Investigation Launched After Cop Punches Teen Girl At Pride Fest

[Jarhyn]

I'm gay. I certainly do not have a problem with the girl or her behavior. I am also, however, trained in threat management, assessment, and reaction. You think it's so fucking easy to know what 'right' is in the heat of the moment. You don't seem to want to acknowledge the fact that snap judgements suffer from having to be made by a part of the brain that bypasses rational thought. News flash: when there's an active potential threat, you act first and thinking comes later. It's the difference between being dead or alive at the end of it.

I feel for the girl. The bad guy here is the one who freaked out, screamed that the girl was a threat, and triggered a reaction response.

 

[ksen]

Hey, way to absolve the dickhead who was actually throwing punches of any responsibility.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm gay. I certainly do not have a problem with the girl or her behavior. I am also, however, trained in threat management, assessment, and reaction. You think it's so fucking easy to know what 'right' is in the heat of the moment.

That is supposed to be the officers job. That is why civilians are supposed to stay out of criminal situations, ie don't storm a house that is being robber). Additionally, the heat of the moment was created by the officer.

You don't seem to want to acknowledge the fact that snap judgements suffer from having to be made by a part of the brain that bypasses rational thought. News flash: when there's an active potential threat, you act first and thinking comes later. It's the difference between being dead or alive at the end of it.

At a gay pride event? There was no indication there was any threat to anyone.

I feel for the girl. The bad guy here is the one who freaked out, screamed that the girl was a threat, and triggered a reaction response.

What is odd is that you originally said the policeman shouldn't be blamed because we should accept all policemen are sociopaths.

 

[Nexus]

News flash: when there's an active potential threat, you act first and thinking comes later. It's the difference between being dead or alive at the end of it.

First there was no threat. Second that type of reaction to a potential threat may be acceptable for a soldier in combat but certainly not for police officers dealing with the public. There was no riot, hostage situation or gunman on a rampage.

 

[Jarhyn]

That is supposed to be the officers job. That is why civilians are supposed to stay out of criminal situations, ie don't storm a house that is being robber). Additionally, the heat of the moment was created by the officer.

You don't seem to want to acknowledge the fact that snap judgements suffer from having to be made by a part of the brain that bypasses rational thought. News flash: when there's an active potential threat, you act first and thinking comes later. It's the difference between being dead or alive at the end of it.

At a gay pride event? There was no indication there was any threat to anyone.

aside from the girl loudly screaming that she wants to assault the protestors. That can't possibly be a thing to put cops on edge. And then a panicked guy who isn't really easily visible asks in a panicked voice to get police assistance. No. There was no perception of a threat at that powder keg at all.

I feel for the girl. The bad guy here is the one who freaked out, screamed that the girl was a threat, and triggered a reaction response.

What is odd is that you originally said the policeman shouldn't be blamed because we should accept all policemen are sociopaths.

they are. The bad guy was the one who said 'help, police, this person needs to be arrested'

 

[KeepTalking]

I'm gay. I certainly do not have a problem with the girl or her behavior.

I didn't think you did.

I am also, however, trained in threat management, assessment, and reaction. You think it's so fucking easy to know what 'right' is in the heat of the moment.

There should not have been any 'heat of the moment', there was no real threat to the cop, nor anyone else present (well, other than the complete over-reaction by the cop). And, of course, you should not presume that you are the only person in this thread trained in threat management.

You don't seem to want to acknowledge the fact that snap judgements suffer from having to be made by a part of the brain that bypasses rational thought. News flash: when there's an active potential threat, you act first and thinking comes later. It's the difference between being dead or alive at the end of it.

I will concede one thing, there is no rational thought evident in the actions of the police officer in question.

I feel for the girl. The bad guy here is the one who freaked out, screamed that the girl was a threat, and triggered a reaction response.

I'm still not buying it, though I do not question your empathy for the girl. The cop is the bad guy, if anyone there should have been in a position to see that the girl was not a threat to anyone, it was the cop. Threat assessment is part of his job. Being a thug for the Christian right is not part of his job. He failed big time, and at the very least he should lose his job. I would also recommend jail time for assault, as well as paying through the nose after a civil suit.

 

[Jarhyn]

Threat assessment isn't actually a major part of a situation like that with screaming and strong verbal altercation. Threat level is already elevated. There was no real clear view or reason that the poorly trained police would have had to be looking in the immediate direction of the girl who was assaulted because that wasn't where the threats were being made. The cop had no way of knowing why the guy freaked out, only that he did freak out and the girl was ostensibly the reason. Threat assessment had already been made, and confirmation would come too late. The cop reacted, as was his job. He had no way of knowing that the protestor was lying. Protestors have been attacked in the past.

 

[ksen]

The cop had no way of knowing why the guy freaked out, only that he did freak out and the girl was ostensibly the reason.

Well, then the obvious reaction should be to punch the shit out of her. Just to be safe.

eta: btw, ur terrible at this threat assessment thing

 

[KeepTalking]

Threat assessment isn't actually a major part of a situation like that with screaming and strong verbal altercation.

In that case, why did you bring it up? IIRC you were the first person to bring up threat assessment in this thread.

Threat level is already elevated. There was no real clear view or reason that the poorly trained police would have had to be looking in the immediate direction of the girl who was assaulted because that wasn't where the threats were being made. The cop had no way of knowing why the guy freaked out, only that he did freak out and the girl was ostensibly the reason. Threat assessment had already been made, and confirmation would come too late. The cop reacted, as was his job. He had no way of knowing that the protestor was lying. Protestors have been attacked in the past.

He had ways of knowing, simply standing back and observing would have been one way. A more proactive way would have been to step in for purposes of defusing the situation without escalating, and then talking to those involved and any witnesses. That is his job. Reacting without full awareness of the situation, and potentially causing a much worse situation is not his job, but that is what he did. He has no one to blame but himself, and possibly whoever hired/trained him.

 

[Jarhyn]

Yes. Simply standing back and observing as a panicking guy he can't see clearly is potentially going to get assaulted. Great course of action there. No. Whatever else you guys have against police, and there's plenty to have against police, this isn't that situation. It shocks me that you care more about the cop than the guy who instigated the arrest.

 

[KeepTalking]

Yes. Simply standing back and observing as a panicking guy he can't see clearly is potentially going to get assaulted. Great course of action there. No.

So get to a better vantage point, and observe. It might only take a few seconds. And, of course that is not the only course of action that I recommended. Assaulting someone because someone else is potentially going to be assaulted is not the proper course of action for anyone. Police should not be arresting people for potential crimes either, except in Tom Cruise movies.

Whatever else you guys have against police, and there's plenty to have against police, this isn't that situation. It shocks me that you care more about the cop than the guy who instigated the arrest.

The cop was the one who should have been trained to handle the situation properly. The preacher is guilty of being a dick, but he was that long before this took place. The cop is guilty of both failing to do his job properly, and assault, he is rightly the one to earn most of our ire, and you really should not be shocked that it is the case in this forum.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yes. Simply standing back and observing as a panicking guy he can't see clearly is potentially going to get assaulted.

Potentially going to be assaulted? Dire straits indeed, potentially at least.

Great course of action there.

Assessing the situation is apparently a bad idea. A person cries wolf, cop takes down first person he sees?

Whatever else you guys have against police...

You are the one saying they are all sociopaths.

...this isn't that situation.

A cop threw three solid punches into a teen who didn't appear to be a threat at all.

It shocks me that you care more about the cop than the guy who instigated the arrest.

That'd be a strawman.

 

[dystopian]

Yes. Simply standing back and observing as a panicking guy he can't see clearly is potentially going to get assaulted. Great course of action there. No. Whatever else you guys have against police, and there's plenty to have against police, this isn't that situation. It shocks me that you care more about the cop than the guy who instigated the arrest.

I think you need to watch the video again.

Are you seriously suggesting that it was perfectly reasonable for the cop to go "that guy is possibly going to get assaulted, IF I DON'T GRAB THIS GIRL HALF MY SIZE AND PUNCH HER IN THE STOMACH A COUPLE OF TIMES THINGS COULD GET UGLY!"?

I'll echo Ksen in saying that someone's terrible at threat assessment.

 

[ksen]

Yes. Simply standing back and observing as a panicking guy he can't see clearly is potentially going to get assaulted. Great course of action there. No. Whatever else you guys have against police, and there's plenty to have against police, this isn't that situation. It shocks me that you care more about the cop than the guy who instigated the arrest.

eta: btw, ur terrible at this threat assessment thing

:nada:

 

[Jarhyn]

Potentially going to be assaulted? Dire straits indeed, potentially at least.

Great course of action there.

Assessing the situation is apparently a bad idea. A person cries wolf, cop takes down first person he sees?

yes. And hindsight is 20/20. You are right. Because you have every piece of information NOW, the cop obviously must have. In a situation like that, there are no seconds to waste. Try putting yourself in a place you don't want to be, surrounded by angry shouting people, and the certain knowledge that if one of these dickbags you've been detailed to gets hurt, it's your balls on the line because they'll sue the shit out of the department phelps-style. Then imagine that one of said dickbags calls for help. It's chaotic and you think you might see... You don't know what you see but at that point hyperactive threat detection kicks in. The struggling person you rush into is still struggling, so you land a few punches, and well, shit, it was a teenage girl? God damnit.

He's a working man doing a job with the same hopes and fears you and I have. People have to act, and it's a tragedy that not all facts can possibly be gathered before action MUST be taken.

Whatever else you guys have against police...

You are the one saying they are all sociopaths.

...this isn't that situation.

A cop threw three solid punches into a teen who didn't appear to be a threat at all.

...from a distance, after careful observation, and from someone who didn't have a bucket of adrenaline going through them. You weren't there, and as is clear from your armchair analysis, you never have been.

It shocks me that you care more about the cop than the guy who instigated the arrest.

That'd be a strawman.

... If you hadn't already made clear your intent to crucify a cop who was very likely just doing his job as best he knew how. How about retraining him rather than selling him up a river? Or better yet demand hiring practices and standards for cops which demand a 'moral implications before legal implications' approach to the job?

 

[ksen]

He's a working man doing a job with the same hopes and fears you and I have.

I don't know man. I hope he gets his ass handed to him in a sling but I fear he won't. I doubt he shares my hopes and fears.

 

[Jarhyn]

He's a working man doing a job with the same hopes and fears you and I have.

I don't know man. I hope he gets his ass handed to him in a sling but I fear he won't. I doubt he shares my hopes and fears.

Then you are nothing but a psychopathic retributivist no better than the street preacher whose ass he should have actually been allowed to kick. Kant was a cunt, as is anyone who follows his revenge fetishism.

 

[ksen]

Sounds about right . . . but at least I'm not terrible at threat assessment.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The officer didn't err in his threat assessment, he was merely being proactive in his job of keeping us safe. Don't you want the police to keep people safe? Why do you hate the police?[/conservoprogressive]

 

[Jarhyn]

Sounds about right . . . but at least I'm not terrible at threat assessment.

I guarantee that you are. Because damn near everyone is on those timescales with those stakes, and in those sorts of situations.