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vp debate, thriller in vanilla 2016

RavenSky said:
ZiprHead said:
Congratulations to Mike Pence on being declared the winner by the RNC.
https://mobile.twitter.com/aseitzwald/status/783447257790222340
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90 minutes before the debate even started :hysterical: Saw that on Twitter, too :D
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Some people claim they can predict the future.

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blastula said:
They're both coming off obnoxious, but Kaine is being the main interrupter tonight, because I guess he thought it worked so well for Trump.
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When 2 obnoxious people debate then both are obnoxious. That quote can go onto a Chinese fortune cookie.
 
If I were an American I would have difficulty finding which is the least desireable party (including smaller ones). Anyway I though the least terrible candidate was John Bachtell of the Communist Party USA but then I noticed he's not standing.

The good news for Hilary Clinton, is he is voting for her. I'm sure a few people with pillowcases on their heads will vote for Trump.
 
whichphilosophy said:
If I were an American I would have difficulty finding which is the least desireable party (including smaller ones). Anyway I though the least terrible candidate was John Bachtell of the Communist Party USA but then I noticed he's not standing.

The good news for Hilary Clinton, is he is voting for her. I'm sure a few people with pillowcases on their heads will vote for Trump.
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I love these type of passive aggressive posts in the morning.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
whichphilosophy said:
If I were an American I would have difficulty finding which is the least desireable party (including smaller ones). Anyway I though the least terrible candidate was John Bachtell of the Communist Party USA but then I noticed he's not standing.

The good news for Hilary Clinton, is he is voting for her. I'm sure a few people with pillowcases on their heads will vote for Trump.
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I love these type of passive aggressive posts in the morning.
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:)
 
Didn't like the interrupting by Kaine, though it seems it was a calculated deliberate plan. Maybe it bought some focus on Trump's bad policies.

Didn't like the time overruns by Pence, apparently unable to help himself.

HATED Kaine's mansplainin moment "This is important, Elaine."

It was effective for everyone to notice that Pence had no defense for Trump's comments and tried to distance himself all night. (Could have been done without interrupting)

Loved the abortion question. Got that out on the table. Along with Pence/Trump lies trying to hide their extremism.

Moderator needed a big voice and a steely glare. Hope she can grow one, she'd be good once she had that. She had good questions, I thought.

Both spoke only to their bases, really. No minds would have been changed last night. But as one commentator put it, "if the objective is to fire up the base and GOTV, they may have accomplished something useful."
 
Looked to me like Pence couldn't care less about getting Trump elected. He was positioning HIMSELF for a 2020 run.
 
I didn't watch the debate, I don't hear well and usually can't follow live shows on the television. I did read a transcript of the debate. Based on the transcript Pence came off much better but for a future race in which he runs for a higher office himself on a much more traditional movement conservative/neoliberal platform. He seemed to largely disagree with Trump on policy.

Kaine did better when he stuck to policy, his attempts to get Pense to defend Trump's statements and apparent policies were deflected by Pence, who defended Trump only in broad terms, i.e. calling Trump "thoughtful, compassionate, and steady," none of which Trump is even close to being. Kaine seemed to rely too much on memorized and often repeated talking points, a strange device for an experienced litigator to use.

What the hell is the "war on coal" that Pence repeated many times. And his "You whipped out that Mexican thing again" has to be my favorite line in the whole debate.

Relying on the transcript eliminates the optics of the debate. Those include the demeanor of the debaters, the eyes rolling, the scoffing, the head shaking and it now has to be added, the sniffling. I suspect that Pence came out on top with the optics as well. Kaine was interrupting Pence much more frequently than Pence was interrupting Kaine. Kaine came across as frustrated much more frequently. I assume that most people rely more on the optics than the policy.
 
The "war on coal" is dog whistle politics for effective policies to reduce the emissions of CO2.
 
laughing dog said:
Kaine did come across frustrated. Pence would simply outright lie or change the subject. While I think each probably elevated themselves in the eyes of their partisans, I was unimpressed with both candidates.
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I don't think that most people concern themselves with this debate or the vice presidency itself. Especially when the presidential race is providing such a good show.
 
I was totally impressed by Kaine. And that's from someone who was totally dismayed by Hillary choosing him over Warren. I thought for sure he was wimpy, shallow, and non-confrontational. What a surprise! I had watched the profiles on the two done by C-SPAN from their Archive videos and I wasn't impressed with Kaine, but actually thought Pence spoke with authority and had leadership potential. The debate reversed those opinions. Kaine was assertive, smart, empathetic, and expressed considerably more knowledge of world politics and the fight against terrorism than Pence. His responses were always sharp, to the point and well organized. He was much more engaged and positive in the discussion than Pence. While definitely more prepared and rehearsed than Pence he was also more in the moment, constantly looking either at the moderator or Pence while actively listening. Pence tried for canned responses every time and was usually looking at the floor while he spoke.

All in all, I thought it was more like a real debate than just about any I've seen. Early on it seemed like the moderator lost control with all three talking at once. But then one of them said "I thought this was supposed to be a discussion" and it settled into just that. They were then both allowed to interrupt each other within limits and I thought it was a fair contest. And Kaine definitely dominated. Pence turned out to be a pretty weak debater. But then he was hobbled by the specter of Trump's self-incriminating statements. I kind of wish that one of the Presidential debates would have the same format, except I don't think Hillary could do as well as Kaine. But then she has to deal with the Joker himself.
 
ElectEngr said:
SimpleDon said:
And his "You whipped out that Mexican thing again" has to be my favorite line in the whole debate.
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Reminiscent of Reagan's, "Well, there he goes, again" from the 1980 debate.

Later,
ElectEngr
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People point out that Trump is nothing but a showman, e.g.commenting on the debate television ratings, a classic example of an unimportant metric in the whole scheme of things. But of course, the original showman in this position was Reagan, who was great optics but was arguably the worse president of the 20th century. So many of today's problems can be traced back to the Reagan administration, terrorism, income inequality, homelessness, the growing national debt, the explosion of money in politics, the greed is good meme, the needless death from AID's of so many, the benign neglect of the poor, the demonization of the poor, welfare mothers driving Cadillacs, the breaking of the unions, the deterioration of the infrastructure, the demonizing of teachers to try to break their unions, the demonizing of the schools in general to try to provide public money to segregation academies, the result being the entire education system being called into question, a system that has done a superb job teaching our children, and probably a few more that I can't remember off of the top of my head.

I am also an Electrical Engineer, I worked for a German heavy industrial machinery supplier and contractor doing everything electrical required, control, automation, instrumentation, power distribution all from the proposal phase to design and commissioning and start up. I finally sold out and went into management, a higher paycheck and the opportunity to reach my Peter Principle first level of total incompetence, but not nearly as much fun.
 
Treedbear said:
I was totally impressed by Kaine. And that's from someone who was totally dismayed by Hillary choosing him over Warren. I thought for sure he was wimpy, shallow, and non-confrontational. What a surprise! I had watched the profiles on the two done by C-SPAN from their Archive videos and I wasn't impressed with Kaine, but actually thought Pence spoke with authority and had leadership potential. The debate reversed those opinions. Kaine was assertive, smart, empathetic, and expressed considerably more knowledge of world politics and the fight against terrorism than Pence. His responses were always sharp, to the point and well organized. He was much more engaged and positive in the discussion than Pence. While definitely more prepared and rehearsed than Pence he was also more in the moment, constantly looking either at the moderator or Pence while actively listening. Pence tried for canned responses every time and was usually looking at the floor while he spoke.

All in all, I thought it was more like a real debate than just about any I've seen. Early on it seemed like the moderator lost control with all three talking at once. But then one of them said "I thought this was supposed to be a discussion" and it settled into just that. They were then both allowed to interrupt each other within limits and I thought it was a fair contest. And Kaine definitely dominated. Pence turned out to be a pretty weak debater. But then he was hobbled by the specter of Trump's self-incriminating statements. I kind of wish that one of the Presidential debates would have the same format, except I don't think Hillary could do as well as Kaine. But then she has to deal with the Joker himself.
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Largely agree... the only lasting fallout from that "debate" will be the soundbytes of Kaine saying "Trump said "X"" and Pence looking down, shaking his head, then the clip of Trump saying "X".
And Pence was trying to look presidential himself rather than defending his running mate. He could be a force in 2020.
 
I thought Pence accusing the Hillary campaign of running one that was "insult driven" was particularly bad. Fortunately, someone besides myself noticed THIS last night.
 
braces_for_impact said:
I thought Pence accusing the Hillary campaign of running one that was "insult driven" was particularly bad. Fortunately, someone besides myself noticed THIS last night.
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Never admit reality, that would be a concession. Only weak people make concessions!
 
braces_for_impact said:
I thought Pence accusing the Hillary campaign of running one that was "insult driven" was particularly bad. Fortunately, someone besides myself noticed THIS last night.
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Much lost opportunity... I think that at some point, the parroted republican talking-point about "failed Obama economic policies" needs to be countered with the facts of the economy when Obama took office vs where it is now. Maybe that's considered too much dry statistical shit for the average voter to grasp.
 
Saw this on FB. Shocking...

Pence-Bond.jpg

I didn't know that Big Mike had starred in a James Bond film.
 
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