Venezuela: la mierda hits el ventilador

[Axulus]

Maduro is Chavez's hand-picked successor. He contined Chavez's policies, and those policies would have failed just as well had Chavez lived a few years longer. Only thing Chavez had going for him was being slightly more charismatic than Maduro, but in terms of policies there is no difference whatsoever.

He also had an oil boom going for him, which masked the rot from within. It's not hard to be popular by spending massive amounts of oil wealth, and it is also easy to keep the cronies and military happy with that oil money as well.

 

[untermensche]

Maduro is Chavez's hand-picked successor. He contined Chavez's policies, and those policies would have failed just as well had Chavez lived a few years longer. Only thing Chavez would have going for him is being slightly more charismatic than Maduro, but in terms of policies there is no difference whatsoever.

Hand picked successors have been corrupt time and time again too.

None of this is about Chavez, except having bad judgement in picking a successor.

Revolutionary leaders should not pick successors anyway. But no way to stop them.

Chavez of course made mistakes. He was doing new things.

And he was opposed by the former ruling class of Venezuela every step of the way.

The ruling class that ran Venezuela as an apartheid state for decades.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That's right folks. Chavez did absolutely nothing to consolidate power in the executive and always cracked down on corruption within his own government. His economic policies also have zero to do with the supply shortages and hyperinflation. Nothing to see here, move along. And also, don't forget to drink your cup of Kool-Aid on your way out.

This has nothing to do with Chavez or any of his policies.

This is run-of-the-mill corruption. Human greed and theft.

We see it in capitalist nation after capitalist nation in the Western hemisphere.

Chavez tried to break the cycle in Venezuela.

But one man was not enough.

No, Chavez was part of the cycle. Such far-left policies are always about stealing from the people and giving to the cronies under the guise of reform.

- - - Updated - - -

Pull that wool off of your eyes! How can you possibly believe such myths in this day and age when information is so widespread?

http://images.eluniversal.com/2008/02/26/rodriguezdocumento.pdf

Chavez was attacked with absurd rubbish like this everyday he was in power.

The US orchestrated a coup that murdered protesters in the streets that was overturned by the people of Venezuela.

When Chavez died his revolution died with him unfortunately.

That has happened time and time again in human history.

You sound like a Trump supporter.

 

[dismal]

Maduro is Chavez's hand-picked successor. He contined Chavez's policies, and those policies would have failed just as well had Chavez lived a few years longer. Only thing Chavez would have going for him is being slightly more charismatic than Maduro, but in terms of policies there is no difference whatsoever.

In all the economics classes I took they never highlighted just how important "charisma" was to making economic policies succeed.

Who could have guessed it was "lack of charisma" that makes money printing cause inflation, that makes price floor cause shortages, and makes destroying the incentive to produce cause lack of production.

Each and every time they are tried.

 

[ZiprHead]

Venezuela quells 'paramilitary' attack at base; 2 dead

 

[LordKiran]

Venezuela quells 'paramilitary' attack at base; 2 dead

Ohhhhh this is good news...

 

[Derec]

Ohhhhh this is good news...

It would have been good news had the rebellion succeeded. If Maduro manages to entrench his regime and consolidate support by military, it will be really difficult to oust him.

 

[dismal]

Ohhhhh this is good news...

It would have been good news had the rebellion succeeded.

I'm sure even our leftist-friends-who-have-never-once-defended-this-guy agree with that since he's obviously not a *real*socialist. Even though they seem to agree with his policies.

 

[LordKiran]

It would have been good news had the rebellion succeeded.

I'm sure even our leftist-friends-who-have-never-once-defended-this-guy agree with that since he's obviously not a *real*socialist. Even though they seem to agree with his policies.

Not sure what socialism has to do with whether or not political leaders are authoritarian pricks.

 

[dismal]

I'm sure even our leftist-friends-who-have-never-once-defended-this-guy agree with that since he's obviously not a *real*socialist. Even though they seem to agree with his policies.

Not sure what socialism has to do with whether or not political leaders are authoritarian pricks.

Yet, who could have guessed that a system characterized by command and control over the economy would end up being led by authoritarian pricks. You know, other than that's the way it always ends up.

 

[iolo]

Just because your present comic turn keeps denouncing the media for not hailing him as God does not mean they keep you informed about foreign parts. All capitalist media lie, but with the US they can rely on a huge ignorance of the outside world and generations of brainwashing against what they call 'socialism', which seems to mean the capitalist state, particularly in misbehaving American colonies.

 

[untermensche]

It would have been good news had the rebellion succeeded.

I'm sure even our leftist-friends-who-have-never-once-defended-this-guy agree with that since he's obviously not a *real*socialist. Even though they seem to agree with his policies.

Bullshit.

What was defended was a transition of the pre-Chavez apartheid state of Venezuela to something where all citizens had equal opportunity, not just those with the proper heritage and ethnicity.

What right wing nut jobs, they are all crazy and live in a dream world, never once did was complain about the apartheid state that existed in Venezuela before Chavez and still exists to a degree.

That kind of injustice does not interest these nut jobs in the least.

One group preying and exploiting another based on ethnicity for decade after decade does not interest these champions of freedom at all.

Their knowledge of Venezuelan history begins with Chavez. They don't have a clue why he came to power.

 

[LordKiran]

Not sure what socialism has to do with whether or not political leaders are authoritarian pricks.

Yet, who could have guessed that a system characterized by command and control over the economy would end up being led by authoritarian pricks. You know, other than that's the way it always ends up.

Could you have? I mean maybe you could have, given your massive confirmation bias.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America–United_States_relations

 

[dismal]

Yet, who could have guessed that a system characterized by command and control over the economy would end up being led by authoritarian pricks. You know, other than that's the way it always ends up.

Could you have? I mean maybe you could have, given your massive confirmation bias.

It's not "confirmation bias" to note command and control economies have more command and control. And have historically led to authoritarianism.

What's the best example you have of a command and control economy that didn't lead to a Stalin, a Mao, a Kim Jung Il or Maduro?

 

[LordKiran]

Could you have? I mean maybe you could have, given your massive confirmation bias.

It's not "confirmation bias" to note command and control economies have more command and control. And have historically led to authoritarianism.

What's the best example you have of a command and control economy that didn't lead to a Stalin, a Mao, a Kim Jung Il or Maduro?

Your argument only works if we presuppose that socialism (defined strictly as a form of government in this case) is defined by the command and control of a few over everyone else, when I'm pretty sure that's not actually how its supposed to work. Socialism as a means of governance is in theory an extension of the commons and not much more than that.

 

[dismal]

It's not "confirmation bias" to note command and control economies have more command and control. And have historically led to authoritarianism.

What's the best example you have of a command and control economy that didn't lead to a Stalin, a Mao, a Kim Jung Il or Maduro?

Your argument only works if we presuppose that socialism (defined strictly as a form of government in this case) is defined by the command and control of a few over everyone else, when I'm pretty sure that's not actually how its supposed to work. Socialism as a means of governance is in theory an extension of the commons and not much more than that.

I'm not talking about your imaginary utopian socialism. I'm talking about actual countries. In the real world, more command and control over the economy correlates highly with authoritarianism.

 

[LordKiran]

Your argument only works if we presuppose that socialism (defined strictly as a form of government in this case) is defined by the command and control of a few over everyone else, when I'm pretty sure that's not actually how its supposed to work. Socialism as a means of governance is in theory an extension of the commons and not much more than that.

I'm not talking about your imaginary utopian socialism.

Neither am I. If it doesn't meet the definition though, why call it socialism other than because you have a personal unrelated axe to grind?

 

[dismal]

I'm not talking about your imaginary utopian socialism.

Neither am I. If it doesn't meet the definition though, why call it socialism other than because you have a personal unrelated axe to grind?

I have no particular need to call it "socialism". Venezuela's problem is obvious enough regardless of what you call it.

It's government control of the economy as opposed to allowing market forces to work.

You put the the military in charge of food you get corruption and shortages. Call it "socialism" or don't. The people suffer.

 

[iolo]

There is nothing utopian about wanting rule by the majority social class. You do not find such societies existing because the capitalist armies murder those who support them, as you very well know.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There is nothing utopian about wanting rule by the majority social class. You do not find such societies existing because the capitalist armies murder those who support them, as you very well know.

We call it utopian because is a dream world that can't actually exist.

What always happens is that such societies start out stealing from the rich but soon run out of rich to steal from and then they fall apart.