately force all funny looking people born in Illinois to go thru proper and extremely thorough screening before they are allowed to travel or have guns.

 

[repoman]

If that is a real picture of the Daily News headlind and not a shop I will be shocked. That is some badass shit. Love it!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But hey, bring in those Muslim refugees - what could go wrong?

That and we need to immediately force all funny looking people born in Illinois to go thru proper and extremely thorough screening before they are allowed to travel or have guns.

Yes, no more charity to people in need. We need refugees to become more and more desperate in refugee camps with no work for years, which helps create larger breeding grounds for recruiting extremists... instead of an 18 to 24 analysis period followed by open arms into the US to help them. The right-wing consists of almost nothing but cowards.

If that is a real picture of the Daily News headlind and not a shop I will be shocked. That is some badass shit. Love it!

Electoral Vote had all the comments by the Candidates and Trump blessed the police and the remaining Republicans offered prayers for the families. The Democrats said we need to stop this shit. I think the unanimous response by the Republicans led to the legit NY Daily News cover.

 

[ZiprHead]

If that is a real picture of the Daily News headlind and not a shop I will be shocked. That is some badass shit. Love it!

Yup, it's real. And I agree. Badass shit.

 

[ronburgundy]

Prayer is seeking comfort. Nothing more.

That was kind of the entire point. The people who are in a position to do a lot more are doing nothing except this.

Exactly. Prayer is seeking nothing more than comfort, which means that as a reaction to problems it an act of delusion that you are actually doing something, so that you don't have to face the reality of actually doing something.

Also, praying privately is an act to comfort oneself. Leaders publicly declaring they are praying as a response to political violence is a different act entirely.

 

[credoconsolans]

That and we need to immediately force all funny looking people born in Illinois to go thru proper and extremely thorough screening before they are allowed to travel or have guns.

Yes, no more charity to people in need. We need refugees to become more and more desperate in refugee camps with no work for years, which helps create larger breeding grounds for recruiting extremists... instead of an 18 to 24 analysis period followed by open arms into the US to help them. The right-wing consists of almost nothing but cowards.

But if you bring in a lot of unemployed and unemployable refugees who don't speak the language and don't have the education and can't get jobs, then the same thing happens.

Look at this nut. He HAD a job, seems like a decent job, and still he goes out and kills people.

 

[braces_for_impact]

If it is jihadist violence then is it yet another case of it somehow "not" being his religion then? I mean, he was born here, educated, employed, married, had family here, and his wife (and possibly brother) were in on it too, yet something motivated him. What could it be, lemme think here...

Not to mention the same people already calling for more guns are conveniently ignoring the fact that these guns were bought legally. The same people complaining borders are too porous in Europe aren't doing so regarding our states, I notice.

Can you really call it a "Lone wolf" scenario when he has two accomplices? Could they all be mentally ill?

There's a lot of unanswered questions here.

 

[maxparrish]

If it was terror related, the issue becomes of path to extremism, which is what needs to be extinguished. And access to assault weapons. If workplace related violence, it becomes more of an issue of mental health and access to assault weapons.

OK, but is there anything about either of those which we know more about by looking at these guys than we do without them? We were aware beforehand that both of these things need to be addressed, so the particular brand of crazy which motivated Mass Shooting #352 as opposed to those which motivated #186 and #247 is kind of moot when discussing the larger issues.

You mean its moot when a person wishes to fit their facts into a different narrative. One can choose many different definitions and aggregations to prove some pet point about violence, including but not limited to: "all shootings everywhere", "all assaults by weapons", and "all incidents of violence". Each of these are valid categories, and each serve someone's narrative, but that does not make them relevant.

So one begins with honesty, to unsort the manipulation by noting that the numbers you quoted have its origins in a crowd-sourcing website, not official statistics. Then one further notes that that this website defines a count (of four) in a mass shooting (fatal or otherwise) by anyone (police or suspects) of anyone (victim, suspect, police), in any setting, as a benchmark.

But what is the point of doing so? For example, what is useful about counting the death of three bank robbers and a policemen in a crime scene as a "mass shooting", to be lumped into the Roseburg and Planned Parenthood shooting spree of innocents?

It is ONLY useful to confuse, conflate, and gin up the statistics to frighten the public.

On the other hand, you could choose to use the Congressional Research Service's study:

Defining Public Mass Shooting

Policy makers may confront numerous questions about shootings such as the December 2012
incident at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, CT, that claimed 27 lives (not including
the shooter). Foremost, what are the parameters of this threat? How should it be defined?

There is no broadly agreed-to, specific conceptualization of this issue, so this report uses its own
definition for public mass shootings. These are incidents occurring in relatively public places,
involving four or more deaths—not including the shooter(s)—and gunmen who select victims
somewhat indiscriminately. The violence in these cases is not a means to an end—the gunmen do
not pursue criminal profit or kill in the name of terrorist ideologies, for example.

One Measure of the Death Toll Exacted by Public Mass Shootings. Applying this understanding
of the issue, the Congressional Research Service (CRS) has identified 78 public mass shootings
that have occurred in the United States since 1983. ... According to CRS estimates, over the last three decades public mass shootings have claimed 547 lives and led to an additional 476 injured victims. Significantly, while tragic and
shocking, public mass shootings account for few of the murders or non-negligent homicides
related to firearms that occur annually in the United States.

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43004.pdf

In other words, on average we are speaking of 2.5 events per year, with 30.4 people as victims of shooting (fatal and non-fatal).

(And, then one can incrementally add the handful of formally defined terrorist related events, which are even fewer on average).

 

[fromderinside]

Look at this nut. He HAD a job, seems like a decent job, and still he goes out and kills people.

Yeah, but you don't live in San Berna.... never mind. Go back to your McDonald's scenario I guess.

No accounting for the fruits and nuts in CA, eh, Tom Sawyer.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yes, no more charity to people in need. We need refugees to become more and more desperate in refugee camps with no work for years, which helps create larger breeding grounds for recruiting extremists... instead of an 18 to 24 analysis period followed by open arms into the US to help them. The right-wing consists of almost nothing but cowards.

But if you bring in a lot of unemployed and unemployable refugees who don't speak the language and don't have the education and can't get jobs, then the same thing happens.

They aren't unemployed because they aren't employable. They are in a refugee camp, which aren't exactly the best places to look for work. These people had jobs and don't have jobs now because they were displaced from their homes and living in camps.

Look at this nut. He HAD a job, seems like a decent job, and still he goes out and kills people.

And he was not imported. What is the biggest difference between a refugee and a home grown terrorist? The home grown terrorist for some reason or another just starts feeling alienated or some absurd brotherhood with assholes in the Middle East. The Refugees are running away from those assholes.

 

[Ford]

If it is jihadist violence then is it yet another case of it somehow "not" being his religion then? I mean, he was born here, educated, employed, married, had family here, and his wife (and possibly brother) were in on it too, yet something motivated him. What could it be, lemme think here...

He was born and raised in a society that sees being heavily armed as a solution to every problem? A country where mass shooters lay waste to a bunch of innocent people and half the country just shrugs, offers "prayers" or insists the solution is more shootouts?

 

[credoconsolans]

But if you bring in a lot of unemployed and unemployable refugees who don't speak the language and don't have the education and can't get jobs, then the same thing happens.

They aren't unemployed because they aren't employable. They are in a refugee camp, which aren't exactly the best places to look for work. These people had jobs and don't have jobs now because they were displaced from their homes and living in camps.

No, I meant most are unemployable because they don't speak the language. That right there is a massive barrier to any job unless they like picking crops.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

They aren't unemployed because they aren't employable. They are in a refugee camp, which aren't exactly the best places to look for work. These people had jobs and don't have jobs now because they were displaced from their homes and living in camps.

No, I meant most are unemployable because they don't speak the language. That right there is a massive barrier to any job unless they like picking crops.

And it also makes them indistinguishable from countless thousands of other immigrants with the same barrier who come in, learn the language and end up prospering.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

But hey, bring in those Muslim refugees - what could go wrong?

That and we need to immediately force all funny looking people born in Illinois to go thru proper and extremely thorough screening before they are allowed to travel or have guns.

My parents would pray every week for the conversion of the Jews and of Russia. And Mom even had a "little Jewish friend." She had no prejudices either, but at least she had a little Jewish friend. I'm certain max has a little muslim friend somewhere.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

A federal law enforcement source told The Times that although investigators have yet to establish a clear motive in the shooting, they are leaning toward a possible “combination of terrorism and workplace” motivation.

“We’re very involved in terms of trying to see if the motive was something inspired by a terrorist organization or directed by a terrorist organization, or whether [Syed Farook] was self-radicalized,” the source, who requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing, said.

Police recovered additional firearms and explosive materials in the couple's rented Redlands home. Investigators believe the couple had a familiarity with weapons and military-style tactics.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-live-updates-htmlstory.html

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Investigators believe the couple had a familiarity with weapons and military-style tactics.

Well, on the bright side, it's always nice when couples can find activities they enjoy doing together.

 

[dismal]

Yes, workplace violence explains it. In his spare time he was a radicalized muslim with a bomb factory in his house and international terrorist connections but what really motivated him to grab the wife, drop the kid off at grandma's and murder a bunch of people was he couldn't get the right cover on his TPS reports.