Too Much Policing in Black Neighborhoods

[barbos]

Why would rich white kid be distributing it?

Maybe he's a Republican pulling himself up by his own bootstraps!

Nah, too lazy for that.

 

[barbos]

I presume they call their friends in the hood.

Yeah, and they will end up catching a bunch of black guys.

Even if we assume that your statistics is not bullcrap that still does not mean that police actively ignores white kids smoking pot. It could mean that black kids are easier to catch.

At this point, again, you're simply ignoring the evidence. We know that the police target black people because of a wealth of studies, DOJ findings, and in many cases policy, stating so.

I am not ignoring it, I am merely doubting it.

And the point, of course, is that there's no point grinding people's life down because they wanted to smoke pot, regardless of skin color or income. It's a dumb law, enforced sadistically.

I reluctantly agree if we talk about marijuana but disagree if it is hard drugs.

Well, you're just a regular Paul LePage, aren't ya?

This is the equivalent of flat-earth theory, so I think we're done.

Yes, you are not gonna convince me that earth is flat.

 

[laughing dog]

There isn't really much the police can do to protect you.

Um, the police ought to be able to protect you from themselves.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How exactly is that fantasyland? Certainly we know that black people are more likely to be arrested for drugs at a disproportionate rate to overall consumption of drugs. Individuals from low income families are also more likely to have poor representation (i.e. overworked public defenders) and people admitting guilt in plea bargains even when they're innocent is an absolute reality.

Black people are more likely to be arrested for drugs because street dealing is easier to bust than dealing behind closed doors. What you are seeing as racist is actually economic.

There's also the issue that the greatest harm from drugs is not the drugs themselves but the crime to get the money for drugs--and thus drugs in poor neighborhoods cause more harm than drugs in rich neighborhoods. It would be proper for the police efforts to be focused there.

- - - Updated - - -

Even if it were true, how does it excuse breaking the law? And drug arrests are for drug distribution not for drug use.

Even if? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

There are plenty of arrests for possession. And the excusal of breaking the law is for all the Wall Street guys I'd see in Downtown NYC not getting stopped and frisked even though they had coke in their pockets. I've walked through Midtown and the West Village with white friends that lived there for their entire lives, who always have a giant bag of pot in their pockets, and have never once been stopped by a cop. Now I wonder how that compare to the average resident of the Bronx or Harlem?

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/...achr_racial_disparities_aclu_submission_0.pdf

Are you aware that most "possession" convictions are plea-bargains from more serious charges, usually distribution?

 

[Deepak]

Do you have some credible stats to back that up, or is that just like your opinion man?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And the cops could break into the distribution chains in upper-class neighborhoods as easy as pie if they wanted to - particularly if they were as wildly aggressive as they are against young black men in doing so.

And how do you suggest they do so? It's behind closed doors and you normally don't get in without being vouched for by somebody.

Realistically, upper class drugs are only caught when a user gets caught for something else and gives up those he knows in order to lessen his own charges. (And this is a bad thing--the end result tends to be the worst punishments falling on those who are only minimally involved because they don't have anyone to give up.)

Even if we assume that your statistics is not bullcrap that still does not mean that police actively ignores white kids smoking pot. It could mean that black kids are easier to catch.

At this point, again, you're simply ignoring the evidence. We know that the police target black people because of a wealth of studies, DOJ findings, and in many cases policy, stating so.

We aren't ignoring the evidence. We see that the DOJ is spouting bullshit. Almost all the evidence points to the well known pattern that it's easier to bust the poor.

Consider one simple thing: The poor normally do not have private outdoor space. Thus they smoke in their residence or they smoke where someone can see them.

We're middle class. If I chose my location with a modicum of care not even the neighbors with two-story houses could see me (admittedly, our yard offers more privacy than average as it's full of fruit trees.) Growing up it was all single-story houses, you could only be seen by someone looking over the fence and about 3/4 of that fence had vegetation high enough to preclude that. Under the grapefruit tree you couldn't be seen from anywhere outside the tree and in the entire eastern half of the yard the only people that could possibly see you would be the neighbors to the west looking over a narrow unblocked part of the fence.

And the point, of course, is that there's no point grinding people's life down because they wanted to smoke pot, regardless of skin color or income. It's a dumb law, enforced sadistically.

That I will agree with. The drug laws are a big problem.

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There isn't really much the police can do to protect you.

Um, the police ought to be able to protect you from themselves.

And you ought to be able to post something on topic.

The relevant issue was a witness who talked to the cops getting murdered.

 

[laughing dog]

And you ought to be able to post something on topic.

You ought to try your on advice sometime.

The relevant issue was a witness who talked to the cops getting murdered.

As usual, you are wrong. The relevant topic is the OP is too much policing in black neighborhoods.

 

[Mumbles]

You ought to try your on advice sometime.

The relevant issue was a witness who talked to the cops getting murdered.

As usual, you are wrong. The relevant topic is the OP is too much policing in black neighborhoods.

Actually, I'd say it's far too much low-level policing, harassment, and assault, and nowhere near enough emphasis on high-end policing.

 

[Trausti]

You ought to try your on advice sometime.
As usual, you are wrong. The relevant topic is the OP is too much policing in black neighborhoods.

Actually, I'd say it's far too much low-level policing, harassment, and assault, and nowhere near enough emphasis on high-end policing.

What sort of policing would you propose to diminish/end the high homicide and attempted murder rates in black neighborhoods?

 

[Trausti]

The problem is you have this fantasyland image where the criminal behavior stems from the cop's behavior and think you can solve it by curtailing the cops.

+1. Focusing on the cop's behavior does nothing to mitigate homicide and attempted murder. If anything, the law abiding people in these neighborhoods want more policing to "clear the corners." But they're silenced by the blame the cops first victim cult.

 

[Trausti]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/04/chicago-gun-violence-unsolved-murders-deadly-year

With the continued righteous efforts of Black Lives Matter, we can get that 4% to 0%.

So you think all the killers are black?

Not all but the overwhelming majority. Didn't realize that was in question.

http://home.chicagopolice.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/2011-Murder-Report.pdf

And these statistics should be viewed in light of the fact that, based on the article in the OP, most homicide and attempted murders are not cleared; meaning, they're not included in the statistics. But what is known that the two, predominately black, neighborhoods in Chicago account for the majority of the city's homicides.

 

[untermensche]

Thanks for the map that shows racist redlining.

Carefully constructed pockets of poverty within a racist society generally do have higher crime rates.

 

[Trausti]

Thanks for the map that shows racist redlining.

Carefully constructed pockets of poverty within a racist society generally do have higher crime rates.

What's really important is what happened 70 years ago. Nothing important has happened since.

 

[untermensche]

Thanks for the map that shows racist redlining.

Carefully constructed pockets of poverty within a racist society generally do have higher crime rates.

What's really important is what happened 70 years ago. Nothing important has happened since.

Racial (the human mental conception) redlining has gone on non-stop over the past 70 years. It is going on right now.

 

[Trausti]

What's really important is what happened 70 years ago. Nothing important has happened since.

Racial (the human mental conception) redlining has gone on non-stop over the past 70 years. It is going on right now.

When I see silly excuses like this, I think of the European Jews who spent more than a millennia facing prejudice and "red lining," i.e., ghettos.

This was the Juddengasse in Frankfurt:

Jews were restricted on what they could wear, what jobs they could do, and can could only leave the Judengasse with permission. Yet, within one, or even less than one, generation of emancipation, they became highly successful. The Rothschilds used to live in the the Frankfort Judengasse, btw. Nathan Rothschild was born there, but died the richest man in England.

Pointing to decades-passed red lining is just a flavor of the bigotry of low expectations. They're black people; you shouldn't hold them up to the same standard as everyone else.

 

[untermensche]

Are Jews now a "race"?

 

[Trausti]

Are Jews now a "race"?

Oh, FFS. You're really not aware the the Jews were persecuted in Europe for hundreds of years? Fucking wow.

 

[laughing dog]

Racial (the human mental conception) redlining has gone on non-stop over the past 70 years. It is going on right now.

When I see silly excuses like this, I think of the European Jews who spent more than a millennia facing prejudice and "red lining," i.e., ghettos.

This was the Juddengasse in Frankfurt:

Jews were restricted on what they could wear, what jobs they could do, and can could only leave the Judengasse with permission. Yet, within one, or even less than one, generation of emancipation, they became highly successful. The Rothschilds used to live in the the Frankfort Judengasse, btw. Nathan Rothschild was born there, but died the richest man in England.

Pointing to decades-passed red lining is just a flavor of the bigotry of low expectations. They're black people; you shouldn't hold them up to the same standard as everyone else.

The argument of "Well, the Jews overcame worse discrimination, so why can't black people?" is truly amazing.

 

[Trausti]

When I see silly excuses like this, I think of the European Jews who spent more than a millennia facing prejudice and "red lining," i.e., ghettos.

This was the Juddengasse in Frankfurt:

Jews were restricted on what they could wear, what jobs they could do, and can could only leave the Judengasse with permission. Yet, within one, or even less than one, generation of emancipation, they became highly successful. The Rothschilds used to live in the the Frankfort Judengasse, btw. Nathan Rothschild was born there, but died the richest man in England.

Pointing to decades-passed red lining is just a flavor of the bigotry of low expectations. They're black people; you shouldn't hold them up to the same standard as everyone else.

The argument of "Well, the Jews overcame worse discrimination, so why can't black people?" is truly amazing.

The argument that black people lack independent agency is even more amazing. Hey young black male! Something bad happened to someone who looked like you long before you were born! Therefore, every unfortunate thing that happens to you is someone else's fault; you shouldn't even try!

When you obsess on a past you didn't experience as the reason for your misfortune, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[laughing dog]

The argument of "Well, the Jews overcame worse discrimination, so why can't black people?" is truly amazing.

The argument that black people lack independent agency is even more amazing. Hey young black male! Something bad happened to someone who looked like you long before you were born! Therefore, every unfortunate thing that happens to you is someone else's fault; you shouldn't even try!

Intelligent discussion excludes trying to hide your morally disgusting argument of "Why can't black people overcome discrimination when the Jews did and they had it worse" with babbling straw men.