Moralistic Therapeutic Deism -- or Liberal Religion?

[lpetrich]

 Moralistic therapeutic deism was introduced by authors Christian Smith and Melinda Lundquist Denton in their book Soul Searching: The Religious and Spiritual Lives of American Teenagers (2005). Its tenets:

• A god exists who created and ordered the world and watches over human life on earth.
• God wants people to be good, nice, and fair to each other, as taught in the Bible and by most world religions.
• The central goal of life is to be happy and to feel good about oneself.
• God does not need to be particularly involved in one's life except when God is needed to resolve a problem.
• Good people go to heaven when they die.

The authors describe the system as being "about providing therapeutic benefits to its adherent" as opposed to being about things like "repentance from sin, of keeping the Sabbath, of living as a servant of a sovereign divine, of steadfastly saying one's prayers, of faithfully observing high holy days, of building character through suffering..." and further as "belief in a particular kind of God: one who exists, created the world, and defines our general moral order, but not one who is particularly personally involved in one's affairs--especially affairs in which one would prefer not to have God involved." ...

The authors believe that "a significant part of Christianity in the United States is actually only tenuously Christian in any sense that is seriously connected to the actual historical Christian tradition, but has rather substantially morphed into Christianity's misbegotten stepcousin, Christian Moralistic Therapeutic Deism."

However, many of these teens' elders likely subscribe to similar beliefs, however disappointing that might be to Mr. Smith and Ms. Denton.

Someone else annoyed by MTD is Adam Lee's guest blogger Leah. In You Call That Religion? she complains that the widespread acceptance of versions of MTD imply that atheists and the nonreligious in general are heartless and uncaring and unhelpful to others.

MTD may be common in the more liberal sects of Xianity and Judaism, and with doctrinal adaptations, various other religions. That may explain the more liberal ones' lame responses to the more conservative and fundie ones, even thought the latter often consider their beliefs grossly illegitimate. Such people may project MTD onto others' beliefs, even when such projection is grossly wrong.

I don't have enough direct experience to say, but Richard Carrier in From Taoist to Infidel describes something much like MTD in the church that he had been raised in:

My experiences with religion as a child were all good. My mother was a church secretary at a First Methodist Church only a block from our home, and I attended Sunday School fairly regularly, but my parents rarely insisted that I attend any sermons. The religion sold at this local business was a very liberal brand of Christianity. It was more like a preschool and social club, and that made it an excellent asset to the community, and a place of fond memories for me. Amidst arts and crafts, lunches, running and climbing about, and basic learning, the alphabet and numbers and whatnot, Sunday School had its story time. Bible stories were always on the menu, intermingled with other popular fables and parables, and it was never even suggested there was any difference. The Good Book was always treated as a collection of handy tales used as springboards for teaching moral lessons, not as a history book. Indeed, I was never once told that unbelievers go to hell or that I had to "believe on Christ" to be saved or anything like that. All good people went to heaven, so you'd better be good. That was it. Jesus in this version of Christianity was little more than a moral teacher. Being the Son of God made him an authority on the subject but had no other importance. Perhaps it was no accident that everyone who attended this church was very kind and jovial and all around just good folk.

I'm reminded of Greta Christina blogging on The "Pick Two" Game, Or, Do Believers Really Believe What They Say They Believe?

MTD seems much like her possibility of "omniscient and omnibenevolent but not omnipotent". God is like some very nice and smart mid-level bureaucrat, someone who knows about you and who cares about you, but who could not do very much for you even if he wanted to. She nominates the more liberal Xian sects.

Mr. Smith, Ms. Denton, and other such MTD critics seem to prefer "omnipotent and omniscient but not omnibenevolent". God is a cosmic autocrat; he demands strict and rigid obedience and following rules exactly while threatening eternal damnation for even small departures, and he sends natural disasters and conquering armies and the like to punish people. God is always right, but he is not really benevolent, which is why fundie talk about God's goodness often seems very forced and unconvincing. And some fundies don't even try.

The third possibility, "omnipotent and omnibenevolent but not omniscient", describes the more ritualistic sects, which seem to believe that it takes a lot of effort to get God's attention.

 

[sharon45]

A god exists who created and ordered the world and watches over human life on earth.

And if true, it did, and continues to do very bad work.

God wants people to be good, nice, and fair to each other, as taught in the Bible and by most world religions.

Again, if the god honestly wants this accomplished, then said god should have done a much better job of creating its so-called order of this planet, and it ought to definitely know enough to not have any relation with the Bible.

The central goal of life is to be happy and to feel good about oneself.

See above.

God does not need to be particularly involved in one's life except when God is needed to resolve a problem.

Uh, what excuse does this fiendish creature have for there even being problems in the first place? Let alone many of said problems' severe degree and magnitude.

Good people go to heaven when they die.

I have to presume that said awful god won't be there with them.

 

[Ramaraksha]

The Good Book was always treated as a collection of handy tales used as springboards for teaching moral lessons, not as a history book. Indeed, I was never once told that unbelievers go to hell or that I had to "believe on Christ" to be saved or anything like that. All good people went to heaven, so you'd better be good. That was it. Jesus in this version of Christianity was little more than a moral teacher. Being the Son of God made him an authority on the subject but had no other importance. Perhaps it was no accident that everyone who attended this church was very kind and jovial and all around just good folk.
Mr. Smith, Ms. Denton, and other such MTD critics seem to prefer "omnipotent and omniscient but not omnibenevolent". God is a cosmic autocrat; he demands strict and rigid obedience and following rules exactly while threatening eternal damnation for even small departures, and he sends natural disasters and conquering armies and the like to punish people. God is always right, but he is not really benevolent, which is why fundie talk about God's goodness often seems very forced and unconvincing. And some fundies don't even try.

I think going to heaven was intended as a treat - something we tell children - Santa will be nice to good boys - in a violent world where evil people dominated and good people suffered, that was a good rule - to make people do the right thing. One thing i have never understood is why even in the modern age no one ever questions what exactly does one DO all day in Heaven? Sit around staring at each other?

As for God being an autocrat - times were different then - Kings ruled - violently. These were not democratic times - Kings demanded absolute loyalty and obedience - their crown depended on it - the King rewarded his slaves/subjects accordingly and that was their template for God and his kingdom in the sky - way too many King references not to miss this

As for God being right all the time, again yes that was the life they had - if the ruler said X must die, even if X is a good guy he must die and if Y who is a rapist and cad, but the King likes him, you better like him as well. Master/Slave religions - Master is always right, if Master is wrong, see rule 1. The King held all the power, in his power lay safety and the possibility of a remotely good life and so the insistence that he is always right.

If you are living under someone who gave you a job and you are totally dependent on him, would you not come to his defense when he is attacked? Most people view God as their ticket to the easy good life in heaven, woe to anyone who attacks their God

 

[Jobar]

 Moralistic therapeutic deism was introduced by authors Christian Smith and Melinda Lundquist Denton in their book Soul Searching: The Religious and Spiritual Lives of American Teenagers (2005). Its tenets:

• A god exists who created and ordered the world and watches over human life on earth.
• God wants people to be good, nice, and fair to each other, as taught in the Bible and by most world religions.
• The central goal of life is to be happy and to feel good about oneself.
• God does not need to be particularly involved in one's life except when God is needed to resolve a problem.
• Good people go to heaven when they die.

The authors describe the system as being "about providing therapeutic benefits to its adherent" as opposed to being about things like "repentance from sin, of keeping the Sabbath, of living as a servant of a sovereign divine, of steadfastly saying one's prayers, of faithfully observing high holy days, of building character through suffering..." and further as "belief in a particular kind of God: one who exists, created the world, and defines our general moral order, but not one who is particularly personally involved in one's affairs--especially affairs in which one would prefer not to have God involved." ...

The authors believe that "a significant part of Christianity in the United States is actually only tenuously Christian in any sense that is seriously connected to the actual historical Christian tradition, but has rather substantially morphed into Christianity's misbegotten stepcousin, Christian Moralistic Therapeutic Deism."

However, many of these teens' elders likely subscribe to similar beliefs, however disappointing that might be to Mr. Smith and Ms. Denton.

Someone else annoyed by MTD is Adam Lee's guest blogger Leah. In You Call That Religion? she complains that the widespread acceptance of versions of MTD imply that atheists and the nonreligious in general are heartless and uncaring and unhelpful to others.

MTD may be common in the more liberal sects of Xianity and Judaism, and with doctrinal adaptations, various other religions. That may explain the more liberal ones' lame responses to the more conservative and fundie ones, even thought the latter often consider their beliefs grossly illegitimate. Such people may project MTD onto others' beliefs, even when such projection is grossly wrong.

I don't have enough direct experience to say, but Richard Carrier in From Taoist to Infidel describes something much like MTD in the church that he had been raised in:

My experiences with religion as a child were all good. My mother was a church secretary at a First Methodist Church only a block from our home, and I attended Sunday School fairly regularly, but my parents rarely insisted that I attend any sermons. The religion sold at this local business was a very liberal brand of Christianity. It was more like a preschool and social club, and that made it an excellent asset to the community, and a place of fond memories for me. Amidst arts and crafts, lunches, running and climbing about, and basic learning, the alphabet and numbers and whatnot, Sunday School had its story time. Bible stories were always on the menu, intermingled with other popular fables and parables, and it was never even suggested there was any difference. The Good Book was always treated as a collection of handy tales used as springboards for teaching moral lessons, not as a history book. Indeed, I was never once told that unbelievers go to hell or that I had to "believe on Christ" to be saved or anything like that. All good people went to heaven, so you'd better be good. That was it. Jesus in this version of Christianity was little more than a moral teacher. Being the Son of God made him an authority on the subject but had no other importance. Perhaps it was no accident that everyone who attended this church was very kind and jovial and all around just good folk.

I'm reminded of Greta Christina blogging on The "Pick Two" Game, Or, Do Believers Really Believe What They Say They Believe?

MTD seems much like her possibility of "omniscient and omnibenevolent but not omnipotent". God is like some very nice and smart mid-level bureaucrat, someone who knows about you and who cares about you, but who could not do very much for you even if he wanted to. She nominates the more liberal Xian sects.

Mr. Smith, Ms. Denton, and other such MTD critics seem to prefer "omnipotent and omniscient but not omnibenevolent". God is a cosmic autocrat; he demands strict and rigid obedience and following rules exactly while threatening eternal damnation for even small departures, and he sends natural disasters and conquering armies and the like to punish people. God is always right, but he is not really benevolent, which is why fundie talk about God's goodness often seems very forced and unconvincing. And some fundies don't even try.

The third possibility, "omnipotent and omnibenevolent but not omniscient", describes the more ritualistic sects, which seem to believe that it takes a lot of effort to get God's attention.

For many years I've tried to figure out ways to distinguish between and among the differing varieties of Christianity; fundamentalist, moderate, liberal, etc. There were many threads about it on Internet Infidels. But by golly, I do believe Greta Christina has come up with a better metric than anything else I've seen.

As to Heaven, and what's to do there-

"Just you think about it," said Crowley relentlessly. You know what eternity is? You know what eternity is? I mean, d'you know what eternity is? There's this big mountain, see, a mile high, at the end of the universe, and once every thousand years, there's this little bird-"
"What little bird?" said Aziraphale suspiciously.
"The little bird I'm talking about. And every thousand years-"
"The same bird every thousand years?"
Crowley hesitated. "Yeah," he said.
"Bloody ancient bird, then."
"Okay. And every thousand years this bird flies-"
"-limps-"
"-flies all the way to this mountain and sharpens it's beak-"
"Hold on. You can't do that. Between here and the end of the universe there's loads of-" The angel waved a hand expansively if a little unsteadily. "Loads of buggerall, dear boy."
"But it gets there anyway." Crowley persevered.
"How?"
"It doesn't matter!"
"It could use a space ship," said the angel.
Crowley subsided a bit. "Yeah," he said. "If you like. Anyway, this bird-"
"Only it is the end of the universe we're talking about," said Aziraphale. "So it'd have to be one of those spaceships where your descendants are the ones who get out at the other end. You have to tell your descendants, you say, When you get to the mountain, you've got to-" He hesitated. "What have they got to do?"
"Sharpen it's beak on the mountain," said Crowley. And then it flies back-"
"-in the space ship-"
"And after a thousand years it goes and does it all again," said Crowley quickly.
There was a moment of drunken silence.
"Seems a lot of effort just to sharpen a beak," mused Aziraphale.
"Listen," said Crowley urgently, "the point is that when the bird has worn the mountain down to nothing, right, then-"
Aziraphale opened his mouth. Crowley just knew he was going to make some point about the relative hardness of bird's beaks and granite mountains, and plunged on quickly.
"-then you still won't have finished watching The Sound of Music."
Aziraphale froze.
"And you'll enjoy it," Crowley said relentlessly. "You really will."
"My dear boy-"
"You won't have a choice."
"Listen-"
"Heaven has no taste."
"Now-"
"And not one single sushi restaurant."

-from Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett

 

[sharon45]

"Just you think about it," said Crowley relentlessly. You know what eternity is? You know what eternity is? I mean, d'you know what eternity is? There's this big mountain, see, a mile high, at the end of the universe, and once every thousand years, there's this little bird-"
"What little bird?" said Aziraphale suspiciously.
"The little bird I'm talking about. And every thousand years-"
"The same bird every thousand years?"
Crowley hesitated. "Yeah," he said.
"Bloody ancient bird, then."
"Okay. And every thousand years this bird flies-"
"-limps-"
"-flies all the way to this mountain and sharpens it's beak-"
"Hold on. You can't do that. Between here and the end of the universe there's loads of-" The angel waved a hand expansively if a little unsteadily. "Loads of buggerall, dear boy."
"But it gets there anyway." Crowley persevered.
"How?"
"It doesn't matter!"
"It could use a space ship," said the angel.
Crowley subsided a bit. "Yeah," he said. "If you like. Anyway, this bird-"
"Only it is the end of the universe we're talking about," said Aziraphale. "So it'd have to be one of those spaceships where your descendants are the ones who get out at the other end. You have to tell your descendants, you say, When you get to the mountain, you've got to-" He hesitated. "What have they got to do?"
"Sharpen it's beak on the mountain," said Crowley. And then it flies back-"
"-in the space ship-"
"And after a thousand years it goes and does it all again," said Crowley quickly.
There was a moment of drunken silence.
"Seems a lot of effort just to sharpen a beak," mused Aziraphale.
"Listen," said Crowley urgently, "the point is that when the bird has worn the mountain down to nothing, right, then-"
Aziraphale opened his mouth. Crowley just knew he was going to make some point about the relative hardness of bird's beaks and granite mountains, and plunged on quickly.
"-then you still won't have finished watching The Sound of Music."
Aziraphale froze.
"And you'll enjoy it," Crowley said relentlessly. "You really will."
"My dear boy-"
"You won't have a choice."
"Listen-"
"Heaven has no taste."
"Now-"
"And not one single sushi restaurant."

And these guys almost take an eternity to still not make a worthy point.

 

[lpetrich]

I must say that I like how freaked out CS and MLD are about liberal religion. They looked it much more closely than many other Xian conservatives seem to, and it got their goat in a big way. I suspect that they focus on teens rather than their elders because it might be very disquieting for them to learn that many fellow middle-aged people also believe in what they consider MTD.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I must say that I like how freaked out CS and MLD are about liberal religion. They looked it much more closely than many other Xian conservatives seem to, and it got their goat in a big way. I suspect that they focus on teens rather than their elders because it might be very disquieting for them to learn that many fellow middle-aged people also believe in what they consider MTD.

MTD is fundamentalism without the fundamentals - instinct influenced by intellect.

I would argue that MTD is a set of human behaviors that have been selected for. The arrival of this behavior set certainly predates any specific religion with its myriad gods and plots. And included in that behavior set is altruism, superstition and tribalism. I think the Princess Alice phenomenon illustrates this nicely.

So even though it appears today that belief in a "higher power" is something that evolved from classical religion proper I think it is the other way around, and as the world has shrunk it is expressing itself more strongly at the group level.

 

[steve_bank]

Aside from the negatives of organized religion, for the majority of Christians I've known religion improves the quality of life.

One person I knew said he could not get through the day without faith, he would be overwhelmed by questions and doubt. I think it is just that simple. It is not a matter of education, he had a degree.