• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

Here comes Oscar politics again

ronburgundy

Contributor
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Messages
5,757
Location
Whale's Vagina
Basic Beliefs
Atheist/Scientist
So, Oscar nominations came out today. The biggest complaint out there seems to be Hollywood's self-infatuation in giving 14 nominations to the mediocre musical that is La La Land, and some people complaining that Streep got yet another nomination for a film no one really cares about.

But with 6 of the 20 Oscar nominations for acting going to black actors, comments sections are filling up with Trumpanzee snowflakes screaming that Hollywood liberals caved to last years Oscarssowhite meme.

Yes, it is about 5 times the annual average number of black nominees that would be expected, if race played no role in who was nominated from among the actors in films that would plausibly be under any consideration. (I'll get to that math later).

Coincidence? Probably not, but the connection need not be direct. Racial issues have been at the forefront of social discourse. So, more writers than usual have been searching out race-related stories, and studios know they can sell such movies. So, more compelling dramatic roles were created in films the studios were willing to give strong backing to and that essentially required black actors. Voila! You wind up with a large over-representation of blacks who are deserving of Oscar consideration.

But the right-wing SJWs are too stupid to grasp such complexities, so they are engaging in rants even dumber than the Oscarssowhite nonsense of last year that Chris Rock so hilariously and accurately skewered while still acknowledging the actual separate issue of few blacks being cast in quality roles.

So how is 6 nominations about 5 times what should be typical? While 13% of the population, blacks are far less than that in dramatic roles in feature films worthy of Oscar consideration by any reasonable standard. That's probably closer to half that (or 6%), which means race-neutral nominations of actors in such roles would produce and average of 1 black nominee out of 20, and thus 1 per year among the 20 leading and supporting actor nominations. That would guarantee some years and even sometimes consecutive years with no black nominees, offset by occasional years with more than 1. In the prior 15 years there have been 29 black acting nominations, which is close to double the number expected by a race-neutral nomination process.

So yeah, last years bleating about how white the Oscars are was nonsense refuted by objective statistical reality. If anything, once blacks do get cast in solid dramatic roles, they have greater odds than a white person in a similar role of being nominated. Altough, it is plausible that the seeming over-representation is because when blacks get such roles, it is often for characters facing racial obstacles, which increases empathy for the characters and empathy is likely a factor in how the performances are viewed. Regardless, there is definitely no indication that blacks who get roles worthy of consideration are any less likely to get nominated.

But the current bleating by Trumpanzees over these 6 of 20 nominations is equally nonsense which ignores the obvious reality that Hollywood creates films, stories, and characters that cater to trends in interests and topics, which culture-wide has included racial issues.
 
Whatever, Madea was robbed again.
 
These same people were also enraged that Bette Davis got the Academy Award for Dangerous because of all of the screaming and whining from snowflakes when she wasn't even nominated the previous year for Of Human Bondage.
 
So yeah, last years bleating about how white the Oscars are was nonsense refuted by objective statistical reality. If anything, once blacks do get cast in solid dramatic roles, they have greater odds than a white person in a similar role of being nominated. Altough, it is plausible that the seeming over-representation is because when blacks get such roles, it is often for characters facing racial obstacles, which increases empathy for the characters and empathy is likely a factor in how the performances are viewed. Regardless, there is definitely no indication that blacks who get roles worthy of consideration are any less likely to get nominated.
While racism is hardly a product of Hollywood, it took how long for Denzel Washington to win a Best Actor Oscar? And lets be fair, the Oscars have been rife with controversy for a long time. Rex Harrison winning over Peter Sellers (the greatest actor of all-time, and never won an Oscar) for his "singing" role in My Fair Lady? The huge Davis snub. Henry Fonda not winning an Oscar until the 80's!
 
Among the never nominated: Edward G. Robinson, Fred MacMurray, John Barrymore, Joseph Cotten.
And most people aren't aware of it, but Fred MacMurray was in films for over 40 years (1935 to late 1970's) and played some really good roles, with The Caine Mutiny coming straight to mind.
 
First rule about the oscars is don't give a shit about the oscars.
 
First rule about the oscars is don't give a shit about the oscars.

Until those elitists assholes are willing to recognize and reward the quality work going into the Sharknado series, the Academy is dead to me. :mad:
 
So yeah, last years bleating about how white the Oscars are was nonsense refuted by objective statistical reality. If anything, once blacks do get cast in solid dramatic roles, they have greater odds than a white person in a similar role of being nominated. Altough, it is plausible that the seeming over-representation is because when blacks get such roles, it is often for characters facing racial obstacles, which increases empathy for the characters and empathy is likely a factor in how the performances are viewed. Regardless, there is definitely no indication that blacks who get roles worthy of consideration are any less likely to get nominated.
While racism is hardly a product of Hollywood, it took how long for Denzel Washington to win a Best Actor Oscar? And lets be fair, the Oscars have been rife with controversy for a long time. Rex Harrison winning over Peter Sellers (the greatest actor of all-time, and never won an Oscar) for his "singing" role in My Fair Lady? The huge Davis snub. Henry Fonda not winning an Oscar until the 80's!

You're implying that Denzel Washington took a long time to get an Oscar because of racism, yet later you affirm that Fred McMurray (a whitey mcwhite if there ever was one) never got one for a much longer film career, despite being a good actor. Isn't it possible that Denzel was overlooked not because of racism, but because of the same or similar reason McMurray was (whatever that was)? You're pretty quick to play the race card there, it seems.
 
While racism is hardly a product of Hollywood, it took how long for Denzel Washington to win a Best Actor Oscar? And lets be fair, the Oscars have been rife with controversy for a long time. Rex Harrison winning over Peter Sellers (the greatest actor of all-time, and never won an Oscar) for his "singing" role in My Fair Lady? The huge Davis snub. Henry Fonda not winning an Oscar until the 80's!

You're implying that Denzel Washington took a long time to get an Oscar because of racism, yet later you affirm that Fred McMurray (a whitey mcwhite if there ever was one) never got one for a much longer film career, despite being a good actor. Isn't it possible that Denzel was overlooked not because of racism, but because of the same or similar reason McMurray was (whatever that was)? You're pretty quick to play the race card there, it seems.

Yeah, Denzel is about the least compelling example you could give. He has 8 nominations and 2 wins, with his first win was 27 years ago, at age 36 (not very old for a first Oscar) and a mere 9 years after his debut in his first feature film. 99.9% of white actors would kill for half the recognition the Academy has given Denzel.

I'm sure within Denzel's lifetime there was racism that led to great black actors being overlooked by the Oscars, but he is not one of them. Also, the point is that over the last couple of decades, there is no evidence of such a thing, and about 1 black nominee per year with some years having none is exactly what a race-neutral nomination process would produce.

If leftists would do a little math before claiming racism, then it would give less fodder for the racists to over-react to a year when blacks happen to get 30% of the nominations. The fact that clearly great white actors have never gotten an Oscar only adds to the evidence that what happens in a given year or for a specific actor means nothing about whether or how the voters are impacted by race. Their are countless idiosyncratic factors, personal grudges and biases that make the Oscars something that no reasonable person should care that much about or draw any political inferences from.

I don't raise the topic because the Oscars' themselves matter, but because it does matter when the public discourse is high-jacked by dogmatic ideologues who try to use something so meaningless as evidence for their agenda.
My hope is that by highlighting the mirror image stupidity and irrationality of one side over-reacting to last year and the other to this year, it will give people a little pause in the future before inferring or saying anything about the Oscars or any similar type of recognition ceremonies as reflecting racial biases of the powers that make such choices.
 
I don't raise the topic because the Oscars' themselves matter, but because it does matter when the public discourse is high-jacked by dogmatic ideologues who try to use something so meaningless as evidence for their agenda.
My hope is that by highlighting the mirror image stupidity and irrationality of one side over-reacting to last year and the other to this year, it will give people a little pause in the future before inferring or saying anything about the Oscars or any similar type of recognition ceremonies as reflecting racial biases of the powers that make such choices.
Why do you think " blacks are far less than that (i.e. their population share] in dramatic roles in feature films worthy of Oscar consideration by any reasonable standard"?
 
While racism is hardly a product of Hollywood, it took how long for Denzel Washington to win a Best Actor Oscar? And lets be fair, the Oscars have been rife with controversy for a long time. Rex Harrison winning over Peter Sellers (the greatest actor of all-time, and never won an Oscar) for his "singing" role in My Fair Lady? The huge Davis snub. Henry Fonda not winning an Oscar until the 80's!

You're implying that Denzel Washington took a long time to get an Oscar because of racism...
No I didn't.
...yet later you affirm that Fred McMurray (a whitey mcwhite if there ever was one) never got one for a much longer film career, despite being a good actor. Isn't it possible that Denzel was overlooked not because of racism, but because of the same or similar reason McMurray was (whatever that was)? You're pretty quick to play the race card there, it seems.
I never played the racism card.
 
You're implying that Denzel Washington took a long time to get an Oscar because of racism, yet later you affirm that Fred McMurray (a whitey mcwhite if there ever was one) never got one for a much longer film career, despite being a good actor. Isn't it possible that Denzel was overlooked not because of racism, but because of the same or similar reason McMurray was (whatever that was)? You're pretty quick to play the race card there, it seems.

Yeah, Denzel is about the least compelling example you could give. He has 8 nominations and 2 wins, with his first win was 27 years ago, at age 36 (not very old for a first Oscar) and a mere 9 years after his debut in his first feature film. 99.9% of white actors would kill for half the recognition the Academy has given Denzel.
He won it for Glory which was "one of those films" that does well with awards. It'd take until around 2001 to win a Best Actor award. He wasn't even nominated for Philadelphia. Al Pacino won for fucking Scent of a Woman over Denzel Washington in Malcom X. Though, to be fair, I think Robert Downey Jr. hit an absolute home run in Chaplin.

A black woman has been nominated 11 times for best actress, ever.

Since the turn of the millennium, black actors have done much better, but certainly in 2001, Washington was due an award.

Jesus, Scent of a Woman! Speak about a movie that hasn't survived time.

My hope is that by highlighting the mirror image stupidity and irrationality of one side over-reacting to last year and the other to this year, it will give people a little pause in the future before inferring or saying anything about the Oscars or any similar type of recognition ceremonies as reflecting racial biases of the powers that make such choices.
And I've noted, even among whites, there has always been controversy. That still doesn't mean even in the 80's and 90's, there wasn't that great of a cross section, racially. I mean Cosby wasn't even considered for a best actor in Ghost Dad... okay, that may not be the best example.
 
These same people were also enraged that Bette Davis got the Academy Award for Dangerous because of all of the screaming and whining from snowflakes when she wasn't even nominated the previous year for Of Human Bondage.

Anyone enraged at Bette Davis missing out on an Oscar is probably dead now.
 
ronburgundy said:
[E]mpathy is likely a factor in how [...] performances are viewed.

Just curious, what other similar descriptors (like empathy) are right up that alley? With shows like Dancing with the Stars and America's Got Talent, there are times when viewer participation in votes can alter the tallies that effect outcomes, and though "empathy" might be the right word, I wasn't sure. On America's Got Talent, an otherwise pretty good singer might have an objectively improved chance of winning from a high quality preceding introductory storyline alone, especially when the singer is cast as a struggling yet heroic member of the military. On Dancing with the Stars, an inferior dancer with superior fame and likability may procure additional score counting increasing votes.

Maybe the empathy for the character in the throws of a plot can garner better favoritism towards an otherwise lesser skilled actor. Maybe the shift can be better explained by the nature of the works than the worker.
 
Back
Top Bottom