Too Much Policing in Black Neighborhoods

[Loren Pechtel]

Again, the police are a large part of the problem. If they fail to investigate major crimes because they're riding around arresting and beating people at random, then they are not serving their most important functions. And it's absolutely clear that many white people, mostly on the right wing, are openly in favor of this. So yes, I'll add them to the list.

Except that's not what they are doing. I haven't seen any serious claim that the police are mostly beating people at random.

3) BLM is making the police more cautious about doing their jobs

I'd love that if it were true. Instead, they treat every protest like a terrorist attack, and come out in mine-resistant vehicles and absurd body armor screaming about how they're at war - and then act shocked when people treat them like the self-described enemies.

You would love it if the crime rate goes up???

And they don't treat protests like terrorist acts but they are prepared for violence as it's common.

 

[Jarhyn]

I would be far happier with a situation where no advertisement outside of dispensaries is accepted. Then, I also happpen to think that it ought be sold in plain packaging and that all additives, cutting agents, and ingredients should be listed and that no patents be issuable on anything involving recreational drugs; Allow competition to exist on the merits of the quality of product alone. Force competition to happen on the axis of quality alone.

What's the problem with fancy packaging so long as it's only in a dispensary?

It has to do with how easily humans are distracted in matters of product selection, and with concerns over ensuring competition and preventing barriers to entry. While I am obviously for ending the drug war, the more efficient the market is, the lower profit margins become, and a key element of improving the strength of market efficiency is that the products are made to speak for themselves.

Also, plain packaging would do its part to prevent kids from being visually attracted to the drugs, and to prevent adults from selling the glamor of them. I feel the same way about liquor and nicotine.

 

[RavenSky]

And it's not so much a matter of distrust of the police as fear of the criminals. Talking is a good way for bad things to happen to you.

So you claim with nothing whatsoever to support your opinion.

I say that citizens refuse to assist police in solving crimes because they don't trust the police. And I will give you just as much factual support for my position as you have given to me for yours:

 

[RavenSky]

What, exactly, did BLM do to cause this problem?

Create mistrust of police? Nope, that's been around for...I don't even know how long.

Cause cops to shoot and kill black people, or shrug their shoulders at a murder? Also no, they're a response to that.

Did they fund drug raids far above homicide detectives, who often point out that they can't pay for witness protection? Nope, they're mostly too young for that one (Did you even know about this problem?).

I'd say they've created a lot of distrust between the police and the public. They've also demoralized cops from doing their jobs. And the extraordinarily high homicide and non-fatal shooting rate is not because of cops.

“For more than a year now, Chicago Police officers have been facing another level of disrespect, the likes of which I’ve not seen in my 36 years,” FOP President Dean Angelo said, talking to a lunchtime crowd at the City Club of Chicago.

Angelo, saying the city is on course to register 700 homicides in 2016, noted that in some parts of the city, “nearly every contact with the public is met with a level of confrontation.”

In some cases, people will “bait” police officers, “literally calling them every name in the book,” in the hopes of getting them to react for a cell phone video, Angelo said. They are looking for a “pay day,” Angelo said.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/fop-president-says-cops-demoralized-baited-by-public/

When you vilify law enforcement and create blood libels like "hands up, don't shoot," that's going to have an effect.

Police (like everyone else in the world) have to earn respect. It is not given or taken away by third parties

 

[Mumbles]

Except that's not what they are doing. I haven't seen any serious claim that the police are mostly beating people at random.

You should probably read those DOJ reports.

Or talk to a black guy. Oh wait...

Yeah, I and several of my friends have been randomly assaulted by police. Thing about those friends...black and Latino.

You would love it if the crime rate goes up???

I cut that part out. I want them to be *far* more cautious about their jobs. When you actually think about it, maybe witness protection would be a better investment than military surplus to in parades, and protests.

And they don't treat protests like terrorist acts but they are prepared for violence as it's common.

And it's quite often caused by them, as we saw in Ferguson, and Baton Rouge. I suspect this happened in Baltimore as well, since officials were stupid enough to close the Mondawmin subway stop that several schools use as a transit hub, right as schools were letting out, to prevent students from going to the mall right next to it. But they're still sitting on that footage.

 

[Trausti]

I'd say they've created a lot of distrust between the police and the public. They've also demoralized cops from doing their jobs. And the extraordinarily high homicide and non-fatal shooting rate is not because of cops.

“For more than a year now, Chicago Police officers have been facing another level of disrespect, the likes of which I’ve not seen in my 36 years,” FOP President Dean Angelo said, talking to a lunchtime crowd at the City Club of Chicago.

Angelo, saying the city is on course to register 700 homicides in 2016, noted that in some parts of the city, “nearly every contact with the public is met with a level of confrontation.”

In some cases, people will “bait” police officers, “literally calling them every name in the book,” in the hopes of getting them to react for a cell phone video, Angelo said. They are looking for a “pay day,” Angelo said.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/fop-president-says-cops-demoralized-baited-by-public/

When you vilify law enforcement and create blood libels like "hands up, don't shoot," that's going to have an effect.

Police (like everyone else in the world) have to earn respect. It is not given or taken away by third parties

Until you earn our respect, we won't help you solve homicides and non-fatal shootings. Makes sense.

 

[Mumbles]

Police (like everyone else in the world) have to earn respect. It is not given or taken away by third parties

Exactly. If people see a wave of videos of clear cut abuse, followed by clear coverups and DA corruption, they'll all lose respect, and that's exactly what's happened.

The FOP/Union leaders tend to be awful at this sort of thing. They see their jobs at protecting "their boys" at all costs, and they're usually the 36-year guys who really don't represent the average guy on the beat. You might remember charmers like NYPD's Pat "THere's blood on Di Blasio's hands" Lynch.

It wouldn't shock me if the "Confrontation" were just people stopping and pulling out cell phones. I've noticed a *lot* more of that these days, and heard the same from folks in other cities.

 

[Mumbles]

Until you earn our respect, we won't help you solve homicides and non-fatal shootings. Makes sense.

I can't trust you to not kill me, I can't trust you to not leave me here to get killed, I'm not going near you.

That does, in fact, make sense. And some people choose to "take care of it" on their own, instead.

 

[Trausti]

Until you earn our respect, we won't help you solve homicides and non-fatal shootings. Makes sense.

I can't trust you to not kill me, I can't trust you to not leave me here to get killed, I'm not going near you.

That does, in fact, make sense. And some people choose to "take care of it" on their own, instead.

In Chicago, say, what are your chances of being shot by a black male versus being shot by the police? The notion that there's this epidemic of police shooting black males for shits and giggles is just balderdash. But if you promote such balderdash, the end result will be even less safe neighborhoods and more murderers and attempted murderers walking the streets. Winning! I guess.

 

[barbos]

Nicotine patches are fairly pure nicotine.

Nobody is addicted to nicotine patches. It is just enough to lessen cravings.

Lots of people use them.

For cigarettes.

Why discuss this non-issue?

Nobody is addicted to chemically pure heroin, why discuss this non-issue?

 

[barbos]

Daily Fail just repeated what serious researchers said.

Did you notice the source was an addiction treatment place? While the data might be accurate that doesn't mean it's not cherry-picked. I pointed out the problem--it counts the harm due to the illegality as well as the harm due to the drug.

I noticed that they refer to some university studies.

 

[barbos]

But tobacco deaths are due to impurity too. I doubt Nicolette patches all that deadly.

Impurity as in cut with unsuitable agents or dangerous residues left from manufacturing. I'm not talking about things inherent in the nature of the product, such as the combustion products of tobacco.

Irrelevant, nicotine is much much safer than any hard drug or even marijuana.

 

[untermensche]

Nobody is addicted to nicotine patches. It is just enough to lessen cravings.

Lots of people use them.

For cigarettes.

Why discuss this non-issue?

Nobody is addicted to chemically pure heroin, why discuss this non-issue?

So you can give no reason to discuss it.

Agreed.

 

[Mumbles]

I can't trust you to not kill me, I can't trust you to not leave me here to get killed, I'm not going near you.

That does, in fact, make sense. And some people choose to "take care of it" on their own, instead.

In Chicago, say, what are your chances of being shot by a black male versus being shot by the police?

Well, unless I start to snitch, I'm more likely to get shot (or beaten, "dissapeared" into bookings/their black site) by the cops.

But if I *do* snitch, *now* I'm definitely going to get it from the gangs.

See how that works? Either way, I want to be nowhere near the cops.

The notion that there's this epidemic of police shooting black males for shits and giggles is just balderdash.

Didn't say they'll shoot you for fun. But they'll put you in the hospital for "disrespect" much faster than a gang member would, too. Kinda like the gang members, but worse.

And it's been this way for quite some time now, and I knew it growing up, because I *had* to know it, because I grew up in the middle of it.

 

[barbos]

In Chicago, say, what are your chances of being shot by a black male versus being shot by the police?

Well, unless I start to snitch, I'm more likely to get shot (or beaten, "dissapeared" into bookings/their black site) by the cops.

But if I *do* snitch, *now* I'm definitely going to get it from the gangs.

See how that works? Either way, I want to be nowhere near the cops.

The notion that there's this epidemic of police shooting black males for shits and giggles is just balderdash.

Didn't say they'll shoot you for fun. But they'll put you in the hospital for "disrespect" much faster than a gang member would, too. Kinda like the gang members, but worse.

And it's been this way for quite some time now, and I knew it growing up, because I *had* to know it, because I grew up in the middle of it.

Well, if police is worse than gangs then you clearly need to choose snitching And you need to start snitching from the very early age, that's called parenting. Right now black parents are doing the opposite they always blame police and kids are watching.

 

[Mumbles]

Well, if police is worse than gangs then you clearly need to choose snitching

Whoops, wrong choice, you're dead. Oh, and so is your mom, gang members kinda just spray bullets.

 

[barbos]

Well, if police is worse than gangs then you clearly need to choose snitching

Whoops, wrong choice, you're dead. Oh, and so is your mom, gang members kinda just spray bullets.

Then clearly police are not worse than gangs

 

[Mumbles]

Whoops, wrong choice, you're dead. Oh, and so is your mom, gang members kinda just spray bullets.

Then clearly police are not worse than gangs

No, they usually are, but you chose the "snitch to the cops option", and now the gang members *will* come after you.

The rules were very clear on that one.

 

[barbos]

Then clearly police are not worse than gangs

No, they usually are, but you chose the "snitch to the cops option", and now the gang members *will* come after you.

The rules were very clear on that one.

It seems key problem here are gangs. Take them away and everything will be fine. I can understand being afraid but I can't understand actively taking the side of gangs as opposed to police.

 

[Mumbles]

No, they usually are, but you chose the "snitch to the cops option", and now the gang members *will* come after you.

The rules were very clear on that one.

It seems key problem here are gangs. Take them away and everything will be fine.

Not an option. As in, there's no possible way for you to accomplish this, given our current policing.

I can understand being afraid but I can't understand actively taking the side of gangs as opposed to police.

And that's why you were killed.