Political Parties and racism

[NobleSavage]

It's been stated on this forum that Republicans are racist and usually followed by a long explanation of the southern strategy. Well, the famed statistician, Nate Silver, looks at the data and the conclusion is there is not that much difference between Democrats and Republicans. Republicans score a little higher on racial questions, but there is no chasm.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-white-republicans-more-racist-than-white-democrats/

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I've never been sold on the idea of a southern strategy in the first place. The only real support for it comes from the musings of one particular person, and it exploded from there.

From my blog.

The most insidious explanation for Democrat losses is "the Southern Strategy", which is a severe insult against all Southerners as ignorant racists. It is one of the most hyped theories around, but it is not a given that it even exists. It traces to the musings of one Republican who was a racist, but doesn't trace to any actual proof that any actual strategy even exists in the first place. All evidence for it is circumstantial - that since the late 60s the Solid South stopped voting Solid Democrat and started voting Republican a lot more often.

The Southern Strategy is allegedly based on the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the fact that it was signed by a Democrat president, even though it was put on his desk because Congressional Republicans pushed it through. Key votes are examined such as when Goldwater voted for every Civil Rights Act before the 1964 one, and key votes are ignored such as when Goldwater's opponents voted against every Civil Rights Act before the 1964 one.

The theory states that because a Democrat president signed the Civil Rights Act, the ignorant and racist South turned Republican. The facts do not support that assertion.

Democrat Jimmy Carter's won victories in every Southern state except for Virginia and Oklahoma in the 1976 Presidential election, years after the alleged emergence of the Southern Strategy.

Democrat Bill Clinton was able to win five southern states twice (Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia) and two states once (Georgia in 1992 and Florida in 1996). Virginia, Texas and North Carolina were won by the Republican candidates by significantly smaller margins than usual.

The first Southern state to give the GOP control of both its governorship and its legislature was Florida. It did not do this until 1998. Florida has an atypical population for a Southern state, with a large retiree population from northern states and also a large Cuban population that leans Republican due to a shared opposition to Fidel Castro.

Georgia did not elect its first post-Reconstruction GOP governor until 2002. Until 2005, Louisiana had been represented since Reconstruction only by Democratic Senators. Arkansas has two Democratic Senators, a Democratic governor, three out of four of their U.S. representatives are Democrats, every statewide office is held by a Democrat, and their state legislature is Democratic. Tennessee and North Carolina have a majority Democratic delegation in the U.S. House of representatives. Mississippi has a house delegation that is evenly split between Democrats and Republicans.

It seems that the "Southern Strategy" which is quoted so often is more the musings of one particular racist Republican and not a Republican Party policy. Nixon is supposed to be the epitome of the evil American politician, but he is still just one person.

 

[untermensche]

The Southern strategy is simply a strategy of using subtle racist imagery and speech to attract some racists that will turn a close election to your favor.

You don't look at results of elections to find it. You look at campaign materials, commercials and advertising and speeches.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Oh, I forgot. My bad. You've got to know all the secret signs that aren't visible to most people in order to correctly identify racism.

 

[untermensche]

Oh, I forgot. My bad. You've got to know all the secret signs that aren't visible to most people in order to correctly identify racism.

I don't think so.

You look at something like the Willie Horton ads and there is no secret.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Oh, I forgot. My bad. You've got to know all the secret signs that aren't visible to most people in order to correctly identify racism.

I don't think so.

You look at something like the Willie Horton ads and there is no secret.

I was a little young, but I remember how Al Gore used that issue against Michale Dukakis in the 1988 Democratic primary. Then Bush picked it up and used it against Dukakis once the primaries were over and the general election campaign had started. So Dukakis got the attack from one Democrat and one Republican.

Personally I feel that what did Dukakis in was that ridiculous picture of him in a tank. He looked like a Fisher Price mini-figure.

 

[laughing dog]

Oh, I forgot. My bad. You've got to know all the secret signs that aren't visible to most people in order to correctly identify racism.

I don't think so.

You look at something like the Willie Horton ads and there is no secret.

Or some of Ron Paul's newsletters.

 

[untermensche]

Oh, I forgot. My bad. You've got to know all the secret signs that aren't visible to most people in order to correctly identify racism.

I don't think so.

You look at something like the Willie Horton ads and there is no secret.

Or some of Ron Paul's newsletters.

Over time the messages become more subtle.

Today you can attract racists with the right kind of anti-immigration or anti-terrorism speech.

 

[untermensche]

Oh, I forgot. My bad. You've got to know all the secret signs that aren't visible to most people in order to correctly identify racism.

I don't think so.

You look at something like the Willie Horton ads and there is no secret.

I was a little young, but I remember how Al Gore used that issue against Michale Dukakis in the 1988 Democratic primary. Then Bush picked it up and used it against Dukakis once the primaries were over and the general election campaign had started. So Dukakis got the attack from one Democrat and one Republican.

Personally I feel that what did Dukakis in was that ridiculous picture of him in a tank. He looked like a Fisher Price mini-figure.

I don't know what specific campaign material from Gore you're talking about. I lived through it and don't remember any ad.

But I'm sure frivolous voters probably did let nothingness like a ridiculous image tilt their thinking.

And the US has more than it's share of frivolous voters.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Oh, I forgot. My bad. You've got to know all the secret signs that aren't visible to most people in order to correctly identify racism.

http://www.amazon.com/Dog-Whistle-Politics-Appeals-Reinvented/dp/0199964270
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

So it is something like this: "We want to stop them illegals from taking our jobs" means to many, "We want to stop Latinos from settling in our neighborhoods" but you wouldn't know that from the first message unless you knew the hidden message.

Much like, "We want to get rid of voter fraud" means "We want to curb the power of minorities at the polls."

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Dog whistle politics. I get it. Secret handshakes and codewords. That's how we know which candidate the Illuminati is backing.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Dog whistle politics. I get it. Secret handshakes and codewords. That's how we know which candidate the Illuminati is backing.

Let's say I say that "The economy cannot hold as it is. We look forward to a more prosperous time. We need to turn worthless paper into gold". -- Do you get the special meaning I am trying to convey?

Let's try another: "A free society is not held together at the point of a gun. We are brave and intelligent enough to carve our own paths in the future in mutual agreement with our neighbors."

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Let's say I say that "The economy cannot hold as it is. We look forward to a more prosperous time. We need to turn worthless paper into gold". -- Do you get the special meaning I am trying to convey?

Yes. The speaker prefers a gold standard to fiat currency.

Let's try another: "A free society is not held together at the point of a gun. We are brave and intelligent enough to carve our own paths in the future in mutual agreement with our neighbors."

Not much context there, but it would appear that the speaker prefers less government involvement in the lives of the people.

 

[dismal]

Nate Silver, looks at the data and the conclusion is there is not that much difference between Democrats and Republicans.

Next thing you'll be telling us lots of rich investment bankers are Democrats.

Data schmata, we prefer our lazy preconceptions.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Yes. The speaker prefers a gold standard to fiat currency.

But the speaker did not say that... but you clearly know what the alternate meaning is when most won't. Hence the dog-whistle.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Yes. The speaker prefers a gold standard to fiat currency.

But the speaker did not say that... but you clearly know what the alternate meaning is when most won't. Hence the dog-whistle.

Alternate meaning? As in you think there were hidden secret codes in what you wrote? What alternate meanings do you think there were in what you wrote? I'm afraid I'm not a cryptographer and not up to speed on finding secret meanings in everyday events.

But let us see if we can find secret racism in the following phrases:

We need stricter gun control.
Make the rich pay their fair share.
All developed countries have socialized medicine except the US.
We need to reduce CO2 emissions.
Forgive Student Loan Debt.
We are the 99%.

 

[Duke Leto]

The problem with Silver's analysis is that he is aggregating ALL Democrats into a big lump. If he were breaking out the populations of registered Democrats with racial hangups by state, he would find they live mostly in the South, especially the Appalachian states. Kentucky and West Virginia are overwhelmingly Democratic states that have a tendency to vote Republican for President and some Federal offices on Moral and Energy issues. (And more lately war and race...)

 

[EricK]

Oh, I forgot. My bad. You've got to know all the secret signs that aren't visible to most people in order to correctly identify racism.

I don't think so.

You look at something like the Willie Horton ads and there is no secret.

Or some of Ron Paul's newsletters.

Over time the messages become more subtle.

Today you can attract racists with the right kind of anti-immigration or anti-terrorism speech.

But being anti-immigration is common right across the political spectrum, and there is pretty much always a racist undertone to it.

 

[untermensche]

Oh, I forgot. My bad. You've got to know all the secret signs that aren't visible to most people in order to correctly identify racism.

I don't think so.

You look at something like the Willie Horton ads and there is no secret.

Or some of Ron Paul's newsletters.

Over time the messages become more subtle.

Today you can attract racists with the right kind of anti-immigration or anti-terrorism speech.

But being anti-immigration is common right across the political spectrum, and there is pretty much always a racist undertone to it.

Everybody talks about immigration. And not everybody is for shrinking it. Some are for expanding it.

But the only people I hear barking about it are Republicans.

And they are the only ones barking about terrorism.

It's clear they are not trying to attract the rational.

 

[SimpleDon]

It's been stated on this forum that Republicans are racist and usually followed by a long explanation of the southern strategy. Well, the famed statistician, Nate Silver, looks at the data and the conclusion is there is not that much difference between Democrats and Republicans. Republicans score a little higher on racial questions, but there is no chasm.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-white-republicans-more-racist-than-white-democrats/

You are confusing the number of people in the two parties who are racists, in their personal beliefs, with the complaint against the Republicans, that they engage in racial politics.

Let me ask you this, do you believe that the Democrats engaged in racial politics before 1964? For example, George Wallace? For example, do you believe that the Democrats before 1964 intentionally suppressed the black vote?

Do you think that there were more racists in the pre-1964 Democratic party than there were in the Republican party of that time?